Interesting counter argument to the Stimulus

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  • Big Train
    Full Member Status

    • Apr 2004
    • 4013

    Interesting counter argument to the Stimulus

    Gov. Sanford: Why We Don't Want 'Stimulus' - WSJ.com

    By Mark Sanford (R)
    Gov, South Carolina

    America's states are laboratories of democracy. They are both affected by, and relevant to, the larger national debate. What we've found in our own corner of the country is that carrying a substantial debt load limits our options when it comes to running government.

    A recent report by the American Legislative Exchange Council ranked us 47th worst in the nation for annual debt service as a percentage of tax revenue. Our state dedicates nearly 11% of its annual tax revenue to paying debt. On top of that, South Carolina has another $20 billion in unfunded, long-term political promises for pensions and other liabilities. The state budget has already been cut four times in recent months as the national economic downturn has impacted South Carolina and driven down tax revenue.

    President Barack Obama recently signed a "stimulus" bill that will spend about $2 billion through "programmatic means" in South Carolina. In other words, the federal government will put this money directly into existing funding formulas and programs such as Medicaid. But there is an additional $700 million that I as governor have influence over, and it is the disposition of this money that has drawn the national spotlight to South Carolina.

    Here's the background: Before the stimulus bill passed, I asked for states not to be bailed out. After it was signed into law, I said that a state bailout would create more problems than it solved, and that we shouldn't spend money we don't have. That debate was lost, so I looked for a reasonable middle ground. I asked the president for his support in using the $700 million to pay down state debt.

    If we're going to spend money we don't have at the federal level, it becomes all the more important that our state balance sheet is in good order -- particularly if this is a protracted downturn. But many people do not realize that the stimulus money runs out in 24 months -- at which point South Carolina will be forced to find a new source of funding to sustain the new level of spending, or to make sharp cuts. Sure, I could kick the can down the road; in two years, I'll be safely out of office. But it would be irresponsible.

    If South Carolina could use stimulus money to pay down debt, in two years we will be able to spend, cut taxes or invest even if the federal government can no longer provide more money -- not a remote possibility. In fact, paying debt related to education would free up over $162 million in debt service in the first two years and save roughly $125 million in interest payments over the next 13 years -- just as paying off a family's mortgage early frees up money for other uses.

    When you're in a hole, the first order of business is stop digging. South Carolina is in a hole, and it's not a shallow one. Spending stimulus money on ongoing programs would mean 10% of our entire state budget would be paid for with one-time federal funds -- the largest recorded level in state history.

    Also, spending stimulus money will delay needed state restructuring. General Motors recently found itself in a similar spot. It needs to be restructured if it is to prosper, but a federal bailout enabled it to put off hard decisions. Likewise, taking federal stimulus money will only postpone changes essential to South Carolina's prosperity. Though well-intended, it forestalls hard choices we must make.

    One of Mr. Obama's central campaign themes was his pledge to do away with politics of the past. In his inaugural address, he proclaimed "an end to the petty grievances and false promises, the recriminations and worn-out dogmas, that for far too long have strangled our politics."

    This idea connected with millions of voters, myself included. I've always believed ideas should rise and fall on their merits. In fact, I saw such historical significance in his candidacy and the change he spoke of that I published an op-ed on it before South Carolina's presidential primary last year. It was not an endorsement, but it did note the historic nature of his candidacy and the potential positive change in tone it represented. That potential may now be disappearing.

    Last week I reached out to the president, asking for a federal waiver from restrictions on stimulus money. I got a most unusual response. Before I even received an acknowledgment of the request from the White House, I got word that the Democratic National Committee was launching campaign-style TV attack-ads against me for making it.

    Is this the new brand of politics we were promised? Instead of engaging with me and other governors on the merits of our dissent, I am to be attacked in television ads? In the end, I just don't believe a problem created by too much debt will be solved by piling on more debt. This doesn't strike me as an unreasonable or extremist position.

    Nevertheless, the White House declined my request for a waiver yesterday afternoon. That's unfortunate. But in coming months we'll continue advancing the debate at the state level about the merits of debt repayment. The fact remains that while we'd all like to spend unlimited dollars on the very real needs that exist in our state, we must spend in the context of what is sustainable.
  • MUSICMANN
    Sniper
    • Apr 2004
    • 837

    #2
    South Carolina's Governor is gonna get educated by Lounge on this. America's states are not a Democracy but a constitutional Rupublic which fall's under Democracy in ordianary people's minds.

    He better watch out, and make sure he comes into this forum and explains himself to Lounge, or he will be told he is a moron or an idiot or something worse from the master of politics.

    And for God sake, the Governor better not use general refrences or he will be told by the master, he is a backpeddler, and how his little troll son is smarter in history and how elections work and all that bullshit to make himself seem more imortant than he really is.

    Shit, the Governor may even say something for Lounge to use for a new sig. Hell, he's using one of mine.

    Comment

    • Nickdfresh
      SUPER MODERATOR

      • Oct 2004
      • 49570

      #3
      I think that's the guy whose own state (Republicans included in the state house) is in a virtual uprising as he's putting his own bullshit presidential aspirations ahead of the state's that elected him...

      These are words of a pandering charlatan who never met a lobbyist he didn't like...

      Comment

      • Big Train
        Full Member Status

        • Apr 2004
        • 4013

        #4
        Maybe he is pandering, but the underlying logic really can't be argued with. It's painful cuts now and restructure for the future, or just wait a while and make it worse when those cuts come eventually.

        I'd rather our house gets in order sooner than later.

        Comment

        • LoungeMachine
          DIAMOND STATUS
          • Jul 2004
          • 32576

          #5
          Originally posted by MUSICMANN
          South Carolina's Governor is gonna get educated by Lounge on this. America's states are not a Democracy but a constitutional Rupublic which fall's under Democracy in ordianary people's minds.

          He better watch out, and make sure he comes into this forum and explains himself to Lounge, or he will be told he is a moron or an idiot or something worse from the master of politics.

          And for God sake, the Governor better not use general refrences or he will be told by the master, he is a backpeddler, and how his little troll son is smarter in history and how elections work and all that bullshit to make himself seem more imortant than he really is.

          Shit, the Governor may even say something for Lounge to use for a new sig. Hell, he's using one of mine.




          Still smarting from that beatdown I gave you yesterday, where I had to school you on the difference between a republic, and a democracy, and how the electoral college works? :D

          At least you learned something by coming here, even if you're still an ignorant jackass without the basic understanding of the US Government.



          RothArmy, educating morons since 1999
          Last edited by LoungeMachine; 03-22-2009, 03:53 PM.
          Originally posted by Kristy
          Dude, what in the fuck is wrong with you? I'm full of hate and I do drugs.
          Originally posted by cadaverdog
          I posted under aliases and I jerk off with a sock. Anything else to add?

          Comment

          • LoungeMachine
            DIAMOND STATUS
            • Jul 2004
            • 32576

            #6
            Originally posted by Big Train
            Gov. Sanford: Why We Don't Want 'Stimulus' - WSJ.com

            By Mark Sanford (R)
            Gov, South Carolina

            America's states are laboratories of democracy.



            Originally posted by MUSICMANN
            South Carolina's Governor is gonna get educated by Lounge on this. America's states are not a Democracy but a constitutional Rupublic which fall's under Democracy in ordianary people's minds.

            .
            Hey dipshit, can you read?

            He didn't call the US a democracy, moron. He said the states are laboratories of democracy

            And what the fuck is a "Rupublic" ?

            I know you're "ordianary", but please read and comprehend the posts before replying, you fucking dolt.

            Originally posted by Kristy
            Dude, what in the fuck is wrong with you? I'm full of hate and I do drugs.
            Originally posted by cadaverdog
            I posted under aliases and I jerk off with a sock. Anything else to add?

            Comment

            • MUSICMANN
              Sniper
              • Apr 2004
              • 837

              #7
              Originally posted by LoungeMachine
              Hey dipshit, can you read?

              He didn't call the US a democracy, moron. He said the states are laboratories of democracy

              And what the fuck is a "Rupublic" ?

              I know you're "ordianary", but please read and comprehend the posts before replying, you fucking dolt.



              No jackass, he said " America's States". That means The United States as a whole. Learn to fucking read, dipshit.

              Comment

              • LoungeMachine
                DIAMOND STATUS
                • Jul 2004
                • 32576

                #8


                God what a fucking idiot you are.

                Hey, did you Google "electoral college" yet to learn about how it's NOT one-man one-vote for POTUS/VPOTUS yet? :D



                I want to see proof you have even a GED.....
                Originally posted by Kristy
                Dude, what in the fuck is wrong with you? I'm full of hate and I do drugs.
                Originally posted by cadaverdog
                I posted under aliases and I jerk off with a sock. Anything else to add?

                Comment

                • LoungeMachine
                  DIAMOND STATUS
                  • Jul 2004
                  • 32576

                  #9
                  Originally posted by Big Train


                  By Mark Sanford (R)
                  Gov, South Carolina

                  America's states are laboratories of democracy. .
                  Hey MUZAKmann....

                  Notice he didn't say they ARE a democracy, but only "laboratories of"

                  That's because even though they practice the PRINCIPLES of democracy, they're NOT democratic. :D

                  That's because the Governor is brighter than you, and knows the difference.



                  pathetic, ignorant troll.
                  Originally posted by Kristy
                  Dude, what in the fuck is wrong with you? I'm full of hate and I do drugs.
                  Originally posted by cadaverdog
                  I posted under aliases and I jerk off with a sock. Anything else to add?

                  Comment

                  • MUSICMANN
                    Sniper
                    • Apr 2004
                    • 837

                    #10
                    Originally posted by LoungeMachine
                    Hey MUZAKmann....

                    Notice he didn't say they ARE a democracy, but only "laboratories of"

                    That's because even though they practice the PRINCIPLES of democracy, they're NOT democratic. :D

                    That's because the Governor is brighter than you, and knows the difference.



                    pathetic, ignorant troll.


                    Still, most regular people think that the US is a Democracy in which it is a Constitutional Republic, which is under the umbrella of Democracy.

                    It would take only you lima bean to try and twist people's words for your own pleasure. It is you that dwell in semantics in every word that people post.

                    You don't know me motherfucker from Adam. All i have ever posted was generalized opinions, which is easier to do, especially here, because almost all these threads are nothing more than either the right or left point of views. It was you who takes it upon yourself to be the dickless wonder, master politico in this forum.

                    You want another sig. Hey, LoungeMachine, go eat Dick.

                    Comment

                    • hideyoursheep
                      ROTH ARMY ELITE
                      • Jan 2007
                      • 6351

                      #11
                      Originally posted by MUSICMANN
                      South Carolina's Governor is gonna get educated by Lounge on this. America's states are not a Democracy but a constitutional Rupublic which fall's under Democracy in ordianary people's minds.

                      He better watch out, and make sure he comes into this forum and explains himself to Lounge, or he will be told he is a moron or an idiot or something worse from the master of politics.

                      And for God sake, the Governor better not use general refrences or he will be told by the master, he is a backpeddler, and how his little troll son is smarter in history and how elections work and all that bullshit to make himself seem more imortant than he really is.

                      Shit, the Governor may even say something for Lounge to use for a new sig. Hell, he's using one of mine.











                      <a href="http://photobucket.com/images/crying%20baby" target="_blank"><img src="http://i89.photobucket.com/albums/k207/peerless56/baby_crying_closeup.jpg" border="0" alt="cmn Pictures, Images and Photos"/></a>

                      Comment

                      • MUSICMANN
                        Sniper
                        • Apr 2004
                        • 837

                        #12
                        Originally posted by hideyoursheep
                        <a href="http://photobucket.com/images/crying&#37;20baby" target="_blank"><img src="http://i89.photobucket.com/albums/k207/peerless56/baby_crying_closeup.jpg" border="0" alt="cmn Pictures, Images and Photos"/></a>

                        Fuck you too. You don't know me either fuckwad. You, Lounge and Ford and a few others are no more than a bunch of assuming assholes.

                        You assume alot about people without even knowing anything about them. Just like yesterday. I mention that America is a democracy. Did i say America was a full democracy, no i didn't.

                        This is where fucktard lima bean stepped in and assumed that, showing how much of a retard he really is. I guess when, pick a president talks about spreading democracy to wherever in the world. He's a dumbass for not getting all semantic about it.

                        You fuckers are pathetic to be honest.

                        Comment

                        • FORD
                          ROTH ARMY MODERATOR

                          • Jan 2004
                          • 59657

                          #13
                          fucktard lima bean?

                          Is that anal retarded's cousin?
                          Eat Us And Smile

                          Cenk For America 2024!!

                          Justice Democrats


                          "If the American people had ever known the truth about what we (the BCE) have done to this nation, we would be chased down in the streets and lynched." - Poppy Bush, 1992

                          Comment

                          • LoungeMachine
                            DIAMOND STATUS
                            • Jul 2004
                            • 32576

                            #14
                            Originally posted by MUSICMANN

                            Fuck you too. You don't know me either fuckwad. You, Lounge and Ford and a few others are no more than a bunch of assuming assholes.

                            You assume alot about people without even knowing anything about them. .

                            Actually, we assume nothing. We don't know you, so we can only go by your posts, their content, and the way they are presented.

                            From that, we can only assume you're an idiot, with little to offer, and possess the IQ of a houseplant.





                            Originally posted by MUSICMANN

                            . I mention that America is a democracy. Did i say America was a full democracy, no i didn't.

                            .


                            LMMFAO

                            Yes, and I corrected you on your incorrect post.

                            full democracy? :D

                            Now this is your defense? :D

                            Third one so far....

                            Check my sig, you dont have to give details like that, remember?



                            Originally posted by MUSICMANN
                            You fuckers are pathetic to be honest.
                            :D

                            Thank you for your honesty. In all honesty, I can only say you're an ignorant, uneducated troll who doesn't know shit about his own country and how it is run.


                            You chose to derail this thread with your idiotic warning to the Governor [who knows more than you about democracy/republics] that I may call him out.

                            Wrong again, fuckstump. The Governor is right. And you can't even comprehend why.


                            The fact you're still whining about this, yet call us pathetic, is fucking hilarious!

                            Hey, have you checked this out yet?

                            Electoral college - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia





                            too easy....
                            Last edited by LoungeMachine; 03-22-2009, 06:56 PM.
                            Originally posted by Kristy
                            Dude, what in the fuck is wrong with you? I'm full of hate and I do drugs.
                            Originally posted by cadaverdog
                            I posted under aliases and I jerk off with a sock. Anything else to add?

                            Comment

                            • LoungeMachine
                              DIAMOND STATUS
                              • Jul 2004
                              • 32576

                              #15
                              Originally posted by MUSICMANN

                              This is where fucktard lima bean stepped in and assumed that, showing how much of a retard he really is. I guess when, pick a president talks about spreading democracy to wherever in the world. He's a dumbass for not getting all semantic about it.

                              .


                              Is this paragraph even in English? :D

                              Originally posted by Kristy
                              Dude, what in the fuck is wrong with you? I'm full of hate and I do drugs.
                              Originally posted by cadaverdog
                              I posted under aliases and I jerk off with a sock. Anything else to add?

                              Comment

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