U n c o n s t i t u t i o n a l

[Nitro Express]

I don't want the US to become socialist because we might become like the UK.

The UK and Ireland are the worst places to live in Europe, while France and Spain are the best, according to the latest uSwitch Quality of Life Index

The UK came 9th out of the 10 European countries in the Index, thanks to high living costs, below average government spending on health and education, short holidays and late retirement. The Index shows that people in France enjoy the highest quality of life, closely followed by Spain.

People in the UK pay the highest prices for food and diesel, yet the government spends below the European average (as a percentage of GDP) on health and education. We also work longer hours, retire later, receive less annual leave than most of our European counterparts and get less sunshine along the way - not to mention the fact that we can expect to die two years younger than our French counterparts.

The UK no longer has the highest net household income in Europe, after falling behind Ireland, the Netherlands and Denmark. In the past, the relatively high net income in the UK has offset the poor quality of life, but this year net household income it is only around £5000 above the European average, compared to £10,000 above last year.

[Seshmeister]

We haven't had a socialist government since 1979 and according to your quote that may be where we have gone wrong.

[Nitro Express]

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Not a fan of Maggie Thatcher I take it.

[Seshmeister]

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[ELVIS]

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[Seshmeister]

Great improvised solo on that one.

[Seshmeister]

I watched that live on TV at the time in 1986.

That version of Living Doll went to #1 in the UK and Australia.

[ELVIS]

I'm sorry to hear that...

[Seshmeister]

The UK I kind of understand because it was for a British charity event but those Aussies are crazy...

[Nickdfresh]

This is a great thing, because--very ironically enough--it's probably going to lead to a 'public option.' Much like Medicaid, Medicare, and my own beloved V.A. benefits...

[BigBadBrian]

This is a great thing, because--very ironically enough--it's probably going to lead to a 'public option.' Much like Medicaid, Medicare, and my own beloved V.A. benefits...

VA benefits are not a "public option." They are an employer (Uncle Sam) extending benefits to its employees (former members of the armed forces).

You may have a point about Medicare and Medicaid. However, I've seen enough of Medicare at work to know we don't want the government controlling our healthcare.

[Nickdfresh]

VA benefits are not a "public option." They are an employer (Uncle Sam) extending benefits to its employees (former members of the armed forces).

Well, how come all federal employees don't get "gov't run" health care, then? And in a sense, they're optional for ex-service members...

You may have a point about Medicare and Medicaid. However, I've seen enough of Medicare at work to know we don't want the government controlling our healthcare.

What are the alternatives?

[Terry]

This is a great thing, because--very ironically enough--it's probably going to lead to a 'public option.' Much like Medicaid, Medicare, and my own beloved V.A. benefits...

Which may well turn out to be necessary...however I must say I'm against fining people who opt not to have health insurance, much in the same way I was against making it mandatory for people to have auto insurance as a prerequisite to owning a car.

It should be the right of a free society to not purchase insurance, and if an accident or health crisis arises the person who didn't want the insurance can just pay through the nose for the repercussions.

[Seshmeister]

What if they don't have any money?

[Terry]

What if they don't have any money?

Then they can have their assets (house, personal belongings) liquidated by a court to pay for their hospital bills. If they have no assets...like, say, they're homeless with no prospects for future employment, well, then being presented with a whopping hospital bill isn't gonna really faze them.

Hey, I'm not advocating that not having insurance should be consequence-free should catastrophe strike someone without it. However, it shouldn't be mandated with a penalty free as punishment for not having it. People should have the choice not to purchase insurance without prejudice in terms of being unable to legally drive a car or receive medical treatment. They always have the option of paying full price out-of-pocket costs for their accidents or conditions.

Ideally, some basic form of decent medical treatment should be available to all, regardless of income. Thing of it is, too many people who already have insurance basically place too high a value on what they have (regardless of if it's actually any good or not) to want to change.

It's always easier in the short-term to do nothing, so that's what we as a nation will do: nothing.