ron paul=awesome/kickass?

[Dr. Love]

Aw....I take back all the bad things I yell at my computer screen about you

No need for surprise.



I already posted that I believe in helping the less fortunate.

[ELVIS]

Like wow 'n stuff...

[kwame k]

No. Liberty is the ability to do whatever you want, so long as you don't harm someone else.

Uh, yeah but shouldn't we as a nation be morally obligated to help people? Why is it wrong to have social programs?

uh ... I'm not sure how you think this country actually functions in light of that statement. That's certainly not how it works.

The will of the people isn't dealt with in Washington

Yes, I do think there's enough charity to cover all the people who are truly needy. That's a very appropriate way of putting it.

Sure, that's why people are living in tents and children are only getting meals in school because charities are covering all 'em. People are just too stupid to know where to go to get this bonanza of charity.

If they are, it's because they've chosen not to seek help from the programs that our communities have put together to help them.

Well, I'm glad everything is rosy in Texas.......I guess if it's not in your eyesight, then the rest of the country's problems don't exist.

Move. Go somewhere else and start over. People need to pick themselves up and take control of their own lives and their own destiny.

Some people can't just move for a myriad reasons. I know people working 5 jobs between both parents just to survive and it's wrong. If you're so callous to believe people are getting exactly what they deserve then I really underestimated you as a person.

There are very few people that lack the ability to improve their own lives. If you have the ability and still do not do it, then that is a choice.

I agree.....but it's the very few that I think should be helped. It's the leaches and generational welfare recipients that need to get off their asses and work.

I'd love to see a work for welfare program....like FDR had. It helped needy people while benefiting the country.

Ron Paul is on the record as refusing to take part in the congressional pension plan or health care plan, and in fact calls it hypocritical for other republicans to take the healthcare plan for themselves while fighting against letting the people have it (he thinks congress shouldn't have it either).

Next time a little research would go a long way.

Lighten up Francis.....it was sarcasm.

Yes, that's really what you said. You cut out the very next line which refutes what you quoted.

I know what I said and it was nowhere near where you tried to take it. Nice try though

[kwame k]

No need for surprise.



I already posted that I believe in helping the less fortunate.

So do I......

[Dr. Love]

Uh, yeah but shouldn't we as a nation be morally obligated to help people? Why is it wrong to have social programs?

Big difference between morally and legally

Sure, that's why people are living in tents and children are only getting meals in school because charities are covering all 'em. People are just too stupid to know where to go to get this bonanza of charity.

So charities are covering them all.

Well, I'm glad everything is rosy in Texas.......I guess if it's not in your eyesight, then the rest of the country's problems don't exist.



Some people can't just move for a myriad reasons. I know people working 5 jobs between both parents just to survive and it's wrong. If you're so callous to believe people are getting exactly what they deserve then I really underestimated you as a person.

I never said people shouldn't help each other, but I did say that people shouldn't be legally required to financially support each other either.

I agree.....but it's the very few that I think should be helped. It's the leaches and generational welfare recipients that need to get off their asses and work.

Let the states take care of the truly needy. Wards of the state.

I'd love to see a work for welfare program....like FDR had. It helped needy people while benefiting the country.

Depends on the kind of work.

Lighten up Francis.....it was sarcasm.

I can never tell unless you use the "I'm intentionally being a giant douche" smiley.



Like Lounge.

[ELVIS]

Uh, yeah but shouldn't we as a nation be morally obligated to help people?

Hell fucking NO!!!

Morally obgligated ??

Based on what ??

[Nitro Express]

If you can't work. If you have no family to help you. Then maybe the moral thing to do is have the nation help you.

[kwame k]

Big difference between morally and legally

Semantics, I guess. I really have no problem with part of our tax dollars being used to help the needy. Morally I think it's the right thing to do. The abuse and fraud that's in the current system needs to be fixed but ending all social programs and saying, "Fuck you! I got mine get yours", isn't a mentality I subscribe to.

So charities are covering them all.

No, if charities were covering them all they won't be in the mess they are in now. Create jobs and most of this will go away. With the exception of a small few......most people want to earn a living and make it on their own. What Washington has been doing is allowing corporations to abuse the system to their benefit.

I never said people shouldn't help each other, but I did say that people shouldn't be legally required to financially support each other either.

OK, Johnny Liberty.......how do we decide what our tax dollars are spent on. If I disagree with the wars should I be able to deduct that from my taxes. What if I don't want roads, utilities, safe food, work place security.....should I be able to line item deduct that from my taxes?

Let the states take care of the truly needy. Wards of the state.

Most of the States do that.....in conjunction with our Federal government.

Depends on the kind of work.

Public works projects like FDR did.

I can never tell unless you use the "I'm intentionally being a giant douche" smiley.

Like Lounge.

Now I'm a douche because I don't believe in your fairy tales?



There..better?

[kwame k]

Hell fucking NO!!!

Morally obgligated ??

Based on what ??

You know the good parts of that Book you supposedly believe in

[kwame k]

If you can't work. If you have no family to help you. Then maybe the moral thing to do is have the nation help you.

We're the richest nation in the world.....why can't we help our own?

You and I may never need help or even ask for it. I never have and never would.

I just like the idea that we as a nation can look to the greater good and help our fellow man in times of need. Stop a child from starving, give him an education and all that jazz.

If we become a nation of, "Fuck you, I got mine go get yours", then the bigger ideals and ideas we've had are lost.

The country was founded on big ideas and the greater good. We've stumbled, like with slavery but we've always been a nation striving for the good of all people.

I could bitch about how much more I have to pay in taxes, being self-employed and I do but to pay a little bit that might help another American.....I really don't mind that.

Funding wars and oil subsidies for companies making billions of dollars in profit.....not a fan. Help a family that needs help.....big fan.

[Dr. Love]

Semantics, I guess. I really have no problem with part of our tax dollars being used to help the needy. Morally I think it's the right thing to do. The abuse and fraud that's in the current system needs to be fixed but ending all social programs and saying, "Fuck you! I got mine get yours", isn't a mentality I subscribe to.

There is a big amount of ideological distance between "I don't believe in funding social programs with tax payer money" and "Fuck you! I got mine get yours." with plenty of room for people to believe in helping others without being legally obligated to do so.

No, if charities were covering them all they won't be in the mess they are in now. Create jobs and most of this will go away. With the exception of a small few......most people want to earn a living and make it on their own. What Washington has been doing is allowing corporations to abuse the system to their benefit.

I don't think it's that simple. I don't disagree that those are contributing factors.

OK, Johnny Liberty.......how do we decide what our tax dollars are spent on. If I disagree with the wars should I be able to deduct that from my taxes. What if I don't want roads, utilities, safe food, work place security.....should I be able to line item deduct that from my taxes?

At the risk of eliciting Nick's ire... we could stick to what the constitution authorizes, for a start. If you don't want to pay for the "wars", that might be the best place for you to push.

Most of the States do that.....in conjunction with our Federal government.

That's not their job.

Public works projects like FDR did.

I dunno, maybe. Texas got a huge amount of money from the federal government to build new freeways.

Now I'm a douche because I don't believe in your fairy tales?



There..better?

I don't think you're doing it right

[Dr. Love]

We're the richest nation in the world.....why can't we help our own?

You and I may never need help or even ask for it. I never have and never would.

I just like the idea that we as a nation can look to the greater good and help our fellow man in times of need. Stop a child from starving, give him an education and all that jazz.

If we become a nation of, "Fuck you, I got mine go get yours", then the bigger ideals and ideas we've had are lost.

The country was founded on big ideas and the greater good. We've stumbled, like with slavery but we've always been a nation striving for the good of all people.

I could bitch about how much more I have to pay in taxes, being self-employed and I do but to pay a little bit that might help another American.....I really don't mind that.

Funding wars and oil subsidies for companies making billions of dollars in profit.....not a fan. Help a family that needs help.....big fan.

Because we can't afford it since we spend so much money overseas, for starters.

Bring the troops home, end the wars, scale back the military budget and I would be entirely on board with focusing the money here for the next decade. But at some point we need to remember we're the land of opportunity, not the land of entitlement.

There's a completely different way to look at this. People are on hard times right now because there's employment problems. Companies aren't hiring enough because people aren't buying enough because people don't have enough money because people took on too much debt.

You could certainly go to the government and say, take money from the people making money and use it to support the people not making money. They'll buy the basics and try to survive. And largely, this seems to make sense.

You could take a different tract, though. Reduce (or better, eliminate) the federal income tax, shrinking the expenditures of the government to support the cut (military and overseas spending, for one). Give people back their 15 - 35% of their income. Most of these people would in turn spend their excess money in their local economies, stimulating local growth and promoting hiring as business tries to compete for the sudden infusion of cash.

Combine that with the return of hundreds of thousands of additional consumers locally would further stimulate growth.

I would personally be fine with either approach: the former for a short period of time, the latter for the longer term.

[ELVIS]

The country was founded on big ideas and the greater good.

That's total fucking bullshit that you obviously made up yourself...

This nation was founded on ideals called the unalienable rights to "life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness."

[LoungeMachine]

Hell fucking NO!!!

Morally obgligated ??

Based on what ??

The Bible?

Jesus?



God is ashamed of you, you know that, right?

[kwame k]

There is a big amount of ideological distance between "I don't believe in funding social programs with tax payer money" and "Fuck you! I got mine get yours." with plenty of room for people to believe in helping others without being legally obligated to do so.

I have no doubt that people have and will help people in their time of need.

We differ in what we see as the role of government.......I don't believe we should ever be a welfare nation but when extreme circumstances arise, like the recession, we should use our resources to help.

Government doing good with our tax dollars? The horror!

I don't think it's that simple. I don't disagree that those are contributing factors.

None of this is black and white but you have to admit when unemployment is low and a living wage is maintained, social serves decline in use.

Here, I'll throw you a bone, Doc........I agree with Grandpa Paul when he said if you had a decent job you could afford health care, drive down costs and make your own choices.

At the risk of eliciting Nick's ire... we could stick to what the constitution authorizes, for a start. If you don't want to pay for the "wars", that might be the best place for you to push.

Sure, the peace movement is really kicking ass and taking names, that's where I'll start!



Did I do it right?

That's not their job.

Why not? Our own government can't aid and assist us in times of need......

I dunno, maybe. Texas got a huge amount of money from the federal government to build new freeways.

If we invested in upgrading the inefficient electrical grid, if we repaired the roads and bridges, built our generation's Hoover Dam type thingy.....fuck! The list is endless of what we could do to....you know, benefit us all. A win, win situation.

I don't think you're doing it right

My heart's really not in it........same with the primaries and general election