Text of Obama's speech to Congress on health care reform

[kwame k]

600 billion dollars in savings.. how about giving that to the taxpayer anyways.. saying they can find it, therefore the plan won't cost anything.

that's 1/6th of the fucking GPN of the total US economy: impossible if you can read, possible if you're a black welfare queen seeing the doctor all the time with your baby-daddy kids.. all the time

Always have to throw a racist comment in don't ya little fella.

[Nitro Express]

My Democratic friends have lost faith in Obama. They voted for him hoping he would repeal the Patriot Act due to it's unconstitutionality and that he would start winding down the unecessary wars in the middle east. They see Obama is just a slicker reincarnation of George W. Bush. Change? It's the same old shit with more shit added.

[Nitro Express]

the legislature under consideration is about mandatory health insurance.

everyone will be forced to have it whether they want it or not, and if they do not want it they are taxed for it anyways and then penalized on top of that for not partaking.

Yup. This will break the back of small businesses. Anyone who refuses to be a government shill will be punished. So it's not about healthcare at all. It's about breaking the independent people who want less government and take care of themselves.

[Nitro Express]

Why can't it be more like public colleges and private colleges.
You can have both private and public options. As far as mandatory health insurance, I don't think you'll ever see that happen or enforced. If you're on welfare you have no money for health care plus you have state funded health care so what will change there?

What type of health care will I be forced to get? How will they collect it?

It will be collected like social security. They will probably make your employer pay some and then you pay some. Most people don't know it but the Social Security tax is 12%. Since it's garnished from their paycheck and the employer pays half, people have no idea that the tax is 12%. If it's not paid, then they can throw you and your employer in jail. Just add more % and that's the new healthcare and with it comes higher medical costs due to the additional paperwork and regulations your doctor will have to put up with.

[Blackflag]

It will be collected like social security. They will probably make your employer pay some and then you pay some. Most people don't know it but the Social Security tax is 12%. Since it's garnished from their paycheck and the employer pays half, people have no idea that the tax is 12%. If it's not paid, then they can throw you and your employer in jail. Just add more % and that's the new healthcare and with it comes higher medical costs due to the additional paperwork and regulations your doctor will have to put up with.

Either that, or they'll just build it into your tax return. I think they would need to do that, since they're talking about giving a pass to low-income people - that is, making them buy it, then giving it back in their return.

But 'how will the government collect money from me' is a silly question. Let me count the ways...

[GAR]

If you're on welfare you have no money for health care plus you have state funded health care so what will change there?

Back in the band days, either you had your chick taking care of you or you were on welfare or both.

In my case, it was both. Then in 93 the State of California decided with Los Angeles County to cut your monthly stipend down from $385 a month, to $212 a month by saying that the difference is taken up in the value of recipients of Medi-Cal and those (the few) who chose to utilize boarding facilities such as the downtown skid row bunks and Section 8 Housing beneficiaries.

So, they let themselves off the hook for over 170 a month, ripping off the poor which included us doing the sunset strip thingy.. bottom line I'm saying is even when they give you free shit, they'll take it away.

Once they bleed the taxpayer for mandatory medical insurance, believe me, the government will find a way to plunder it for itself - leaving the higher taxes in place in the process..

[jhale667]

So you were like Poison, without the talent...

Back in the band days, either you had your chick taking care of you or you were on welfare or both.

Some of us had jobs so we didn't have to beg our girlfriends for money for strings... :tongue0011:

[standin]

Do we really want the people responsible for the banker bailout fiasco to micro manage our healthcare? They tend to make existing problems worse and cost the little guy plenty. We will still have the same insurance companies but the govt. will now have the power to force you to buy a policy. Insurance and big pharma will be involved because they have the money to bribe the politicians. I wonder how much they gave to Obama's campaign. As far as I'm concerned the govt. hasn't proven itself trustworthy of anything so why give them more power?

Again the "government is an inanimate object. It can be neither trustworthy or untrustworthy.

Accountability, is the word you are looking for to describe another concept

Accountability does not exist unless there is a standard to account to.

There is no standard to account to unless there are checks and balances (debits and credits)

The accountability is when something goes unaccounted for.

What you are saying it there is not enough accountability in the government.

Unaccountability occurs when 1) opportunity, 2) pressure or 3) justification are present with a human element.

You take one of those three things away unaccountability drops, you take another accountability rises. Take all three and the likely hood of unaccountability occurring is rare.


So, what you are actually saying is you wish the SEC had more aggressive enforcement abilities.

Having health care will in fact free you up to be an entrepreneur.
It will allow less strain on smaller business to compete for the talent.
It will allow, a person with 15 years of experience, which happens to include family needs as part of getting 15 years of experience.
Most people are not celibate.
they have a mate and mating often creates children and that is beyond their own needs of regular checks up and maintenance, because that is what you are supposed to do.
Now, a person with 15 years of experience can assist a inexperienced person with an entrepreneurial business venture.
It will make America more innovative and achieve the very thing you wish

Less dependence on big business and more Independence from those you spoke of big banker/insurance, it might even motivate pharmaceuticals to become innovative and instead of treating symptoms by working with other big business such as the food and housing industry.

We are a long way from living 900 years. As they discover cures these cures will give way to other issues, they did not know about.
Remember at one time cancer was unknown.

[ZahZoo]

To show you what a scam this was we could have just given everyone with a social security number 18 or older $150,000. This would cost the government around $100 billion. People could pay their debts, buy some healthcare, invest it or whatever. This would stimulate the economy more than a tens of trillions of dollars banker bailout. We could buy the personal debt and save money instead of giving it to the banks.

We should have just let the banks fail and then give some money to the citizens directly. We would actually be in better shape than we are now.

You weren't in the top of your class in mathmatics eh?

Go google the current US population... nevermind I'll help you out due to the kindness of my heart.

Current US Population ~305 million. 80% over 18 = 244,000,000

244,000,000 * 150,000 = 3,660,000,000,000

Yes that's $3.66 Trillion

[Nitro Express]

I got straight A's in math and took it up to second semester college calculus. Where we differ on is the population over 18 variable. Your figure must account for all the illegal aliens. I'm talking legit citizens here.

[ZahZoo]

Most of this data was taken from the US Census...

Demographics of the United States - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

What's your source and demographics?

[Seshmeister]

Maths battle!

Nitro also doesn't allow for the effect on inflation and productivity of giving $150k to the population.

[Nickdfresh]

Again the "government is an inanimate object. It can be neither trustworthy or untrustworthy.

...

The gov't is not a "monolith" of unity or oneness. It is a disorganized and vast collection of cellular and compartmentalized structures with different, often conflicting agendas...

[Nitro Express]

Maths battle!

Nitro also doesn't allow for the effect on inflation and productivity of giving $150k to the population.

It's not a battle and it's it not math. Math is just the machine used to get the end result. The difference is the variable of how many social security number holding people 18 and above. Fine. Let's use the US Census. Still far cheaper than the bankers bailout which hasn't done anything for the real economy or jobs.

As far as US Dollars go. I own as few as possible. It's going to hyperinflate soon. One reason gold hit $1000 and ounce.

[sadaist]

As far as US Dollars go. I own as few as possible. It's going to hyperinflate soon. One reason gold hit $1000 and ounce.

Just to show the comparison in case not everyone here follows the gold market, 3 years ago it was around $550 per ounce. 10 years ago it was about $265 per ounce.