ron paul=awesome/kickass?

[Nitro Express]

Since when is using public money to bail out mismanaged and corrupt businesses a good thing? What the banks did was convince the government to make 100 times leverage legal. Here's a true story. The banks approved a $750,000 mortgage to a person in California who didn't make the income to legitimately be approved. It didn't matter they just wanted to sell mortgages and so they take that $750,000 mortgage and they can count it as an asset to make loans on. 100 more loans thanks to Bill Clinton and Alan Greenspan. So they make $75 million out of nothing while everyone get's foreclosed on and then they buy everything up cheap and resell it again. Then you stick the loses on the taxpayer.

Exactly how is TARP a good thing when it will saddle generations of Americans in so much debt, nobody is going to be able to pay it off. If we would have let these corrupt institutions fail then sure, it would be a couple years of pain but then you pull out of it for good instead of prolonging it for decades which is what they are doing now.

Of course if you are part of the American public who pay no taxes I guess you don't care.

[Nitro Express]

Do you really want to make someone president who runs out a room just because someone's pants have fallen down?

Who is that?

[knuckleboner]

Since when is using public money to bail out mismanaged and corrupt businesses a good thing? What the banks did was convince the government to make 100 times leverage legal. Here's a true story. The banks approved a $750,000 mortgage to a person in California who didn't make the income to legitimately be approved. It didn't matter they just wanted to sell mortgages and so they take that $750,000 mortgage and they can count it as an asset to make loans on. 100 more loans thanks to Bill Clinton and Alan Greenspan. So they make $75 million out of nothing while everyone get's foreclosed on and then they buy everything up cheap and resell it again. Then you stick the loses on the taxpayer.

Exactly how is TARP a good thing when it will saddle generations of Americans in so much debt, nobody is going to be able to pay it off. If we would have let these corrupt institutions fail then sure, it would be a couple years of pain but then you pull out of it for good instead of prolonging it for decades which is what they are doing now.

Of course if you are part of the American public who pay no taxes I guess you don't care.

dude, it was a damned if we do, damned if we don't moment. but the damned if we don't was damn near eternal damnation.

i won't argue whether or not the banks were corrupt, greedy, stupid, risky, illegal, whatever. yes, regardless, they at the least acted very poorly, and by themselves, they certainly deserved to fail.

but seriously, without TARP, a LOT of banks fail. and a lot of people lose their savings. and i'm not talking about 401ks, where you expect the value to go up and down, at least to some extent. i'm talking about a run on the banks where people lose cash in accounts. and a complete lack of lending credit. this is DANGER ZONE for the economy.

millions more would have lost their jobs. no joke. millions. in the worst of the recession we did have, 700,000 lost their jobs each month for 3 months straight. 2 million jobs lost in 90 days. if credit got a lot worse, and if big banks failed, you would literally have added millions more to that total.

so if you want to argue how bad the banks were, great; i won't disagree. but by the time september 2008 rolled around, all that shit was moot. already happened. so it was up to the choice of the lesser of 2 evils. and not doing TARP (or something similar) would've been WAY more evil.

[sadaist]

I swear we had this exact conversation the last time Van Halen toured. Deja Vu.

[sadaist]

Or 'Vuja De'......the feeling that none of this has ever happened before?

[knuckleboner]

I swear we had this exact conversation the last time Van Halen toured. Deja Vu.

dude, i think the only discussion we HAVEN'T had in the front line before, is the, "meghan mccain or huntsman daughters."

but the tour doesn't start for another month, so we've still got time...

[Seshmeister]

I don't have the figures but I wonder if instead of propping up the banks the government(s) had just protected people up to say $250k on any savings they had in a failed bank then it would have been a hell of a lot cheaper and allowed the deadwood to go. There would be very little bad feeling about the government bailing out losses by people who had not acted badly rather than giving huge sums to the bastards that caused the problem and who are still sticking multi million dollar bonuses into their greedy thieving pockets.

[Nitro Express]

dude, it was a damned if we do, damned if we don't moment. but the damned if we don't was damn near eternal damnation.

i won't argue whether or not the banks were corrupt, greedy, stupid, risky, illegal, whatever. yes, regardless, they at the least acted very poorly, and by themselves, they certainly deserved to fail.

but seriously, without TARP, a LOT of banks fail. and a lot of people lose their savings. and i'm not talking about 401ks, where you expect the value to go up and down, at least to some extent. i'm talking about a run on the banks where people lose cash in accounts. and a complete lack of lending credit. this is DANGER ZONE for the economy.

millions more would have lost their jobs. no joke. millions. in the worst of the recession we did have, 700,000 lost their jobs each month for 3 months straight. 2 million jobs lost in 90 days. if credit got a lot worse, and if big banks failed, you would literally have added millions more to that total.

so if you want to argue how bad the banks were, great; i won't disagree. but by the time september 2008 rolled around, all that shit was moot. already happened. so it was up to the choice of the lesser of 2 evils. and not doing TARP (or something similar) would've been WAY more evil.

You only have to look at other countries. Sweden let the banks fail and they went through a tough time but recovered. Japan bailed them out and their economy never recovered in two decades. By letting the losers fail you have a faster recovery. You have to get rid of the bad wood. You have to kill the termites or they eat the whole house. I'm sorry but when you spend more than you have or your central bank prints too much funny money there's going to be some pain. No way around it but if you continue to print funny money and you throw the good money after bad, you eliminate some short term pain but create a worse long-term situation.

Of course the politicians are going to go for the short-term solution and kick the can down the road. It's what they do. We are now at the point where we can't kick the can any longer. Historically when they politicians have no solutions they take you to war and looky looky what's happening now. If we just let the losers fail, we could have avoided all this.

[Seshmeister]

Who is that?

http://www.metacafe.com/watch/an-ylrAbJ724hbb7Y/bruno_2009_ron_paul_interview/

[Seshmeister]

They are having to come up with new words for the debt Japan is in.

Quadrillions.

1 000 000 000 000 000 yen in debt.

http://www.marketwatch.com/story/japans-debt-to-exceed-1-quadrillion-yen-report-2011-11-07

A quadrillion pennies looks like this.

[FORD]

dude, i think the only discussion we HAVEN'T had in the front line before, is the, "meghan mccain or huntsman daughters."

but the tour doesn't start for another month, so we've still got time...

These are Huntsman's kids?? Holy Elohim!

[Nitro Express]

I don't have the figures but I wonder if instead of propping up the banks the government(s) had just protected people up to say $250k on any savings they had in a failed bank then it would have been a hell of a lot cheaper and allowed the deadwood to go. There would be very little bad feeling about the government bailing out losses by people who had not acted badly rather than giving huge sums to the bastards that caused the problem and who are still sticking multi million dollar bonuses into their greedy thieving pockets.

Exactly. In Occupy Wall Street terms we bailed out the 1% and stuck it to the 99%. Let's just say it's welfare for the rich. Giving the FDIC insurance settlements would have been far cheaper.

[Nitro Express]

These are Huntsman's kids?? Holy Elohim!

The one redeeming value of the Mormon church is there is no shortage of pretty girls in it. Then as David Lee Roth said in his book, they couldn't wait to get to Utah because of the women there. Religious oppression brings in great rebellion. I had many good times in the beehive state. Max if he was still with us would agree I'm sure. Utah actually is a good place to get laid. The problem is these girls go through their rebellious stage but too many marry another Mormon and get sucked back into it and pop out a bunch of kids. To leave you basically have to disown your family and most just can't do it.

Actually these young girls are used as bait by the church leaders. They will tell them not to marry anyone who is not a returned missionary and they get a bunch of horny young guys to give up two years of their youth slaving for the church in hopes to score one of those cute things. They control these people with sex. It's a pretty sick system once you learn how it works. It's how they keep the next generation in the cult because only disturbed people like Glenn Beck convert to Mormonism these days. Everyone else knows it's a silly cult.

It's one of those things that makes you think the sane reality is somewhere else in the universe and what's going on here is down in some strange rabbit hole you fell into. This world is truly nuts and with the increase of technology, it becomes just more insane. LOL!

The older I get the more I realize I'm glad I rolled one on and had a good time allowing a Mormon maiden to live a little before she went back to the prison waiting for her.

[Nitro Express]

They are having to come up with new words for the debt Japan is in.

Quadrillions.

1 000 000 000 000 000 yen in debt.

http://www.marketwatch.com/story/japans-debt-to-exceed-1-quadrillion-yen-report-2011-11-07

A quadrillion pennies looks like this.

The problem is the world financial system due to leverage and printing money from thin air has gotten out of touch with reality. The math no longer makes sense. Money should be an IOU based on real goods. Once it becomes pure fantasy and speculation it no longer works. It's easier to buy political influence and move money around than actually making real goods and selling them. That's why and investment banker once joked to me he could teach a dog on a three day weekend to be an investment banker. I've never heard anyone running a real productive operation ever joke that it was easy.

After World War II it was universally agreed with the Brenton Woods Accord that the US, U.K., and France would run the world financial system until 1996. When that expired those same countries still wanted to be in charge of things and nothing else has been set up. I'm sure there is a lot of infighting between Asia (Where the real money is) and the west (Where the world's biggest debtor nations are) that we don't see.

The reality is we are going into a stage now that people don't trust paper anymore. Once you no longer can trust some of the oldest and biggest institutions in finance the system has been compromised. People can't make any interest in banks so they are buying real assets now. We are going to go into more of a commodities economy than a paper economy but the paper economy owns most the politicians and is trying to take over the commodities side. If you work in agriculture you certainly see this. So what we are seeing is a failed paper economy pulling out all the stops to stay relevant even if they have to start more wars to do it.

It's one big mess and the only way to solve short of settling it out in an all out world war is to erase a ton of debt but of course the bankers don't want that.

[Dr. Love]

A lot can change in 4 years.