'International Permission’ Trumps Congressional Permission For Military Actions

[Nickdfresh]

You see, that "kinetic military action" in Libya that was supposed to take "days, not weeks", but took nearly a year, was in fact WAR in the mind of sane americans...

Gaddafi fell seven months after declaration of the no-fly-zone with most of the heavy fighting after six...

So now we have Panetta basically telling congress that he and Oblama can perform another "kinetic military action" in Syria having "options" regarding where authorization might come from...

Um, no. He's just heading off the notion that any possible military action would a unilateral U.S. one...

Well, knuckleheader...

That authorization can only legally come from the Congress of the United States...

Actually, the Executive branch has options for conducting limited military incursions without Congressional authorization, though that is not recommended...

[ELVIS]

Dude, they are marching our troops into world war three against the will of "we the people" or our representatives....

[ELVIS]

Say that again reeeaaallllyyyy sllllooooowwwww for these mouthbreathing 'tards lookin' to nitpick at the slightest excuse so they can rationalize voting for Rummny while holding their nose....

I'm not voting for Ro-money...

[Dr. Love]

You're completely insane. Nothing will make you happy. Would you prefer we blundered into Iraqs and Vietnams without the slightest inclination that these things are not very good ideas.

Easy fix. If we want to commit acts of war, then we should declare war first.

The reason it doesn't happen is that (outside of Afghanistan in 2001) the Congress wouldn't pass declarations of war because the majority of the people would be opposed.

[knuckleboner]

Dude, they are marching our troops into world war three against the will of "we the people" or our representatives....

nick is right.

whether it's right or wrong, it's nothing new. under your argument the country's been fucked since korea...

[ELVIS]

under your argument the country's been fucked since korea...

There is an argument there...

But the federal government is like a dog, give an inch and they take a mile...

Time to reel some of this crap in...

[knuckleboner]

Easy fix. If we want to commit acts of war, then we should declare war first.

The reason it doesn't happen is that (outside of Afghanistan in 2001) the Congress wouldn't pass declarations of war because the majority of the people would be opposed.

i would strongly support a law that broadly defined what constituted military action and required any president to get congressional authorization after a very short time period. i think i'd set it at a month. as opposed to the current near-indefinite permissible actions.

[knuckleboner]

There is an argument there...

But the federal government is like a dog, give an inch and they take a mile...

Time to reel some of this crap in...

fair enough. though i was just trying to point out that if you're really upset about the situation outlined in the original post, then you should've been really upset for your entire life, since these things have been going on since the 40s. it doesn't mean we can't or shouldn't improve. but it also doesn't mean the situation is so much different than before. it's not.

[ELVIS]

It's getting more and more that the gederal government seems to think it can do whatever it wants...

[Nickdfresh]

Dude, they are marching our troops into world war three against the will of "we the people" or our representatives....

What does that have to do with the trite statements above? The gov't has always done that! WTF does U.N. rhetoric have to do with anything? Remember a war called Korea? We even fought under the U.N. flag, and that was in the very early 1950's. I think it would be hard to argue that led to any sort of "one world gov't" conspiracy crap...

[Nitro Express]

What does that have to do with the trite statements above? The gov't has always done that! WTF does U.N. rhetoric have to do with anything? Remember a war called Korea? We even fought under the U.N. flag, and that was in the very early 1950's. I think it would be hard to argue that led to any sort of "one world gov't" conspiracy crap...

In 1947 the National Security Act was passed and it made national security the prime focus. The US Constitution started to be ignored around 1913. The income tax and federal reserve act were unconstitutional as was the NSA Act of 1947. So they have been rolling over the Constitution for almost 100 years. The NSA Act opened us up to participating in police actions and not declared wars. It has not been a good thing. What did we ever accomplish during the Vietnam war? It got the country into debt and got a bunch of people killed. We lost the war and now you can enjoy a nice beach vacation in Vietnam and we trade with them. Honestly. I have no idea why we trade with Vietnam and China but not Cuba. It's all such a fucking joke.

The funny thing is the federal income tax only legally applies to The District of Columbia and Puerto Rico but everyone has paid over the years due to fear of a federal judge ruling against you. Then the Federal Reserve Bank charter expires next year. Will it be renewed? Does it even matter?

George Carlin was right when he said power does what power wants to do.

A lot of things have been "unconstitutional" or illegal over the years but unless you can win in court or convince enough people it's wrong or bully the government down, you have to comply or else.

[Nitro Express]

What does that have to do with the trite statements above? The gov't has always done that! WTF does U.N. rhetoric have to do with anything? Remember a war called Korea? We even fought under the U.N. flag, and that was in the very early 1950's. I think it would be hard to argue that led to any sort of "one world gov't" conspiracy crap...

There already is a one world government. It's been there for years. It's the central banking system. In most industrialized countries the government doesn't issue the money. The central banks do. The Bank of Japan is partly owned by foreigners as is The Federal Reserve Bank. You control the world through interest rates. So this system has been in play in the US for 99 years. What's brought all the attention to it as of late was the Fed being involved in making 100 times leverage legal and then flooding the system with money so they could speculate with derivative scams. A system of make money and stick the loses to the taxpayer. If anything, it's the central banks who ruined the economy and so this is why you are hearing so much negative stuff about them.

I guess unconstitutional doesn't matter if it doesn't do too much damage but then it seems to once the damage has been done.

I think my dad was right. He always said people vote their pocketbook. To be honest, I don't think most people care if it's unconstitutional or not as long as they get their piece of the pie. If they benefit oh sure let's have more! People only stand up and get angry when they are no longer benefiting from it.

[Nitro Express]

Not in THIS part of the world. Nobody has that kind of muscle. We ALL have plenty of guns and know how to use them.

I would add to this thread but Nitro has my thoughts covered in their entirety.

Firearms are great to protect yourself if civil unrest breaks out. The Koreans didn't get killed and looted during the LA riots because they were armed to the teeth. If you live in the intermountain western US who really wears the pants is the Mormon Church. They could put a man with a rifle on every street corner real quick if they ever wanted to. They have a system and they are organized.

The thing is you aren't going to go up against the US military with that kind of weaponry. But then they would have to replace the soldiers with foreigners who could operate the equipment and fire on US citizens. Lot's of rumors about setting up free trade zones and having the Chinese military come in and all that. Lot's of paranoia.

If anything, if it got real bad it would be like the civil war. You would have the military itself split up and war with the other part just like in the civil war. I think what's going on is it's a combination of military contractors wanting more war to make more money and the corrupt politicians and bankers needing a big war as a red herring. I mean you can rip people off when they are happy but when your bubble bursts and people are angry and the economy sucks and they find out who's been ripping them off, you need a distraction. War with China and Russia due to attacking Iran and Syria is one hell of a distraction. Maybe the fucks just figure they can crawl down in a bunker and let the nukes take care of their problems which is us. If anything I think it's safe to say our corporate and political leaders have gone completely insane.

[Nickdfresh]

i would strongly support a law that broadly defined what constituted military action and required any president to get congressional authorization after a very short time period. i think i'd set it at a month. as opposed to the current near-indefinite permissible actions.

I totally agree with more stringent limitations on the Executive Branch in relation to use of force and the military. However some here may think we need a congressional declaration of war if we use Navy SEALs to rescue a hostage from Somali pirates...

[Nickdfresh]

In 1947 the National Security Act was passed and it made national security the prime focus. The US Constitution started to be ignored around 1913. The income tax and federal reserve act were unconstitutional as was the NSA Act of 1947. So they have been rolling over the Constitution for almost 100 years. The NSA Act opened us up to participating in police actions and not declared wars. It has not been a good thing. What did we ever accomplish during the Vietnam war? It got the country into debt and got a bunch of people killed. We lost the war and now you can enjoy a nice beach vacation in Vietnam and we trade with them. Honestly. I have no idea why we trade with Vietnam and China but not Cuba. It's all such a fucking joke.

The funny thing is the federal income tax only legally applies to The District of Columbia and Puerto Rico but everyone has paid over the years due to fear of a federal judge ruling against you. Then the Federal Reserve Bank charter expires next year. Will it be renewed? Does it even matter?

George Carlin was right when he said power does what power wants to do.

A lot of things have been "unconstitutional" or illegal over the years but unless you can win in court or convince enough people it's wrong or bully the government down, you have to comply or else.

A bunch of vast over-generalizations, most of which are not supported by facts. The United States was under grave threat of nuclear annihilation, infiltration by enemy intelligence, and conventional defeat but many of the more tyrannical actions during the "Red Scares" after WWI and during the 1950's were overruled via the Judicial Branch citing the U.S. Constitution...