Detroit Housing Prices...

[WACF]

IF YOU HAVE:

· An eight hour workday
· A five day work week
· Paid sick days, vacation days, and holidays
· Family and medical leave
· Health, life, and disability insurance
· A pension
· Safe and healthy working conditions
· Proper job training

THEN THANK A UNION MEMBER.

These things occured because of pressure from organized labour....not because of the goodness of some businessmen or politician.

Look at US coal mining history alone just to see how expendable human lives...at any age...were.

Excellent post FORD.

[ELVIS]

Well, Obama wants to shut down coal, so it looks like you are out of a job...

[Sensible Shoes]

OK - playing with that "common ground" psychological bullshit- I think there's some things everybody can agree on. Unions can get out of control and become corrupt. Individuals inside unions can take advantage of the protection and abuse their freedoms. Some companies can play fair without being forced to do it. Whatever side of the controversey your experience lies on colors your experience of the whole process.

Unions STARTED way back when as a good thing to make life safe and comfortable for abused workers. They got big enough to allow abuses of their power. Some companies have been hurt by it. But some companies have stood on their heads to circumvent the process for their bottom lines. They go to the other end of the spectrum and start abusing their workers again. Yes people have died from this - airlines industry, mining, refineries.

Fair?

[ELVIS]

I suppose so...

[Sensible Shoes]

Damn. I want Hillary Clinton's job.

[WACF]

Well, Obama wants to shut down coal, so it looks like you are out of a job...

Obama will never shut down coal...

Besides...I am a Canadian and we mine Potash...I will never be out of a job...

[Sensible Shoes]

Obama will never shut down coal...

Besides...I am a Canadian and we mine Potash...I will never be out of a job...

I think my "investments person" just put some of my retirement fund in potash. I guess there's only one company in the US that does it.

[WACF]

OK - playing with that "common ground" psychological bullshit- I think there's some things everybody can agree on. Unions can get out of control and become corrupt. Individuals inside unions can take advantage of the protection and abuse their freedoms. Some companies can play fair without being forced to do it. Whatever side of the controversey your experience lies on colors your experience of the whole process.

Unions STARTED way back when as a good thing to make life safe and comfortable for abused workers. They got big enough to allow abuses of their power. Some companies have been hurt by it. But some companies have stood on their heads to circumvent the process for their bottom lines. They go to the other end of the spectrum and start abusing their workers again. Yes people have died from this - airlines industry, mining, refineries.

Fair?

I once heard someone say that unions were a necessary evil....as weird as that may sound it rings very true in some industry.

Unions came to life to save lives and provide a living wage...because factory owners or mine owners only saw you as an expense.

Like anything...any organization can become corrupt...and unions are not exempt.

But...you can not paint them all with one brush...just like there are some companies that are not organized with a union...and treat their employees with fairness and a competitve wage.

On another note....union wages are often reflected in non union jobs because non unionized companies need to retain thier workers...so unions even benefit non unionized shops.

[WACF]

I think my "investments person" just put some of my retirement fund in potash. I guess there's only one company in the US that does it.

The insudstry has had a real bad year.

Over priced product(greed to it's highest degree) during a global crunch.

The shares have taken a beating...so...really they are on sale right now...so that is not a bad move at all on your investment person.

Things will turn around...there is no away around the need for Potash.

[BITEYOASS]

Nah...

Unions are constantly trying to infiltrate the Oil industry and the shipyards here and they are not welcome...

Take a look. Louisiana is one of the few states not severly affected by the recession...wonder why...

I'm sure threatening to have someone to get fired, have their wages cut or lie to them that the Negros will get more money, if a workplace was unionized was the reason. I doubt that those workers voluntarily decided to be non-union. That's a right-to-work state for you!

[Big Train]

I don't see any benefit a union provides that a government agency should not already be providing. Whether or not they are enforcing at the right levels, that's another story.

Edit: Actually, upon reflection, I will say, collective bargaining is the ONE benefit union members get. Whether or not that is in your best interest is for you to determine. You could just get outside lawyers on retainer. However, if you disagree with the deal, your shit outta luck, your a "union shop".

[WACF]

I don't see any benefit a union provides that a government agency should not already be providing. Whether or not they are enforcing at the right levels, that's another story.

Edit: Actually, upon reflection, I will say, collective bargaining is the ONE benefit union members get. Whether or not that is in your best interest is for you to determine. You could just get outside lawyers on retainer. However, if you disagree with the deal, your shit outta luck, your a "union shop".

Alot of the labour laws in force were put there by organized labour...so...without that things may not of progressed.

As far as collective bargaining goes...alot of work places will try to buy out or appeal to the younger employees...to get rid of certain benefits or pension packages that only appeal to the older employees looking at using them. So...in many cases having the old timers around who fought like hell to get them...are needed to keep them.

An employee with a family and looking at early retirement has different interests than a single 20 year old looking for truck payments and beer.

[Big Train]

Well, there is another way to look at it. It's a different structure. What you fought for and paid into for so many years might simply no longer be feasible in today's world, even though it was for a long time.

It also might not be what the younger employee wants, but it is being forced into going along with in order to fund the older workers.

So yea, I can understand you wanting to get yours, but I don't see how the company is wrong to want to change how they do business in today's climate.

[WACF]

Well, there is another way to look at it. It's a different structure. What you fought for and paid into for so many years might simply no longer be feasible in today's world, even though it was for a long time.

It also might not be what the younger employee wants, but it is being forced into going along with in order to fund the older workers.

So yea, I can understand you wanting to get yours, but I don't see how the company is wrong to want to change how they do business in today's climate.

What was fought and paid for is labour rights, employment insurance and government pension, at least in Canada...all worth while.

Jobs like mine are pretty much jobs for life...new hires with short time goals are not interested in long term thinking. We went throught that where I work...and are working hard to regain what was once ignored...for example a better defined pension.

What the company wants...especially in the day of foreign investment...is not usually in the employee's best interest.

Employees do not want to see the company fail either...there is always a middle ground to what fair compensation the employee gets.

[ZahZoo]

So what does that mean? You're more worthy of it than the rest of us lazy fucks who wouldn't have it without a union?

Wow... No way.

I just work in an industry that has very little union presence and provides all those benefits. The IT industry...