Was it worth it?

[Nickdfresh]

Imagine?

I've owned one.

And $20 was $5 over blue book.

The Onion had a "story" on their iPod radionews network about "packaging two day-old Seabrings for $5000." Alternately funny and sad...

[Blaze]

If Monsanto or ADM failed, it would be the best thing possible for the entire planet. No more GMO's, no more High Fructose Corn Poison, and we could legalize hemp and get on with the business of more efficient biofuels, and growing REAL food again.

I miss real food. I hear rumors of it from time to time.

[hideyoursheep]

Hmm...

A 7.2 bil one shot deal that will keep taxpayers employed, hopefully long enough to pay that 7.2 back through future income taxes.

[Big Train]

It's not that simple. You have to look at what the alternative would have been. To let Chrysler fail would have had enormous implications to our economy - much, much worse than the $7.2 billion that was "lost". The snowball effect would have been devastating.

Keep in mind that it still might happen. Chrysler could fail in its efforts to restructure after bankruptcy. GM is an even bigger concern. If GM fails, we are all screwed.

It is that simple because I believe it will fail. All this looking for alternatives is fine, but the fundamentals of their business are still horrible and will take a lot longer than a quarter, or a year, or even five years. The snowball effect you speak of is still coming. While that may be bad for those employees, it is going to happen regardless.

I'd have much rather have seen that 7.2 billion go to helping the workers, retraining or funding a start up company with a clean balance sheet (say one run by the UAW). One that could afford to hire a number of those workers. I think the future of American vehicles is a number of smaller manufacturers who specialize. A rollup similar to GM could happen again in the future, but for right now all those brands need to be run separately and profitably.

This money was purely lost.

[hideyoursheep]

Quit your fuckin crying about money like it was yours to begin with, Big Pussy.

Sit there, watch it fly out the door, stew over it for a few minutes, then get back to work like the rest of the adult world.

[Big Train]

Quit your fuckin crying about money like it was yours to begin with, Big Pussy.

Sit there, watch it fly out the door, stew over it for a few minutes, then get back to work like the rest of the adult world.

This is why you don't have any Sheep. Whatever the government wants to do with it is fine. Take all you want, I don't care. Burden your kids with the bill, who the fuck cares right?

[hideyoursheep]

This is why you don't have any Sheep.

You're clueless. And will remain so. Unless you work for the IRS, it's none of your goddamn business where, how or how much I pay. It's not something I feel I need to share on any message board with some comb-over fuck stick showing a new found obsession with how the govt. recently decided how to spend our money, when you didn't say SHIT about the past 4 years you were a member here.

Whatever the government wants to do with it is fine.

How disingenuous of you. Because I didn't start 1/2 a dozen threads a day on the subject doesn't mean I'm not paying attention. Where were you during the first big handout of corporate welfare? I didn't see you whining when Bush did it?!
Not only that, Mr. Financial consultant, you didn't seem to be interested in ANYTHING leading up to this cluster fuck, although I'm sure you knew it was coming.

Take all you want, I don't care..?

Why should you? If you didn't mind the Treasury being robbed in the name of freedom for the past 8 years, why be upset over rewarding incompetent bankers and CEO's of failing auto companies? Call it an investment in Homeland Security.
You see, if so much wasn't wasted during those times, I doubt we would be having this little conversation, since the US might actually HAVE the money they've been handing out. Do you get the connection now, smartass?

Burden your kids with the bill, who the fuck cares right?

Fucking liar.

This isn't about burdening kids with you, it never has been.

I'd rather watch golf than read your shallow threads. You bore me to sleep.

*yawn*

Goodnight, jackass.

[hankster]

Hmmm, sounds to me like we have another Obama loving asswipe here who loves the fact that he's got something to whine about.

[hideyoursheep]

Looks to me like someone's hiding behind an alias.

C'mon out, Sally!

[Nickdfresh]

It is that simple because I believe it will fail. All this looking for alternatives is fine, but the fundamentals of their business are still horrible and will take a lot longer than a quarter, or a year, or even five years. The snowball effect you speak of is still coming. While that may be bad for those employees, it is going to happen regardless.

I'd have much rather have seen that 7.2 billion go to helping the workers, retraining or funding a start up company with a clean balance sheet (say one run by the UAW). One that could afford to hire a number of those workers. I think the future of American vehicles is a number of smaller manufacturers who specialize. A rollup similar to GM could happen again in the future, but for right now all those brands need to be run separately and profitably.

This money was purely lost.

Um, "smaller manufacturers who specialize?" Really? Actually, consolidation is the wave of the future, and I think the Fiat-Opel-Chrysler deal is a way to get some good Euro cars here as gas prices soar...

Chrysler will actually benefit by getting Euro exposure to the things that they do well: minivans and Jeep Rubicons (Wranglers/CBJs)

[Big Train]

Um, "smaller manufacturers who specialize?" Really? Actually, consolidation is the wave of the future, and I think the Fiat-Opel-Chrysler deal is a way to get some good Euro cars here as gas prices soar...

Chrysler will actually benefit by getting Euro exposure to the things that they do well: minivans and Jeep Rubicons (Wranglers/CBJs)

Yes Nick. As in a separately run Jeep, Hummer, GMC. I'm not saying there will not be auto groups still, but they may be structured differently to face the new reality. It's unlikely for example, Hummer, will sell anywhere near the volume they did in the mid-90's for quite some time. They will be a nice builder, whose balance sheet will likely be better as a spun off company.

Each one having less product lines and overall size. Essentially going back to the way they started. I'll bet it happens with Pontiac in the next five years.

[FORD]

Hummer should have never been considered a civilian vehicle in the first place. Never seen anybody driving one that didn't look like an absolute douchebag that was likely a living embodiment of the "compensation" theory.

[Big Train]

You're clueless. And will remain so. Unless you work for the IRS, it's none of your goddamn business where, how or how much I pay. It's not something I feel I need to share on any message board with some comb-over fuck stick showing a new found obsession with how the govt. recently decided how to spend our money, when you didn't say SHIT about the past 4 years you were a member here.

Wow, for a guy who likes to get personal, it's interesting that it bothers you when it goes the other way.

How disingenuous of you. Because I didn't start 1/2 a dozen threads a day on the subject doesn't mean I'm not paying attention. Where were you during the first big handout of corporate welfare? I didn't see you whining when Bush did it?!

Then you were not paying attention.

Not only that, Mr. Financial consultant, you didn't seem to be interested in ANYTHING leading up to this cluster fuck, although I'm sure you knew it was coming.

Well, I didn't lose as much as some people, but I did lose quite a bit. I never said I knew what was coming or how bad it was going to be. Nobody knew the extent of it. Nice try though.

Why should you? If you didn't mind the Treasury being robbed in the name of freedom for the past 8 years, why be upset over rewarding incompetent bankers and CEO's of failing auto companies? Call it an investment in Homeland Security.
You see, if so much wasn't wasted during those times, I doubt we would be having this little conversation, since the US might actually HAVE the money they've been handing out. Do you get the connection now, smartass?

Ah yes, the "George Bush" defense. The fact that so much was spent during that time somehow justifies spending ever more insane amounts now. If you don't have any money, the best solution is to spend even more money that you don't have. This is where we disagree.


Fucking liar.

This isn't about burdening kids with you, it never has been.

I'd rather watch golf than read your shallow threads. You bore me to sleep.

So do that and shut the fuck up.

*yawn*

Goodnight, jackass.

Sleep well fag.

[Guitar Shark]

It is that simple because I believe it will fail. All this looking for alternatives is fine, but the fundamentals of their business are still horrible and will take a lot longer than a quarter, or a year, or even five years. The snowball effect you speak of is still coming. While that may be bad for those employees, it is going to happen regardless.

I'd have much rather have seen that 7.2 billion go to helping the workers, retraining or funding a start up company with a clean balance sheet (say one run by the UAW). One that could afford to hire a number of those workers. I think the future of American vehicles is a number of smaller manufacturers who specialize. A rollup similar to GM could happen again in the future, but for right now all those brands need to be run separately and profitably.

This money was purely lost.

That's just stinkin' thinkin'.

I happen to be a bit more optimistic with regard to Chrysler. GM is going to be much more difficult.

[Big Train]

That's just stinkin' thinkin'.

I happen to be a bit more optimistic with regard to Chrysler. GM is going to be much more difficult.

Perhaps, but if the idea is to get to a positive outcome as soon as possible for all, workers and investors alike, it's the best route. If you could show me how the fundamentals of their business could be changed in short order that would justify the amounts being spent to keep it afloat and get it in the right direction, I'd be more inclined to agree.

I'd much rather see a national version of Tesla motors than trying to keep Hummer or Oldsmobile viable nationwide.