Obama climate plan could cost $2 trillion

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  • Combat Ready
    Foot Soldier
    • Mar 2007
    • 572

    Obama climate plan could cost $2 trillion

    Wednesday, March 18, 2009

    UPDATED:

    President Obama's climate plan could cost industry close to $2 trillion, nearly three times the White House's initial estimate of the so-called "cap-and-trade" legislation, according to Senate staffers who were briefed by the White House.

    A top economic aide to Mr. Obama told a group of Senate staffers last month that the president's climate-change plan would surely raise more than the $646 billion over eight years the White House had estimated publicly, according to multiple a number of staffers who attended the briefing Feb. 26.

    "We all looked at each other like, 'Wow, that's a big number,'" said a top Republican staffer who attended the meeting along with between 50 and 60 other Democratic and Republican congressional aides.

    The plan seeks to reduce pollution by setting a limit on carbon emissions and allowing businesses and groups to buy allowances, although exact details have not been released.

    At the meeting, Jason Furman, a top Obama staffer, estimated that the president's cap-and-trade program could cost up to three times as much as the administration's early estimate of $646 billion over eight years. A study of an earlier cap-and-trade bill co-sponsored by Mr. Obama when he was a senator estimated the cost could top $366 billion a year by 2015.

    A White House official did not confirm the large estimate, saying only that Obama aides previously had noted that the $646 billion estimate was "conservative."

    "Any revenues in excess of the estimate would be rebated to vulnerable consumers, communities and businesses," the official said.

    The Obama administration has proposed using the majority of the money generated from a cap-and-trade plan to pay for its middle-class tax cuts, while using about $120 billion to invest in renewable-energy projects.

    Mr. Obama and congressional Democratic leaders have made passing a climate-change bill a top priority. But Republican leaders and moderate to conservative Democrats have cautioned against levying increased fees on businesses while the economy is still faltering.

    House Republican leaders blasted the costs in the new estimate.

    "The last thing we need is a massive tax increase in a recession, but reportedly that's what the White House is offering: up to $1.9 trillion in tax hikes on every single American who drives a car, turns on a light switch or buys a product made in the United States," said Michael Steel, a spokesman for House Minority Leader John A. Boehner. "And since this energy tax won't affect manufacturers in Mexico, India and China, it will do nothing but drive American jobs overseas."

    Washington Times - Obama climate plan could cost $2 trillion
  • LoungeMachine
    DIAMOND STATUS
    • Jul 2004
    • 32576

    #2
    Isn't having to spend tax money to clean up the air, water, and soil after polluters just another giant HIDDEN tax?

    What is wrong with making the industries who create these messes, pay to clean them up? All part of doing business.

    Can't afford to clean the mess?, then you shouldnt be allowed to profit from it.

    Originally posted by Kristy
    Dude, what in the fuck is wrong with you? I'm full of hate and I do drugs.
    Originally posted by cadaverdog
    I posted under aliases and I jerk off with a sock. Anything else to add?

    Comment

    • Combat Ready
      Foot Soldier
      • Mar 2007
      • 572

      #3
      Originally posted by LoungeMachine
      Isn't having to spend tax money to clean up the air, water, and soil after polluters just another giant HIDDEN tax?

      What is wrong with making the industries who create these messes, pay to clean them up? All part of doing business.

      Can't afford to clean the mess?, then you shouldnt be allowed to profit from it.

      Agree with your take in theory. Somehow, I think the little guy will be paying the bulk in the form of taxes. Another 2 trillion in tax is pretty brutal.

      Comment

      • LoungeMachine
        DIAMOND STATUS
        • Jul 2004
        • 32576

        #4
        Originally posted by Combat Ready
        Agree with your take in theory. Somehow, I think the little guy will be paying the bulk in the form of taxes. Another 2 trillion in tax is pretty brutal.
        Define "the little guy"

        I'm not buying it.

        Most polluters are large corporations, not the Ace Hardware store on Main St.

        Originally posted by Kristy
        Dude, what in the fuck is wrong with you? I'm full of hate and I do drugs.
        Originally posted by cadaverdog
        I posted under aliases and I jerk off with a sock. Anything else to add?

        Comment

        • Combat Ready
          Foot Soldier
          • Mar 2007
          • 572

          #5
          Originally posted by LoungeMachine
          Define "the little guy"

          I'm not buying it.

          Normal, everyday people like you and I. (maybe that was a bad example).

          I think the cost of doing business would be passed along in the form of higher prices.

          Comment

          • Nitro Express
            DIAMOND STATUS
            • Aug 2004
            • 32942

            #6
            Originally posted by LoungeMachine
            Isn't having to spend tax money to clean up the air, water, and soil after polluters just another giant HIDDEN tax?

            What is wrong with making the industries who create these messes, pay to clean them up? All part of doing business.

            Can't afford to clean the mess?, then you shouldnt be allowed to profit from it.

            People are losing their jobs left and right and all this idiot does is raise taxes, rewards the people who caused the problems, and grows the government even more. Yes there is global warming because it's cyclical. It more because of more sun activity because duh, Mars and Saturn are warmer as well.
            No! You can't have the keys to the wine cellar!

            Comment

            • Nitro Express
              DIAMOND STATUS
              • Aug 2004
              • 32942

              #7
              Maybe Obama's plan to avoid pollution is to break everybody so we can afford gasoline or fuel to heat our homes. People living in third world conditions pollute less but is he going to tax our campfires with a carbon tax?
              No! You can't have the keys to the wine cellar!

              Comment

              • LoungeMachine
                DIAMOND STATUS
                • Jul 2004
                • 32576

                #8
                Originally posted by Combat Ready
                Normal, everyday people like you and I. (maybe that was a bad example).

                I think the cost of doing business would be passed along in the form of higher prices.
                Dont WE already pay for this cleanup?

                The market determines the price of goods and services, not the cost of doing business.

                BUT If buying a gallon of weed killer costs 50 cents more, because the company mixing the chemicals has to make sure their surroundings are protected, so what?

                Originally posted by Kristy
                Dude, what in the fuck is wrong with you? I'm full of hate and I do drugs.
                Originally posted by cadaverdog
                I posted under aliases and I jerk off with a sock. Anything else to add?

                Comment

                • LoungeMachine
                  DIAMOND STATUS
                  • Jul 2004
                  • 32576

                  #9
                  Originally posted by Nitro Express
                  People are losing their jobs left and right and all this idiot does is raise taxes, .
                  Really?

                  ALL he does is RAISE taxes?

                  Want to re-phrase that?

                  Originally posted by Kristy
                  Dude, what in the fuck is wrong with you? I'm full of hate and I do drugs.
                  Originally posted by cadaverdog
                  I posted under aliases and I jerk off with a sock. Anything else to add?

                  Comment

                  • WACF
                    Crazy Ass Mofo
                    • Jan 2004
                    • 2920

                    #10
                    Originally posted by LoungeMachine
                    Dont WE already pay for this cleanup?

                    The market determines the price of goods and services, not the cost of doing business.

                    BUT If buying a gallon of weed killer costs 50 cents more, because the company mixing the chemicals has to make sure their surroundings are protected, so what?

                    You are exactly right.

                    The problem is though...companies go overseas to avoid the rules.

                    Big t-shirt companies would rather do business in Bangladesh because the dye is unhealthy. They would rather not deal with the whiney labourers here that worry about health issues and a living wage.

                    I tried Ethical shopping....it's tough...so little is made in North America now...

                    Things have to change.

                    Comment

                    • LoungeMachine
                      DIAMOND STATUS
                      • Jul 2004
                      • 32576

                      #11
                      Originally posted by WACF
                      You are exactly right.

                      The problem is though...companies go overseas to avoid the rules.

                      .
                      Which is why we need stiff tariffs here.

                      If a t-shirt costs $2 to make in the US, but can be imported for $1, then a $1 tariff needs to be applied to take away that incentive.

                      We're already PAYING higher hidden prices/taxes.

                      The interest on the money we're borrowing from China is a [hidden] tax on the goods we import.

                      Originally posted by Kristy
                      Dude, what in the fuck is wrong with you? I'm full of hate and I do drugs.
                      Originally posted by cadaverdog
                      I posted under aliases and I jerk off with a sock. Anything else to add?

                      Comment

                      • Combat Ready
                        Foot Soldier
                        • Mar 2007
                        • 572

                        #12
                        Originally posted by LoungeMachine
                        Dont WE already pay for this cleanup?


                        Yes.

                        The cap and trade scheme will almost certainly result in even MORE being paid by us.

                        There are folks that have faith in the feds to administer such a program. I salute you and others for having that faith. I think the intentions are admirable.

                        I don't share that faith...That's all.

                        Comment

                        • WACF
                          Crazy Ass Mofo
                          • Jan 2004
                          • 2920

                          #13
                          Originally posted by Combat Ready
                          Yes.

                          The cap and trade scheme will almost certainly result in even MORE being paid by us.

                          There are folks that have faith in the feds to administer such a program. I salute you and others for having that faith. I think the intentions are admirable.

                          I don't share that faith...That's all.

                          Cap and trade...a bloody joke IMO.

                          The bigger you are...and the more money you have...you can continue to pollute.

                          When the polluter is an energy supplier....the cost will be passed on to the consumer.

                          I despise these twats that fly around preaching about pollution...then claiming they offset their carbon footprint with some cash.

                          Fuck them....I did not realize that cash to plant a tree or buy a credit made the jet engine more efficient.


                          The answer is research into Carbon capture and clean coal technolgoy.

                          This is part of what we are doing here...

                          SaskPower's CLEAN COAL™ Project


                          What makes this project different from other "clean coal" initiatives?
                          The SaskPower Clean Coal™ Project will extend the corporation's pulverized coal technology expertise with the newly developed OxyFuel™ process or post-combustion clean up technologies. The result - capture of over 90% of carbon dioxide (CO2) as well as capture and control of sulphur dioxide, nitrogen oxides, mercury and particulate matter leading to near zero emission status. The CO2 will be used for enhanced oil recovery or sequestered in deep saline aquifers.

                          Comment

                          • Baby's On Fire
                            Veteran
                            • May 2004
                            • 1747

                            #14
                            Originally posted by Nitro Express
                            People are losing their jobs left and right and all this idiot does is raise taxes, rewards the people who caused the problems, and grows the government even more. Yes there is global warming because it's cyclical. It more because of more sun activity because duh, Mars and Saturn are warmer as well.

                            More sun activity? I'm truly speechless.................Why do fools like you refuse to realize that massive gas emissions inside the atmosphere create warmer temps? That's why it's called the greenhouse effect.

                            Or maybe another sun appeared out of nowhere that only you know about.

                            Comment

                            • Combat Ready
                              Foot Soldier
                              • Mar 2007
                              • 572

                              #15
                              Originally posted by Baby's On Fire
                              I'm truly speechless.................
                              One can only hope.

                              Comment

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