Egypt, Yemen, Tunisia,

[Nitro Express]

That's what they're sort of trying to do. But then, how do you arrest the leaders of a largely leaderless movement? And it seems the security forces may be showing signs they're no longer following orders...

Leaderless movements can't accomplish anything. Sure people can take to the streets, break windows, set cars on fire but then comes in the military and they are mowed down. If enough of the military refuse to follow orders then that changes things.

What usually happens is the president promotes family members and friends and the finance minister and generals fear for their jobs. They collude and over throw the government. Usually calls are placed to world banking power brokers who then give their blessing in exchange for a few banana plantations or some kind of favoritism. Then the government changes.

The power brokers really don't care what kind of atrocities are committed as long as the person in charge serves their interests. The US could care less about what Saddam was doing when Iran was the major concern and Saddam was viewed as an asset. He only became the bad guy when the powers that be wanted to steal his oil and set up large military bases there.

Governments only care about power because they are power. They are usually controlled by bought off politicians. This is why you don't give a government any more power than is necessary. They are hopelessly corrupt.

[Nitro Express]

It has been reported over the day that people are using dial-up to get Internet access. Fucking snail slow, but it's access nonetheless. So is dial-up a backup emergency plan everyone should keep the ability to access?

There is zero chance I could use dial-up because I don't even have a live phone line coming in to my house. Haven't in about 5 years. Only phone I have is my cell phone, and my only Internet is through the cable provider. Long gone are the days of the very first thing you do when you move is setup the phone line and plug in your answering machine.

I don't really stockpile anything in case of major civil unrest or catastrophe. But a phone line might not be a bad idea. Cause even if electricity is totally gone, phone lines still work.



come to think of it, I don't think my computer even has a way to connect to a phone line...and I know I don't have a cord anywhere even if it did.

Yeah. I was working for American Express in downtown Salt Lake City when an F4 tornado ripped through downtown. I actually watched it bounce up the foothills like a top pulling big trees out of the ground, exploding transformers, taking roofs off. I then grabbed my cell phone to call my wife and it wasn't working. I had Voice Stream but everyone else in the building with different providers had the same problem. I then picked up the land line and it still worked.

I think the best thing to have in an emergency is a backpack full of food, water, something to stay dry and warm with, a good knife, something to start a fire with. Something you can grab quick and get out and live off of for a few days. I like to backpack in the back country of Yellowstone National Park so I always have my pack stocked and ready to go if there is an emergency. One fun exercise is in the middle of winter, pull the main breaker for the house and see how you fare for one day. Kids always freak out because they are so gizmo and computer addicted. It's a good way to test how prepared you are.

[Nitro Express]

One of the best assets I've discovered backpacking is those portable water sterilization pumps. Those are great. The only problem I've had was snow camping in -20 weather with the Boy Scouts and having it freeze getting water out of the creek. You should always keep some bleach on hand because a small amount can be used to sterilize water. Clean water is one of the biggest challenges in an emergency situation and contaminated water can make you sick and put you down in a hurry. I took my pump to Guatemala on a pack packing trip and used it in some scary water. I put bleach in the water and then ran it through the pump. I never got the shits.

[Blaze]

NE,
you are gravely wrong.
Leaderless organizations create imagined leaders, similar to WWJD.
If the chosen have taken to the streets due to a conceptual issue, such as corruption, they are following a conceptual leader. Therefore do not need a physical leader.
A struggle again corruption is not a figure head necessity.

[Satan]

Common thread here with Egypt and Yemen (aside from being Middle Eastern Muslim cultures) is that both countries have had corrupt leaders for the past 30 years.

Maybe the US needs to learn the lesson here?

[Blaze]

Corruption is an issue any one can partake. One chooses to receive or reject corruption.
I am sorry what is happening; however, human choice is corruption or confadaunce (sp?)
Confadance is not the same as secrets.
Peace be unto all.

[Nitro Express]

NE,
you are gravely wrong.
Leaderless organizations create imagined leaders, similar to WWJD.
If the chosen have taken to the streets due to a conceptual issue, such as corruption, they are following a conceptual leader. Therefore do not need a physical leader.
A struggle again corruption is not a figure head necessity.

I would say it's a common motivator or a common goal. In reality nothing gets done without leadership especially large things. Without leadership you don't have organizational structure. On a very small scale things work without a leader if you have decent motivated people but on a large scale it just doesn't work.

[Nitro Express]

One of the problems with countries; including this one is we don't have real leaders. We have paid puppets. A real leader will be the last to sleep, the last to eat, will go without until everyone else is taken care of. A leaders true responsibility is to make sure the whole is working and not to take from the whole and isolate themselves.

[sadaist]

Mubarak should just come out & say we will have new open Presidential elections in 90 days. At that time I will not run for a 6th term & will step down. The shitstorm would calm down, lives would be saved, Egypt would get a leader they want (as long as the elections aren't rigged), and he would save a little face.

He was done in October anyways. What's the big fucking deal moving it up by 4-5 months? This also prevents the current strongest faction rioting from taking the leadership by force & fucking Egypt even more so.

And turn back on the Internet & cellular services immediately.

If it were truly what was in the best interests of his country & countrymen, and not about hanging on to every ounce of power he can, he would have done this days ago.

I hope everything ends up in a good place for Egypt. It's on my dream list of places to visit in my lifetime. My bucket list.

[Hardrock69]

The interesting thing is the reputation the military have. All males between 18 and 30 are required to serve at least one year.

And the military has a history of overthrowing dictators in order to establish democratic rule. So even though they have been called out, they have been welcomed by the protesters, and are not beating them down. It is the police service that is hated by the people, which is why they have been looting all the police stations, while the military stand by doing nothing, and as a result are not being attacked by the public.

It is inevitable that Mubarek step down. I mean, what the fuck is he going to do, try to retain power while the entire country is rebelling against him?

I hope it all works out well also. I hope that any replacement for the current regime is a more free and open society, with no militant religious zealots fucking shit up.

[SunisinuS]

Mubarak should just come out & say we will have new open Presidential elections in 90 days. At that time I will not run for a 6th term & will step down. The shitstorm would calm down, lives would be saved, Egypt would get a leader they want (as long as the elections aren't rigged), and he would save a little face.

He was done in October anyways. What's the big fucking deal moving it up by 4-5 months? This also prevents the current strongest faction rioting from taking the leadership by force & fucking Egypt even more so.

And turn back on the Internet & cellular services immediately.

If it were truly what was in the best interests of his country & countrymen, and not about hanging on to every ounce of power he can, he would have done this days ago.

I hope everything ends up in a good place for Egypt. It's on my dream list of places to visit in my lifetime. My bucket list.

Exactly......I have always wanted to visit Egypt and have been denied because of my color. I have waited for years to visit that place and India as well but until they stop hurting everyone that looks different (I refuse to put a Maple Leaf on my backpack) I said I will not travel there. Lol even if I dye my hair I still look Nordic. It is time Mr. Mub. And as far as the military is concerned....I know of only one Military that has been a pillar of democracy: The US Military. No Coups....No Bananna Republic....and Kent State is enshrined in their mind also.

[Nitro Express]

You don't have to put a maple leaf on your backpack. If you are overseas and you are asked questions about politics, just say it's all ran by corrupt politicians. Everyone agrees with that. I saw a warm friendly situation in Columbia turn sour because I said I liked a certain US President. If I just said, I don't care for politicians in general things would have been cool. Just avoid talking politics and religion. What really warms people up is talking about what you enjoy in their country. People everywhere appreciate that and you can learn a lot.

[Nitro Express]

Maybe Murbarak is a puppet and the objective is to stir the shit. Maybe bigger forces than Murbarak want a revolution in Egypt and to stir the whole middle east up. Why? The western world's economy has tanked and the politicians have no solutions. People have woken up that the banks have stolen the citizens money. When politicians have no solutions they take you to war. They use war as a distraction. Not everyone wants peace. Some people gain a lot from war, especially bankers.

[Nitro Express]

The interesting thing is the reputation the military have. All males between 18 and 30 are required to serve at least one year.

And the military has a history of overthrowing dictators in order to establish democratic rule. So even though they have been called out, they have been welcomed by the protesters, and are not beating them down. It is the police service that is hated by the people, which is why they have been looting all the police stations, while the military stand by doing nothing, and as a result are not being attacked by the public.

It is inevitable that Mubarek step down. I mean, what the fuck is he going to do, try to retain power while the entire country is rebelling against him?

I hope it all works out well also. I hope that any replacement for the current regime is a more free and open society, with no militant religious zealots fucking shit up.

The middle east traditionally has been under the control of Islamic clerics or dictators. I think the big catalyst for change may be free access to the internet. In the past many people only knew what was being told in the local community and so they have a biased view of how things are and how they should be. Now with the internet it opens up a whole new universe and maybe these people want something new instead of the old ways of doing things.

[sadaist]

Kinda gay, but I've always wanted to ride a camel at the pyramids. I have a friend who is Kuwaiti & he laughs at me when I say that. He says "dude, have you ever ridden a camel? Do you not realize what that fucker will try to do? You will be sore for a week!" I guess they are really mean & nasty too. But hey, that makes it sound even better. Telling the grandkids someday that the scar on my arm is from a scrap I got into with a camel while in front of the great pyramids.

Or swim in the Nile River & shout "Sammy Hagar was never in Van Halen!".