U.S. general calls for Afghan strategy shift

[Nickdfresh]

The War needs to be "won" --whatever the definition of victory is, which is actually probably some deal with partial elements of a dis-unified Taliban to form a coalition gov't distancing itself from anti-Western extremism.

That part of the world is completely fucked, and we need to sort of unfuck it a bit. If we don't, then you have the potential for a nuclear armed Pakistan going fundamentalist, and pipeline of drugs, and an ongoing culture of killing people for a paycheck and the highest bidder. 9/11, London Underground, and Spanish train plots will simply repeat themselves after pauses...

[Blackflag]

The War needs to be "won" --whatever the definition of victory is

[Nickdfresh]

Instead of trying to wipe out the opium farmers, they should legitimize them. Hook them up with the pharmaceutical companies, and make it the source material for the morphine in your local hospital, rather than the smack on the street.

Rush Limbaugh should easily get on board with this idea. It might bring the price of his Oxycontin down a little.

An excellent idea.

A counterinsurgency battle cannot be won militarily or as one US general put it speaking about Iraq, "you cannot just shoot or kill your way out of an insurgency."

I've heard one of the main motivations for Talub fighters has nothing to do with Islam or that 72-virgin shiite. They simply just want to earn a regular paycheck and live in some semblance of political, social, and economic order where Warlord bastards aren't just robbing them and fucking their children at will...the ideal solution would be to send few hundred thousand NATO troops and to crush the more despotic warlords and then begin to rebuild the regional networks while economically developing the country. But that's never going to happen...

[Blackflag]

An excellent idea.

A typically moronic Ford idea.

Why would an Afghan do that when they can make far more profit selling to the black market? Why? Because it's the right thing to do? Because it would make Ford's day?

Moreover, there's no demand from the legitimate market - those companies already have sources for opium, and there's no shortage of morphine. Further, it would just fuck over the current legitimate sources and reward bad behavior.

Just another asinine Ford jerk-off that you think is "excellent"...

[Nickdfresh]

A typically moronic Ford idea.

Why would an Afghan do that when they can make far more profit selling to the black market? Why? Because it's the right thing to do? Because it would make Ford's day?

The typical farmers don't make much at all, their wages are on a third world scale and they do well if they eat regularly and can afford security. The only people making money are the drug lords and the Taliban, which is why the US has stopped bothering the farmers much and attempted large scale drug seizures...

Moreover, there's no demand from the legitimate market - those co mpanies already have sources for opium, and there's no shortage of morphine. Further, it would just fuck over the current legitimate sources and reward bad behavior.

Just another asinine Ford jerk-off that you think is "excellent"...

But that doesn't mean you can't incentivize their using the dope from Afghanistan...

[Blackflag]

The typical farmers don't make much at all, their wages are on a third world scale and they do well if they eat regularly and can afford security. The only people making money are the drug lords and the Taliban, which is why the US has stopped bothering the farmers much and attempted large scale drug seizures...

And you think the Taliban will stand by while an individual farmer deals directly with U.S. pharmaceutical companies - and they undermine the Taliban's source of black market income? They'd cut off his nose first. Or are you going to put troops on every farm in the country to make sure the Taliban behaves?

Whoever makes the money off the opium - farmers, taliban, whoever - they're not going to choose the low-profit, but honest, route. And you're not going to impose honest and ethical behavior on a country that doesn't want it for itself.

But that doesn't mean you can't incentivize their using the dope from Afghanistan...

And what message does that send? That if you act like an asshole, you'll get economic benefits from the U.S.? I think that's the message N. Korea got, too.

[Nickdfresh]

And you think the Taliban will stand by while an individual farmer deals directly with U.S. pharmaceutical companies - and they undermine the Taliban's source of black market income? They'd cut off his nose first. Or are you going to put troops on every farm in the country to make sure the Taliban behaves?
...

Of course not! You directly assault the Taliban and isolate various elements with a divide-and-conquer, carrot-and-stick strategy. You also get militias together and get the Afghan police to be somewhat competent...

And what message does that send? That if you act like an asshole, you'll get economic benefits from the U.S.? I think that's the message N. Korea got, too.

By "act like an asshole," do you mean making a living and not starving to death by the only means at one's disposal. Not everyone has a soft US middle class existence...

[Blackflag]

Of course not! You directly assault the Taliban and isolate various elements with a divide-and-conquer, carrot-and-stick strategy. You also get militias together and get the Afghan police to be somewhat competent...

As the queer machine said above... how did that work out in Vietnam? Or in Iraq, for that matter? Do you think that's a unique approach to occupation?

By "act like an asshole," do you mean making a living and not starving to death by the only means at one's disposal. Not everyone has a soft US middle class existence...

No, I mean...if you start up a totalitarian theocracy that shits on its women, murders its own citizens, and deals opium...the U.S. will swoop in and hook you up with contracts with our pharmaceutical industry (which has no incentive to deal with madmen). Sure. Great precedent to set.

Overall, another great Ford idea. Genius!

[standin]

Least you forget, once opium was declared unethical to produce, crops nearly ceased to exist.

During the Taliban rule, Afghanistan saw a bumper opium crop of 4,600 metric tons in 1999,[7]. In July 2000, Taliban leader Mullah Mohammed Omar declared that growing poppies was un-Islamic, resulting in one of the world's most successful anti-drug campaigns. As a result of this ban, opium poppy cultivation was reduced by 91% from the previous year's estimate of 82,172 hectares. The ban was so effective that Helmand Province, which had accounted for more than half of this area, recorded no poppy cultivation during the 2001 season.[8]

Based on UNODC data, there has been more opium poppy cultivation in each of the past four growing seasons (2004-2007), than in any one year during Taliban rule. Also, more land is now used for opium in Afghanistan, than for coca cultivation in Latin America. In 2007, 93% of the opiates on the world market originated in Afghanistan

I don't know who all uses Opium, I only to my knowledge have known one person that used Opium, and I would not have known that had I not recently learned what "King Herald" really meant.


But there must be a glut on the market by now. If free markets are as they proclaim, there must be a drop in supply soon, which means less production. Not that the drug trade outside of the ineffectual governing body, has a damn thing to do with hoodlia.

At the moment, the purest form of free market no tax system is in operation in Afghanistan.

That is what unregulated markets and no tax looks like, Afghanistan as we see it today.

[Blackflag]

I don't know who all uses Opium, I only to my knowledge have known one person that used Opium, and I would not have known that had I not recently learned what "King Herald" really meant.

It's used to make heroin, jackass.

How did we get on this opium discussion, anyways? Who gives a fuck if Afghanistan supplies the world with opium? I couldn't give a shit if I tried.

That's really an argument for this Afghanistan war - a war on drugs offshoot? The 'war on terror' has merged with the 'war on drugs?' Fuck me.

[BITEYOASS]

Least you forget, once opium was declared unethical to produce, crops nearly ceased to exist.

During the Taliban rule, Afghanistan saw a bumper opium crop of 4,600 metric tons in 1999,[7]. In July 2000, Taliban leader Mullah Mohammed Omar declared that growing poppies was un-Islamic, resulting in one of the world's most successful anti-drug campaigns. As a result of this ban, opium poppy cultivation was reduced by 91% from the previous year's estimate of 82,172 hectares. The ban was so effective that Helmand Province, which had accounted for more than half of this area, recorded no poppy cultivation during the 2001 season.[8]

Based on UNODC data, there has been more opium poppy cultivation in each of the past four growing seasons (2004-2007), than in any one year during Taliban rule. Also, more land is now used for opium in Afghanistan, than for coca cultivation in Latin America. In 2007, 93% of the opiates on the world market originated in Afghanistan

I don't know who all uses Opium, I only to my knowledge have known one person that used Opium, and I would not have known that had I not recently learned what "King Herald" really meant.


But there must be a glut on the market by now. If free markets are as they proclaim, there must be a drop in supply soon, which means less production. Not that the drug trade outside of the ineffectual governing body, has a damn thing to do with hoodlia.

At the moment, the purest form of free market no tax system is in operation in Afghanistan.

That is what unregulated markets and no tax looks like, Afghanistan as we see it today.

Well this explains everything! Bush crime family must have had trouble making cash in 2001 so what do they do? DA DA-DA-DAAAA! Wah ahn tewaw!

[standin]

yes, golly, gotta be those bushes. therefore, lets get the regular farmers and farm production companies in the stream of regular business. And dimes to dollars there will be a altruistic family leadership family, though slightly perverted and skewed for a couple generations, that will come from the chaos of an unregulated market.

[Nitro Express]

Instead of trying to wipe out the opium farmers, they should legitimize them. Hook them up with the pharmaceutical companies, and make it the source material for the morphine in your local hospital, rather than the smack on the street.

Rush Limbaugh should easily get on board with this idea. It might bring the price of his Oxycontin down a little.

Pharmacutical companies don't need an organic source once they have the molecular structure figured out. They just synthesize the drug using carbon as a base. They sell plenty of addictive opiates like the famous Oxycontin and Vicadin. They don't need poppy juice.

[hideyoursheep]

Pharmacutical companies don't need an organic source once they have the molecular structure figured out. They just synthesize the drug using carbon as a base. They sell plenty of addictive opiates like the famous Oxycontin and Vicadin. They don't need poppy juice.

Wrong dude.

They HAVE figued it out, only not to any degree of sucksess. The so-called non-narcotic pain meds cost just as much, do far less, and have even shittier side effects. So much so, that they actually prescribe an additional drug to combat the shitty side effect.

But, that's what happens when Big Pharma does what it wants.

And I'm not so sure Big Pharma isn't buying some of this Afghan opium for it's meds dirt cheap, and selling them to YOU, the consumer at a astronomical, insurance milking markup. There isn't enough opium grown in the states to supply Big Pharma's demand for ingredients. It has to come from somewhere.



BTW...It's VICODIN.

[GAR]

An excellent idea.

bwaaaaaak~!

"XLNT idea.. XLNT idea..
XLNT idea.. "