Memorial Day, 2009

[Seshmeister]

Our national anthem was a pub drinking song that later had a poem used as lyrics. So you have to sing the celebration of the slaughter of your own people? Nice.

It's specifically mentioned in a later verse noone sings any more but in any case I can't remember ever singing the British national anthem, I may have when I was under 10. Apart from the fact it's a miserable dirge 'God save the Queen' doesn't really work for me as an athiest republican.

When they used to play it at Scotland matches it must have confused the fuck out of the opposition. 80 000 people would sit in polite silence and then applaud the oppositions national anthem and then when their own started boo and scream abuse.

[Seshmeister]

Sesh's comments from last year on our "militaristic" culture resulted in me realizing how many American deaths we've sustained in supposed "defense" of a FOREIGN country....

World War II was basically a push.... While the Pacific campaign was clearly a result of Pearl Harbor, the European campaign for the US was a defense of our allies.... Ever wonder where your country would be today without American involvement, Sesh ??

Do you ever wonder where your country would be without Scotland?

No country music?

No KKK?

If General Wolf hadn't won the battle of Quebec then you would all be speaking French just now.

I'm a romantic so I like to think that only almost all wars are about money as opposed to all of them.

Britain only paid off the money we had to borrow from the US to fight the Nazis just a couple of years ago.

Where would we be? I don't know but I wouldn't advise you ever asking anyone from South or Central America that question. I don't think most Americans realise how incredibly unethical US foreign policy has been there. Back to WWII the US only joined the war after being attacked and Germany declaring war on you so don't lets pretend that it was about saving Jews or British. My best guess is that without the US Russsia would have won the war and Britain would have been an independant ableit socialist state. With most of Europe under the control of Russia and the Japanese running South East Asia I think the US would have been far poorer. Very few people to trade with and no great economic boost from the war sh would be in decline. The Russians would have been the only country with a space program as they would have got all the best German scientists. Apart from that who knows?

Anyhoo I get the impression this militarisation of the US culturally is relatively new and post WWII. I think ever since WWII and Eisenhower backs me on this, the 'defence' industry took over Washington. The rest of the Western nations use public spending on health and welfare as a means of power and control and for economic stability, in the US that same public sector spend is on an insanely huge military which can only be justified in an environment of regular foreign adventures and militaristic patriotism. And stuff.

[Va Beach VH Fan]

If General Wolf hadn't won the battle of Quebec then you would all be speaking French just now.

LMFAO.... Yeah right, France would be our Daddy, I got ya....

I do wonder sometimes though how much longer the US would have stayed out of the war in Europe had the Japanese not attacked Pearl Harbor....

[Seshmeister]

I think until about 1950.

[Seshmeister]

As ever don't get me wrong.

There was some incredible work done by American soldiers in WWII. There still is.

But this isn't ancient fucking Greece here where most of the guys stand there and vote whether to go to war or not and there are few enough people where a vote makes a difference statistically.

The 'we saved your ass' thing doesn't really stand up when you consider

1) You personally didn't do anything, so now we are in the choosing ancestors game. Did you rape a slave? I didn't think so..,

2) Most of the people that did fight had no choice, There was no war referendum. Whilst US politicians had a choice they chose not to get involved.

3) The people that made them do it did it for alterior motives,

4) It was economically advantagous for the US to join the war.

5) All of this was 70 years ago now. In the next 20 years there will be no one left alive who was involved even at a junior level.

6) For every German soldier killed by an American 10 were killed by a Russian.

[Dr. Love]

1) You personally didn't do anything, so now we are in the choosing ancestors game. Did you rape a slave? I didn't think so..,

That's hardly fair, I was never even given the opportunity.

[Va Beach VH Fan]

1) You personally didn't do anything, so now we are in the choosing ancestors game. Did you rape a slave? I didn't think so..,

Well, "I" didn't, but my grandfather died in the Netherlands in Dec. 1944, so it means a bit more to me....

[chefcraig]

As ever don't get me wrong.

There was some incredible work done by American soldiers in WWII. There still is.

But this isn't ancient fucking Greece here where most of the guys stand there and vote whether to go to war or not and there are few enough people where a vote makes a difference statistically.

The 'we saved your ass' thing doesn't really stand up when you consider

1) You personally didn't do anything, so now we are in the choosing ancestors game. Did you rape a slave? I didn't think so..,

2) Most of the people that did fight had no choice, There was no war referendum. Whilst US politicians had a choice they chose not to get involved.

3) The people that made them do it did it for alterior motives,

4) It was economically advantagous for the US to join the war.

5) All of this was 70 years ago now. In the next 20 years there will be no one left alive who was involved even at a junior level.

6) For every German soldier killed by an American 10 were killed by a Russian.

So, what is your big fucking point? The United States chooses to have a few days demarcated to those that served/died in the military. Wow, how offensive. To me, there should be more days honoring service folks. And yes, it's wonderful to sit back with a computer and come up with stats without ever having to serve to provide them. Swell, you keep doing that, friend. All I know is that my father and brother served their time, and came away with the scars for doing so. These "holidays" honor their memory.

So fuck you and your stats, you asshole. Me and my mom will be standing by a pair of flags this weekend. And both will be American, at half mast.

[Seshmeister]

Typical aggressive militaristic response.

[chefcraig]

Typical aggressive militaristic response.

Nah, to tell ya the truth I'd been in a cranky mood all afternoon. I get home, and not one but two messages on the answering machine, from scam/telemarketers wanting to speak to my deceased brother about contributions for some non-existent veterans fund. Wow, if these organizations were even half-way legitimate, wouldn't they know that he died 6 years ago?

[Seshmeister]

Sorry to hear that.

For a while I was on some sort of list were I got phoned all the time selling investment possibilities and eventually I lost it.

"Fuck off you cunt!"
"You can't speak to me like that!"
"Yes I can cunt, stop phoning me you fucking prick"
"How dare you!"
"Fuck you pal!"

This went on for a couple of minutes and I've never been phoned again. I think I've been put on some sort of dangerous nutcase list.

It was a win-win, I totally recommend it.

[Nitro Express]

The US didn't want to get involved in any of the european great wars. It got dragged into WWI (which my grandfather served in as a machine gunner) due to Americans getting killed on the Lusitania. The US didn't want to get into a fight with Hitler and the Brits gave us crap about not helping them. Roosevelt did the lend lease thing and then Pearl Harbor got us into it. I guess we should have just left after German surrendered and let Stalin take it all. We could have spent the money on the Marshall Plan here in the States.

[Nitro Express]

The cold war basically turned the US into a military economy. 60% of our budget is spent on the war machine. We don't make anything and we spend most our money on war as the government grabs more control. We used to make fun of the Soviets for having such a shit country and spending everything on weapons. Now we are turning into what we made fun of.

[Seshmeister]

I can't see any way out of it.

Maybe a really radical change to campaign funding. You would think that congressmen would hate spending 5 hours a day begging for money and having to kiss ass with the lobby groups.

[Nitro Express]

I can't see any way out of it.

Maybe a really radical change to campaign funding. You would think that congressmen would hate spending 5 hours a day begging for money and having to kiss ass with the lobby groups.

The citizens put up with it as long as they can be bought off but when the greed finally bites them in the ass, they wake up and the old game of bribes isn't going to fly anymore. The enrich the health insurance industry law and the BP oil spill mixed with a economic depression is the changing point. People are getting fed up.

It runs in cycles. A crash, recovery, comfort, passiveness, greed, and then another crash. Usually the crash involves a war but with modern weapons, none of the big boys are going to duke it out anymore with each other and we already have a war on two fronts going, so technology has changed the war dynamic. Also, people are more politically informed than they used to be due to internet communications. The old dogs who have been screwing humanity over the years are scratching their heads on this as well.

We are in uncharted territory. This November election should be interesting. Also another question is what does the world do about all this derivative debt? It's so huge none of it is going to be payed off. We are at a stage also that people don't trust the investment institutions and paper money worldwide is being devalued.

I mean we are in for some huge changes and we can either kill each other over an illusion or erase the debt and start the world economy off from a set point which means simply erasing debt worldwide and starting over. This is how huge the world wide financial fuck up is.