So Who's Buying GM Stock?

[Nickdfresh]

Well since Buffalo taxed itself into oblivion years ago and there isn't any real industry there anymore, I imagine most the place lives on the dole.

Really? Is that your answer? Actually, Buffalo is more of an irrelevant Great Lakes port city than a post industrial one, that was by-passed with the completion of the Welland Canal on the St. Lawrence Seaway in Canada, and taxes had fuckall to do with that. We still have some industry such as the auto plants here, and most receive some sort of tax subsidy. But Buffalo is now becoming a biomedical research mecca and college town. Yeah, the taxes are 'too damn high!' But there's a price for having low state taxes, usually in the form of having no infrastructure in many places in the South. And the real estate bargains here often compensate for the taxes...

The thing is who is going to pay for all these government programs you so love when there is no industrial base? Where's the money going to come from? The rich will just move out of the country which they are doing now.

We do have a semblance of an industrial base, and the Federal Gov't pays a good deal of these "programs" you speak of. Why would the Rich move out? They pay mostly lower taxes here than in most of Europe and just about any place worth a fuck to live. And if one's rich, like say Warren Buffet or Bill Gates, why would you give a fuck about paying a bit in taxes? The aforementioned even advocate for higher taxes on the top one or two percent. But maybe the disgruntled, lazy trustfund douches can go to Mexico where there's effectively no middle classes to buffer between the impoverished and the numerous billionaires and where Darwin can finally erase their unfair advantages in a drug gang crossfire?

[Nitro Express]

http://www.dailyfinance.com/story/taxes/more-rich-americans-renounce-u-s-citizenship-for-lower-taxes/19560160/

Many people who start and run businesses are fed up and leaving. Several people I know now live in Singapore and New Zealand. Taxes are only one issue, but it's the endless government meddling that people are sick of. To be honest, it's easier to start a business in China than here. A lot of Americans are living in Panama. The economy is hoping down there thank's to the canal zone doing well. Too bad we gave it away.

[Nitro Express]

The thing is Buffalo would come back if we start making things again. Why buy everything from China? The quality isn't any better. Plus, those kids who go into gangs, if they had another alternative, many would become line workers, some of those would further their education and go further. But the politicians don't get it and everyone wants free handouts. The productive people are scared and some are fleeing because the government has gone insane.

I have no idea what my taxes are going to be in 2011. That is one of my biggest business expenses so I'm just going to sit tight and this is because the US Congress never passed a budget. They were too busy passing a healthcare law nobody bothered to read and the public frankly didn't want. So until we change the government and get some confidence back, they are going to bolt.

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[Seshmeister]

That baldy cunt is full of shit.

He's a fucking property speculator nothing more. He doesn't create anything.

You always get this shit about 'Oh the super rich are going to leave because of the tax'.

It's complete shit.

It's a big fucking crock of crap.

They don't leave for the following reasons.

1) There is no tax is Somalia but you can't go to fucking Nobu and drink champagne there.

2) They don't pay tax. THEY DON'T PAY TAX! The richer you are the less tax you pay. The super rich pay no tax at all and their companies less. The only tax that idiot pays is sales tax on his latest whore's fucking shoes.

[Nitro Express]

Trump is a property developer. He's created quite a lot actually. He's turned several defunct buildings into successful office, hotel, and residential operations. He's built some nice golf courses. A speculator doesn't have any skin in the game. When actually develop properties you are a developer.

Who's leaving the US are the investment bankers and holding company owners. The people who own fixed assets can't leave unless they liquidate.

Warren Buffet actually admitted he pays less tax than his secretary. I know there are earmarks in the tax code that allow very rich people to get out of paying taxes but it seems to be you need to be connected. If you are a congressman or the treasury secretary and you get busted, nothing happens where you or me would get fined and go to jail. So yeah, there is a double standard.

There are rich people who pay though, because the don't make enough to qualify for the ear marks or they don't have the political connections.

The thing is if you have a central bank that prints money from nothing you really don't need taxes. The whole tax thing is a population control mechanism. You can keep people in their place with taxes.

[Nitro Express]

My wife was involved with the Miss America pageant and said Donald Trump has a huge ego. She doesn't care for him much but said his daughter Ivanka is very nice.

[twonabomber]

I hope so. It will be interesting to see what they (Fiat) do at Chrysler dealerships.

i guess they'll be separate dealerships. local guy who got the Fiat store has his CDJ lot about 15 miles away from his main "campus," and the campus is where the Fiat store will be. it'll likely be in the flashy building built when he got the Mini store a few years ago.

they bring that 500 Abarth over, and i may end up with one. if it's good enough for Michael Schumacher, it's good enough for me. i think i have just enough room in the garage for a 500 behind my SRT-6.

there was some bad-ass looking Alfa coupe on Top Gear a couple years ago, i'll have to go back and see if i can find it. like to see one of those over here too.

[Nickdfresh]

Trump is a property developer. He's created quite a lot actually. He's turned several defunct buildings into successful office, hotel, and residential operations....

He's also claimed bankruptcy several times to liquidate debt...

[Little Texan]

they bring that 500 Abarth over, and i may end up with one. if it's good enough for Michael Schumacher, it's good enough for me. i think i have just enough room in the garage for a 500 behind my SRT-6.

I dunno, looks an awful lot like a VW Faux Beetle to me.

[PETE'S BROTHER]

i saw a pic somewhere of vw's new beetle body, definate improvement.

[twonabomber]

I dunno, looks an awful lot like a VW Faux Beetle to me.

for a little FWD car, it's fast. fast trumps looks.

this is an Abarth SS, hopefully we'll be able to upgrade a plain Abarth.

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[Nickdfresh]

I dunno, looks an awful lot like a VW Faux Beetle to me.

It's not. The 500 has been around for decades and is an evolution of style all its own. This might be a car I'd consider once it gets here. Hell, I like the Ford Fiesta a lot, and would like to see an SVT version...

[Nitro Express]

Fiat Deal Values Chrysler at Less Than Zero

Fiat won't accept a 35% stake in Chrysler unless the US adds another $3 billion to the $4 billion we've already "lent" to the "US" automaker, according to a story in the Wall Street Journal. Fiat isn't going to put any money of its own in, of course; no one in their right mind would. Cerberus Capital Management, currently owner of 80.1% of Chrysler isn't putting money in; Daimler, owns the rest but values it at zero.

So, without our putting additional money in, the owners can't even give away shares in the company; that means its current value must be somewhere south of zero. Since that's the case, please remind me why we're planning to put more money in?

We are in the process of treating Chrysler Financial, also owned by Cerberus, like a bank so we can shovel money in there so that people can buy Chryslers. If there were no Chrysler, we wouldn't have to worry about Chrysler Financial. We've also bailed out GM. We have a better hope of getting a return on that investment if Chrysler isn't taking sales from them. And we've bailed out GMAC "to help GM". We've even added money to the GM bailout so it can put more into GMAC. GMAC's majority owner is Cerberus – must be a coincidence.

Ford has so far avoided bailouts. They won't be able to do that forever if we keep bailing out their competitors.

The New York Times says the Fiat deal (they didn't report that it's contingent on more bailout money) "will bring Chrysler what it needs to be a viable player in the evolving United States market, with its fuel-efficient engine technology and the engineering that goes into its small cars." The deal allows Chrysler to make Fiat models in its US plants. The Times goes on to say "The Fiat brand suffered from a reputation for poor quality among American consumers. Fiat models still score below average in J. D. Power customer-satisfaction surveys in some European markets."

The real value of the Fiat deal is that it gives us a way to see what Chrysler is worth today AFTER we have already put $4 billion in: less than nothing. The best result of this announcement is if we act on the valuation, swallow our losses, move on, and let Chrysler fade away.

[Nitro Express]

Chrysler is still doing poorly and few people are going to be buying new cars with the economy the way it is. It looks like a neat little car though.

[twonabomber]

Fiat Deal Values Chrysler at Less Than Zero

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