Bin Laden a Fail

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  • Nickdfresh
    SUPER MODERATOR

    • Oct 2004
    • 49565

    Bin Laden a Fail

    Eight Years After 9/11: Why Osama bin Laden is a Failure
    By TONY KARON Tony Karon 47 mins ago

    He may have eluded justice and the long reach of the world's most powerful military force; his followers may (and probably will) strike again at some point in the future, near or distant; but history's verdict on Osama bin Laden has been in for some time, now: Al-Qaeda failed.

    The 9/11 attacks on New York and Washington - like those that preceded it in East Africa in 1998 and those that followed in London, Madrid, Bali and other places - were tactical successes, in that they managed to kill hundreds of innocents, grab the world's headlines and briefly dominate the nightmares of Western policy makers. But the strategy of which those attacks formed part has proven to be fundamentally flawed. Terrorism departs from the rules of war by deliberately targeting the innocent, but it shares the basic motive force of conventional warfare - "the pursuit of politics by other means, " as Clausewitz wrote. (See pictures of the challenge of memorializing 9/11.)

    The purpose of the 9/11 attacks was not simply to kill Americans; they formed part of Bin Laden's strategy to launch a global Islamist revolution aimed at ending U.S. influence in Muslim countries, overthrowing regimes there allied with Washington, and putting al-Qaeda at the head of a global Islamist insurgency whose objective was to restore the rule of the Islamic Caliphate that had once ruled territory stretching from Moorish Spain through much of Asia. (See pictures of Osama Bin Laden.)

    Today, of course, al-Qaeda is believed to comprise a couple of hundred desperate men, their core leaders hiding out in Pakistan's tribal wilds and under constant threat of attack by ever-present U.S. drone aircraft, their place in Western nightmares and security assessments long-since eclipsed by such longtime rivals as Iran, Hizballah, Hamas and the Muslim Brotherhood. This year's official threat assessment by the U.S. Directorate of National Intelligence cited the primary security challenge facing the U.S. as the global economic downturn. The report cited "notable progress in Muslim public opinion turning against terrorist groups like al-Qaeda", and said no country was at risk of falling to Qaeda-inspired extremists. It argued that sustained pressure against the movement's surviving core in the Pakistani tribal wilds was degrading its organizational cohesion and diminishing the threat it poses.

    Sure, al-Qaeda continues to issue vituperative missives by video from its hideouts, many of them directed at the likes of Iran and Hamas. But Hamas spokesman Osama Hamdan seemed to sum up al-Qaeda's plight two years ago, when responding to a particularly rabid attack from Bin Laden's number two. Ayman al-Zawahiri had accused Hamas of "joining the surrender train" by participating in elections and agreeing to form a unity government with Fatah. Hamas, sneered Hamdan in rsponse, had no need of advice from "a fugitive in the Afghan mountains" and did not accept criticism from "those who do not know what is going on." (See pictures of life under Hamas in Gaza.)

    Even among those who share much of Bin Laden's animus to the U.S. and Israel, al-Qaeda has remained largely irrelevant, its strategy of globa l jihad rejected in favor of an Islamist radicalism focused on more limited national goals.

    The flaw in Bin Laden's strategy of trying to capture the imagination of the Muslim masses through spectacular acts of terror was obvious even in the immediate wake of 9/11. In much of the Arab and Muslim world, there was a pervasive refusal to believe that Muslims had been responsible for the attacks, even after Bin Laden claimed responsibility. The denial inherent in the tendency common from Egypt to Indonesia to blame the Mossad or the CIA for 9/11 reveal a damning negation of al-Qaeda's tactics - so repulsive was the mass murder of innocents to ordinary Muslims that most refused to celebrate the attacks, as Bin Laden had hoped they might, but instead sought to blame them on those deemed enemies of Islam. (Read: "How to Remember 9/11.")

    Even in countries where al-Qaeda had hoped to capitalize on resentment against American influence, its networks were largely rolled up by security services as the population looked on, indifferent. By invading Iraq, the Bush Administration arguably did a far more effective job than Bin Laden had d one of weakening U.S. influence in the Muslim world and rallying its youth to resistance. Yet, even in Iraq, al-Qaeda's effort to gain control of the resistance failed because its ideology and tactics were so loathsome even to the bulk of the Sunni insurgents fighting the Americans that they eventually made common cause with the U.S. against the jihadists.

    Even in Afghanistan, Bin Laden's erstwhile stomping ground, the fight against the U.S. is being waged by the Taliban, which may have been an ally of al-Qaeda but exists entirely independently of Bin Laden's movement and will ultimately make its strategic decisions based on its own, national interests. The sobering reality for Bin Laden is that even among those dedicated to resist the U.S. and its allies, his ideology of global jihad against the "far enemy" (the United States) has failed to supplant the more pragmatic Islamist movements such as Hamas, Hizballah and Egypt's Muslim Brotherhood, all of whom limit themselves to clearly defined national objectives, eliciting increasingly manic denunciations from al-Qaeda's cave-dwellers. (See pictures of the U.S. Marines new offensive in Afghanistan.)

    Senator John Kerry invited ridicule from the Bush Administration while running for President in 2004, when he made the point that terrorism was essentially a law enforcement and intelligence problem. "We have to get back to the place we were, where terrorists are not the focus of our lives, but they're a nuisance," he told the New York Times, suggesting that the goal was to reach a point where the specter of al-Qaeda "isn't threatening people's lives every day, and fundamentally, it's something that you continue to fight, but it's not threatening the fabric of your life."

    Not even another 9/11 scale terror attack would succeed in launching al-Qaeda's revolution. The years since 9/11 have seen events in Gaza, Iraq, Lebanon and Afghanistan escalating Muslim hostility towards Israel and the U.S., and those Arab regimes deemed too willing to do Washington's bidding. But, even so, al-Qaeda remains a marginal factor. Bin Laden may have imagined that 9/11 would anoint him the head of a resurgent Caliphate in the making, but instead it has reduced him, and his movement, to a life of duck-and-cover in Pakistan's wild frontier - and a political address otherwise known as oblivion. History marches on without them.

    Time @ Yahoo.com
  • Va Beach VH Fan
    ROTH ARMY FOUNDER
    • Dec 2003
    • 17913

    #2
    I couldn't disagree more with this guy...

    Bin Laden's plan succeeded beyond his wildest dreams.. The planning of the hijacking of the planes, the training of the hijackers, and not only that 3 of the 4 planes successfully achieved their respective targets, but the collapsing of the both towers in NYC can not be construed as anything other than a success...

    Not to mention the increased security to this day, eight years later, in just about any significant public place....
    Eat Us And Smile - The Originals

    "I have a very belligerent enthusiasm or an enthusiastic belligerence. I’m an intellectual slut." - David Lee Roth

    "We are part of the, not just the culture, but the geography. Van Halen music goes along with like fries with the burger." - David Lee Roth

    Comment

    • chefcraig
      DIAMOND STATUS
      • Apr 2004
      • 12172

      #3
      The basic, inherent flaw with terrorism is it's over reliance on the symbolic act, an attention getting device used to draw people to the voice of the perpetrator in order to foment an agenda. The problem with the act is that it more often than not fails to galvanize support from the people intended to get the message. For instance, look at the absurd behavior of groups like Act-Up or PETA. (No, I am not about to compare the worldwide slaughter of thousands of human beings to a bunch of socially warped homosexual or animal activists, only the oddly misplaced idealism.) By holding up traffic or offering children offensive material at fast-food joints, the activist merely inconveniences or worse yet, alienates those he wishes to draw support from. It's more or less like a politician urinating in a baby's face, then stating to the kid's mother he's all for stiffer penalties for child abusers, and to please vote for him.

      The logic is nebulous at best, and murderously idiotic at worst. It is one thing to have the will of the people behind you, as a people united in the strength of belief can move mountains. The trick is in how one goes about gaining that trust and support in the first place. And let's not forget that the infighting of a movement's leaders amongst themselves can often undo what the efforts of outside forces could not: bring about utter it's collapse from the inside.

      Over the past 18 months or so, there have been hints that Al-Qaeda may in fact be crumbling from within. The failure of the group by it's own hand would not only be poetic justice, it would hold a sweet irony that everyone, not just historians, would appreciate. Achtung, baby! Indeed.
      Last edited by chefcraig; 09-11-2009, 09:59 AM.









      “The greatest enemy of knowledge is not ignorance, it is the illusion of knowledge.”
      ― Stephen Hawking

      Comment

      • Dr. Love
        ROTH ARMY SUPREME
        • Jan 2004
        • 7833

        #4
        Originally posted by Va Beach VH Fan
        I couldn't disagree more with this guy...

        Bin Laden's plan succeeded beyond his wildest dreams.. The planning of the hijacking of the planes, the training of the hijackers, and not only that 3 of the 4 planes successfully achieved their respective targets, but the collapsing of the both towers in NYC can not be construed as anything other than a success...

        Not to mention the increased security to this day, eight years later, in just about any significant public place....
        Those are all very specific, tactical successes. It doesn't do anything to further a strategic goal, however. It changed our lives, yes -- but if it had been some other group to do the same thing with wildly different end goals (say, the dissolution of the United States), the end result would have been the same.

        They'd've score a tactical win and a strategic loss. If anything, the attacks had a further negative impact on Al-Qaeda than on the US. We have to wade through security at the airport whenever we fly. They have to constantly move their location and keep an eye on the sky to try to avoid being killed.
        I've got the cure you're thinkin' of.

        http://i.imgur.com/jBw4fCu.gif

        Comment

        • Panamark
          DIAMOND STATUS
          • Jan 2004
          • 17161

          #5
          Off topic here (As I believe Bin Laden is dead) have any of the
          post 9/11 Bin Laden videos been proven beyond doubt to be real ?
          BABY PANA 2 IS Coming !! All across the land, let the love and beer flow !
          Love ya Mary Frances!

          Comment

          • Nickdfresh
            SUPER MODERATOR

            • Oct 2004
            • 49565

            #6
            Originally posted by Va Beach VH Fan
            I couldn't disagree more with this guy...

            Bin Laden's plan succeeded beyond his wildest dreams.. The planning of the hijacking of the planes, the training of the hijackers, and not only that 3 of the 4 planes successfully achieved their respective targets, but the collapsing of the both towers in NYC can not be construed as anything other than a success...

            Not to mention the increased security to this day, eight years later, in just about any significant public place....
            So in essence, he won the battle (a terrorist masterpiece), but lost the War (support of the Islamic world). Hence, the terms tactical victory and strategic defeat.
            Last edited by Nickdfresh; 09-11-2009, 11:28 AM.

            Comment

            • Nickdfresh
              SUPER MODERATOR

              • Oct 2004
              • 49565

              #7
              I recommend everyone view BBC documentary "The Power of Nightmares," which goes into depth on this notion of Islamic terrorism using mass-violence, and how they've lost in every country using these horrific tactics as they only alienate those they seek the support of. I think the best example of a prolonged terrorist insurgency would be Algeria where the Army (or gov't security forces) crushed Islamic insurgents even though the Islamists had won an election and initially held the popular will. Their tactics ultimately drove the popular will behind the gov't forcing a crushing defeat in some cases, or negotiations for power-sharing in the more moderate groups...
              Last edited by Nickdfresh; 09-11-2009, 11:37 AM.

              Comment

              • Igosplut
                ROTH ARMY WEBMASTER

                • Jan 2004
                • 2794

                #8
                As much as I dislike Kerry, I do agree with his statement in that article.
                Chainsaw Muthuafucka

                Comment

                • Nitro Express
                  DIAMOND STATUS
                  • Aug 2004
                  • 32942

                  #9
                  Bin Laden should have taken out the power grid. Sure he caused a big ruckus and killed around 3,000 people. It just gave the anglo-american alliance an excuse to invade the middle east and surround Russia and China. If Bin Laden's aim was at ruining life for the average American, he succeeded, he gave our govt. the excuse to clamp down on us but the people he really should hate got richer off his terrorism.
                  No! You can't have the keys to the wine cellar!

                  Comment

                  • Nitro Express
                    DIAMOND STATUS
                    • Aug 2004
                    • 32942

                    #10
                    <object width="425" height="344"><param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/v/B7Tz8l-t1o4&hl=en&fs=1&"></param><param name="allowFullScreen" value="true"></param><param name="allowscriptaccess" value="always"></param><embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/B7Tz8l-t1o4&hl=en&fs=1&" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" allowscriptaccess="always" allowfullscreen="true" width="425" height="344"></embed></object>
                    No! You can't have the keys to the wine cellar!

                    Comment

                    • Blackflag
                      Banned
                      • Apr 2006
                      • 3406

                      #11
                      Originally posted by Nitro Express
                      If Bin Laden's aim was at ruining life for the average American, he succeeded,
                      That was part of it, but I think he also said at the time that he was trying to bring down the whole U.S. economy. Looking at where we're at right now, he did a decent job. You certainly can't say he failed. It wasn't about just taking down a building.

                      And asshole Kerry voted for the patriot act, for the war, for all the new military appropriations... So it's ironic for him to say shit.

                      Comment

                      • Nickdfresh
                        SUPER MODERATOR

                        • Oct 2004
                        • 49565

                        #12
                        Originally posted by Blackflag
                        That was part of it, but I think he also said at the time that he was trying to bring down the whole U.S. economy. Looking at where we're at right now, he did a decent job. You certainly can't say he failed. It wasn't about just taking down a building.
                        Then Bin Laden hit the wrong fucking building in NYC, if he had taken out Wall St., he might have done us all a favor. And greedy assholes have done far more to bring down the economy than Bin Laden or the asshole that actually did most of the planning who doesn't even like Bin Laden.

                        The Dow dropped after 9/11, but the direct problems were short lived and it was the corporate scandals that did the real damage. Remember ENRON, World Com, or Adelphia?

                        And asshole Kerry voted for the patriot act, for the war, for all the new military appropriations... So it's ironic for him to say shit.
                        WTF does that have to do with anything? How does that in anyway make his statement wrong?

                        And the War and the unPatriot Act were driven through without the slightest thought due to fear mongering and loathing. Kerry wasn't going to be elected if he hadn't. He voted for the War, for the ironically named act, but yet was still labeled a "traitor" for some stupid (yet somewhat true) statements he uttered 40 years ago...

                        Comment

                        • Coyote
                          ROTH ARMY SUPREME
                          • Jan 2004
                          • 8185

                          #13
                          I assume I'm the only one who thinks Bin Laden was nothing but a boogey-man from day 1...
                          Why settle for something you have, if it's not as good as something you're out to get?

                          Originally posted by Seshmeister
                          It's like putting up a YouTube of Bach and playing Chopstix on your Bontempi...

                          Comment

                          • standin
                            Veteran
                            • Apr 2009
                            • 2274

                            #14
                            I believe that to an extent. More legend than real. I do think at one point he was a general, commander or whatever rank being used to screw up what infrastructure USSR was building over there.
                            Once a leader or commander goes from direct communications to indirect communications the ease to create false "orders" or faked anything becomes 999&#37; easier.
                            To put it simply, we need to worry a lot less about how to communicate our actions and much more about what our actions communicate.
                            MICHAEL G. MULLEN

                            Comment

                            • Blackflag
                              Banned
                              • Apr 2006
                              • 3406

                              #15
                              Originally posted by Nickdfresh
                              Then Bin Laden hit the wrong fucking building in NYC, if he had taken out Wall St., he might have done us all a favor. And greedy assholes have done far more to bring down the economy than Bin Laden or the asshole that actually did most of the planning who doesn't even like Bin Laden.
                              Next time you can advise him on how to do it better. I'd say he did alright. btw - none of the markets require a building on Wall St. to continue trading.

                              Originally posted by Nickdfresh
                              The Dow dropped after 9/11, but the direct problems were short lived and it was the corporate scandals that did the real damage. Remember ENRON, World Com, or Adelphia?
                              Short lived? How is the economy 8 year later?


                              Originally posted by Nickdfresh

                              And the War and the unPatriot Act were driven through without the slightest thought due to fear mongering and loathing. Kerry wasn't going to be elected if he hadn't. He voted for the War, for the ironically named act, but yet was still labeled a "traitor" for some stupid (yet somewhat true) statements he uttered 40 years ago...
                              Fear mongering based on what? What was the catalyst for all of it? If you listen to bin Laden, it was what he expected. It certainly wasn't unforeseeable that the country would curtail freedoms, spend trillions on war, go into debt. Lots of people predicted it, and so did he.

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