Gun control + drugs

[Seshmeister]

Drug-Friendly Netherlands to Close 8 Prisons -- Not Enough Crime


Bruce Mirken
Opposing Views

For years prohibitionists, including our own Drug Enforcement Administration, have claimed — falsely — that the tolerant marijuana policies of the Netherlands have made that nation a nest of crime and drug abuse. They may have trouble wrapping their little brains around this:

The Dutch government is getting ready to close eight prisons because they don’t have enough criminals to fill them. Officials attribute the shortage of prisoners to a declining crime rate.

Just for fun, let’s compare the Netherlands to California. With a population of 16.6 million, the Dutch prison population is about 12,000. With its population of 36.7 million, California should have a bit more than double the Dutch prison population. California’s actual prison population is 171,000.

So, whose drug policies are keeping the streets safer?

http://vorige.nrc.nl/international/article2246821.ece/Netherlands_to_close_prisons_for_lack_of_criminals

http://www.activistpost.com/2011/01/drug-friendly-netherlands-to-close-8.html

[binnie]

Interesting stuff.

I have always been in favour of drugs being legalized and controlled - I think we need to accept the fact that there will ALWAYS be people who are (sadly) addicted to drugs, and work the problem from that perspective rather than assuming we can eradicate all drug use. If drugs were legal - and therefore considerably cheaper - users/addicts wouldn't have to commit crimes to fund their habits. Moreover, considerable sums of money would be out of the hands of organized criminals. More importantly, we could work towards treating people who want to get clean: a year of treatment is probably cheaper than a year in prison for the state (reports on this vary, in my experience.)

That being said, there is a problem with crude statistics like those quoted in the article. They assume all other things are equal. What we need to know concerns wider social patterns: do the Dutch have lower divorce rates, higher levels of two parent homes, and superior education systems? Those things must contribute in some way to the use of drugs and the pattern of crime. Legalization wouldn't solve all problems in American and English societies.

[ELVIS]

Gun control ??

[Seshmeister]

Gun control ??

Let me lead you gently to the information...

Netherlands

Dutch gun law is typical of the Western European approach. Firearm possession is not subject to any constitutional protections, but regulated simply in the Arms and Ammunition Act (Wet Wapens en Munitie). Weapons, including firearms, are divided into four categories, and for each of the categories a certain maximum punishment is set for "voorhanden hebben" (possession), and "dragen" (carrying in public).
Only citizens who are hunters, members of shooting sports clubs or legitimate collectors may obtain licenses for firearms. In the case of shooting club members they will get a license for category III weapons (a firearms category which includes all non- full automatic firearms up to .50 cal.). Possession is generally limited to 5 firearms per license. Collectors may obtain a license for any category of firearm, including full automatic arms, but stringent rules apply to achieving collector status. There is no limit to the number of firearms a collector may obtain. Generally the collector license does not cover shooting these weapons.
Sale/Use is only for those age 18 or over. There are a few dozen gunshops in the Netherlands. Gun ownership is extremely low with only three firearms per hundred people.

[Seshmeister]

That being said, there is a problem with crude statistics like those quoted in the article. They assume all other things are equal. What we need to know concerns wider social patterns: do the Dutch have lower divorce rates, higher levels of two parent homes, and superior education systems? Those things must contribute in some way to the use of drugs and the pattern of crime. Legalization wouldn't solve all problems in American and English societies.

Fair enough but when you get to a statistic of 15 times the prison population...

http://www.hrw.org/legacy/backgrounder/usa/incarceration/

Perhaps the single greatest force behind the growth of the prison population has been the national "war on drugs." The number of incarcerated drug offenders has increased twelvefold since 1980. In 2000, 22 percent of those in federal and state prisons were convicted on drug charges.

That 22% doesn't include all the turf war crimes caused by drug laws.

[ELVIS]

Drug prohibition is the real problem...

[Nitro Express]

Half our country jail is shut down due to a lack of crime and we have some the most liberal gun laws in the country.

[Seshmeister]

That's because no one lives there.

[ELVIS]

Cheney lives there...

[Mushroom]

what's not being stated is the fact that the US has a larger segment of society that is much more violent.

[ELVIS]

Why are we more violent, because of the things Rush Limbaugh says ??

[Jagermeister]

Why are we more violent, because of the things Rush Limbaugh says ??

[ELVIS]

That's what we're being told!

[binnie]

Why are we more violent, because of the things Rush Limbaugh says ??

No, its because it's illegal for you guys to smoke pot :D

[Seshmeister]

Cheney lives there...

That's probably why most other people left.