To My Dearest Panamark

[Dan]

You Mean,Go Down-Under.

[ZahZoo]

I don't care who said this or that... there are some elements in the alleged speech that I whole-heartedly agree with.

Nor do I see it as racism to expect immigrants to adopt the basic elements of the society they "choose" to live in.

Learn to speak the predominate local language. Don't expect shit to be translated for you. Respect the sovern flag and symbols of the country you live in. Respect the cultural traditions established within the country.

Beyond that you're free to be, do whatever you choose. That's freedom.

[Nickdfresh]

(Without reading PM's response): Before we bash the Aussies here, and I do not support any sort of ethnic cleansing nor GTFO attitudes, I think most here are ignorant of the notion of Lebanese young males ganging together to control certain urban centers and beaches in Australia, to the extent they intentionally intimidate and overpower the police. There is also a real problem with their treatment of women (violating basic human rights of said women) by treating them as enslaved fuckdolls and generally conducting themselves with a gang, pack-mentality and acting as a law unto themselves...

It is a real social problem in Australia, although this obviously isn't the solution...

Secondly, right wing fuckwits that try to apply this logic to the U.S. (assuming the statements are true) are retards taking these situation deliberately out of context as there is no such real problem with Muslims in the US as most are integrated more readily into US culture than they are in Europe or Asia. I live about ten miles from a large Yemeni community, that there is absolutely NO major problems (aside from the Lackawanna 7, which was a fucking farce really as they were no more a "terror cell" than the "Broken Lizard" comedy troupe) here and many have found their conservative social values to be very positive in that local school system (for instance)...

[Sensible Shoes]

How do you figure the Lackawanna 6/7 were not a terrorism cell? Interesting take.

[Nickdfresh]

How do you figure the Lackawanna 6/7 were not a terrorism cell? Interesting take.

It was all exaggerated, fear-mongering bullshit. They had no real "terror weapons," little training, no cellular organization, and no plans. Other than that, I guess they were a "terror cell." IHMO

Some would say that they were a half dozen retards that went to Afghanistan/Pakistan on some spiritual journey and ended up in an al Qaida camp. But in the end, I think had they never been 'caught,' they still would never have amounted to anything...

[Baby's On Fire]

But Nick....Do they need weapons before they're considered terrorists?

If they were conspiring to obtain weapons and then intended to use those weapons to kill people...that would a terrorist make...No?

Terrorism begins with the intention to cause terror.

[Nickdfresh]

But Nick....Do they need weapons before they're considered terrorists?

If they were conspiring to obtain weapons and then intended to use those weapons to kill people...that would a terrorist make...No?

Terrorism begins with the intention to cause terror.

I don't think they had any intentions, I think it was mostly an ad hoc round up with guys serving 20 years in prison for being at the wrong place at the wrong time swept up into hysteria and paranoia...

This is largely substantiated by the fact that some wanted to use Federal Army troops to ransack the neighborhood on the day of their arrest...

[Sensible Shoes]

I'm not sure they weren't a real terror cell - given that the 7th landed in a prison in the middle east - the buzz was they were one inch away from being recruited by Al Qaida due to their "enthusiasm" for the cause. Also the buzz that the Feds screwed up the case big time and there was much evidence that ended up being inadmissable. And the mouthpiece they had down in Lackawanna was extremely skilled and a sympathetic figure.

Yes, I think the local Feds overreacted initially - and if they had let them go and kept them under surveillance for a few more months they would have had much more.

[Panamark]

(Without reading PM's response): Before we bash the Aussies here, and I do not support any sort of ethnic cleansing nor GTFO attitudes, I think most here are ignorant of the notion of Lebanese young males ganging together to control certain urban centers and beaches in Australia, to the extent they intentionally intimidate and overpower the police. There is also a real problem with their treatment of women (violating basic human rights of said women) by treating them as enslaved fuckdolls and generally conducting themselves with a gang, pack-mentality and acting as a law unto themselves...

It is a real social problem in Australia, although this obviously isn't the solution...

Secondly, right wing fuckwits that try to apply this logic to the U.S. (assuming the statements are true) are retards taking these situation deliberately out of context as there is no such real problem with Muslims in the US as most are integrated more readily into US culture than they are in Europe or Asia. I live about ten miles from a large Yemeni community, that there is absolutely NO major problems (aside from the Lackawanna 7, which was a fucking farce really as they were no more a "terror cell" than the "Broken Lizard" comedy troupe) here and many have found their conservative social values to be very positive in that local school system (for instance)...

Hope you eventually read my response ? :tongue0011:

I was going to include the problem with the lebanese male gangs.
But thought certain people here would brand me racist. And
that couldnt be further from the truth.

We have a huge lebanese population in Sydney, and as Nick pointed
out, these gang rapes on Australian girls have been a huge problem.
You have 6 Lebanese youths abduct 15 16 year old girls from
train stations, enslave them for days, repeatedly raping them
and forcing them to every depravity you could imagine.

Then when they are sentenced, the lebanese community
is uproared claiming shit like " the girls were asking for it"
and you see the rapists mothers saying what good
boys they are on TV.

Un Fucking Believable. We have adopted zero tolerance to this
now, I think the message is finally getting through, but it went on
for a good 10-15 years.

[Seshmeister]

The thing is that whenever the right wingers place the race card if you actually look at the statistics it rarely backs up what kind of sounds plausible.

This is a classic example of this.

Look at the stats.


Countries of birth of Australian estimated resident population, 2006.
Source:Australian Bureau of Statistics

According to the Australian Bureau of Statistics, in mid-2006 there were 4,956,863 residents who were born outside Australia, representing 24% of the total population.

The Australian-resident population comprises people born in these countries:

Country of Birth Estimated Resident Population
United Kingdom 1,153,264
New Zealand 476,719
Italy 220,469
China 203,143
Vietnam 180,352
India 153,579
Philippines 135,619
Greece 125,849
South Africa 118,816
Germany 114,921

So out of the top 10 immigrant countries which make up the vast majority of immigrants to Australia NONE are muslim and the majority are white Caucasians.

You mentioned Lebanese but there are only 86 000 in the country or 0.4% of the population. It's maybe problematic if they are all in one ghetto but you should be able to absorb that many.

Also nearly half of all Lebanese are actually Christian not muslim.

It's always natural and very human if people from a minority commit a crime to then assume that there is something evil about that minority.

Just remember how many hundreds of murders are committed by Australians each year.

[Seshmeister]

Also despite what Rudd might like to think there are more non religious/atheist people in Australia(about 5 million) than people that attend church at least once a month(less than 1.5 million).

[Panamark]

The thing is that whenever the right wingers place the race card if you actually look at the statistics it rarely backs up what kind of sounds plausible.

This is a classic example of this.

Look at the stats.


Countries of birth of Australian estimated resident population, 2006.
Source:Australian Bureau of Statistics

According to the Australian Bureau of Statistics, in mid-2006 there were 4,956,863 residents who were born outside Australia, representing 24% of the total population.

The Australian-resident population comprises people born in these countries:

Country of Birth Estimated Resident Population
United Kingdom 1,153,264
New Zealand 476,719
Italy 220,469
China 203,143
Vietnam 180,352
India 153,579
Philippines 135,619
Greece 125,849
South Africa 118,816
Germany 114,921

So out of the top 10 immigrant countries which make up the vast majority of immigrants to Australia NONE are muslim and the majority are white Caucasians.

You mentioned Lebanese but there are only 86 000 in the country or 0.4% of the population. It's maybe problematic if they are all in one ghetto but you should be able to absorb that many.

Also nearly half of all Lebanese are actually Christian not muslim.

It's always natural and very human if people from a minority commit a crime to then assume that there is something evil about that minority.

Just remember how many hundreds of murders are committed by Australians each year.

I worked for a Lebanese company for 8 years and got to know both
flavours (christian/muslim) quite well. I call Bullshit on those stats.
We have 3 large sections of Sydney that are all Lebanese.
Unless those 80,000 are all in those spots.
Im surprised that Nick knew about the gang rapes over the last
decade. They were all Lebanese youth. I dont give a flying fuck
nor care if they are .00001 % of our community, it was young
lebanese that comitted these crimes. Whats the percentage of
the population got to do with the crimes ??

I will look up population figures that are not 5 years old:tongue0011:

[Panamark]

Also what your stats dont reflect are the offspring born in Australia
but who are kept "strictly lebanese" by their very controlling families.

Heres Wiki's take, it mentions the three areas I referred to,
Bankstown, Punchbowl and Lakemba, take these 170,000+
Lebanese born and add their offspring and they are significant
enough to notice. Believe me, I cant go for a drive without seeing
Lebanese in Sydney !! I also believe we have the second biggest
lebanese population outside of lebanon..
This is not a Christian/Muslim thing by the way....

Im not exactly sure which pursuasion the lebanese
gangs were who performed all the gang rapes.
What does it matter ? I would be just as horrified if
the Irish started ganging up and raping schoolgirls
at random...

Lebanese (This is just in Sydney)

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lebanese_Australian

[Dan]

You Need To Ship ALL Of Those Kiwi's Back To New Zealand.

[Panamark]

Sesh,

Sydney's entire population 2009 was 4.4 million
Estimated Lebanese population now in Sydney 250,000

I guess thats a reasonable chunk of the overall population ?
Dont know the breakdown of muslim/christian