During Obama's Second Term, Will He...

[BigBadBrian]

They're going to cave...

Obama is supposedly going to propose lowering the threshold for tax increases from $250,000 to $200,000. Let's see if he does in his speech today (1pm Eastern).

If he does, the assault on the Middle Class has begun.

And no, Republicans will not cave on raising marginal tax rates. Boehner already signaled a willingness to reduce deductions and payments in an effort to simplify the tax code. How would people feel if they couldn't deduct mortgage interest on their homes, for example? That's as much a tax raise as raising the rates.

[Nickdfresh]

Ummm Nick... we were discussing Obama's next term and current business of the nation. Can you please pay a little fucking attention..?

I'm sure you can go sell insurance on the Geico discussion board...

Sorry, I'm such a whore...


Okay, back to the thread. Speaker Boehner said the day before yesterday that it was "time to raise the bar" or something like that. I hope he meant it and isn't just talking about getting shitfaced. Both sides need to come to some agreement because someone (not the middle classes) needs to pay more tax and I think Obama's more than reasonable with the stated $250K mark. They want to raise it to $400K households, okay. But get a fucking tax deal done already. Then begin discussing the lowering of corporate tax rates from 35% to 25% WHILE CLOSING LOOPHOLES AND MAKING SURE THEY ALL PAY THE 25%!!

[So this is love]

How would people feel if they couldn't deduct mortgage interest on their homes, for example?

You would feel canadian...oh wait not quite we have a higher tax rate on income in addition to not being able to deduct mortgage interest... and I'm not even speaking of the white shit for four months

[BigBadBrian]

Okay, back to the thread. Speaker Boehner said the day before yesterday that it was "time to raise the bar" or something like that. I hope he meant it and isn't just talking about getting shitfaced. Both sides need to come to some agreement because someone (not the middle classes) needs to pay more tax and I think Obama's more than reasonable with the stated $250K mark. They want to raise it to $400K households, okay. But get a fucking tax deal done already. Then begin discussing the lowering of corporate tax rates from 35% to 25% WHILE CLOSING LOOPHOLES AND MAKING SURE THEY ALL PAY THE 25%!!

I don't see the $400,000 figure happening.

I started the "fiscal cliff" thread without realizing ZZ was discussing it here. My apologies. Nick, you can fold it into this thread if you like.

[Nickdfresh]

Obama is supposedly going to propose lowering the threshold for tax increases from $250,000 to $200,000. Let's see if he does in his speech today (1pm Eastern).

If he does, the assault on the Middle Class has begun.

If he does, it's a negotiating tactic of leverage, and we both know if anything a final deal will be a higher threshold of $250K...

And no, Republicans will not cave on raising marginal tax rates. Boehner already signaled a willingness to reduce deductions and payments in an effort to simplify the tax code. How would people feel if they couldn't deduct mortgage interest on their homes, for example? That's as much a tax raise as raising the rates.

Leveraging. The Bush era tax cuts have been by and large a disaster and failed to avert the worst recession we've ever had, actually probably a minor depression. Do you think the GOP is going to look good essentially "holding the middle class hostage" and refusing to bargain? It would be another cynical, desperate act further relegating the GOP to the minority party of white males and underscored by rich donors...

[Nickdfresh]

I took out the thread-jacking flamewar between baru and I as well as the unrelated WMD stuff and retitled and merged this thread with Brian's Fiscal Cliff one. Brian, let me know if you have any objections regarding the title...

[Satan]

Fiscal cliff, my pointy tailed ass.....

1) Close the tax loopholes
2) End the Chimp tax "cuts" for rich tax dodgers.
3) End the Reagan tax "cuts" for rich tax dodgers.
4) End the imperialistic PNAC wars, and never start another one.
5) Raise the cap on Social Security.
6) End Obamacare. Replace it with Medicare for all.

Problem solved, you're welcome, and I won't even ask for your souls (this time)

[Satan]

Obama's going to assert himself more this term, and nobody is going to like it...

If he asserts himself like a Demoncratic President should, MOST people would like it.

Right now he's asserting that tax "cuts" for the rich have got to go......

[kwame k]

Exactly KK... The election got a lot of people thinking and talking. But I really want to encourage folks not to stop... don't do a touch down dance for Obama winning nor throw your arms and check out due to Romney losing.

There's serious stuff on the table right now. All the dialog needs to continue at it's present level. I think that could be a key... not only from President Obama but also both sides of the aisle in congress. I believe that if the US public stayed engaged and talking about issues and solutions... it might encourage Washington to not just slip back into business as usual. Washington was listening through all this election hoopla... we need to ensure the public's message and mandate stays in their faces and ears!!

I agree 100%..........the thing that scares me is that now that we're 2 years away from a mid-term it's back to business as usual in DC. Meaning, Demos will whine about the big meanie Rupukes while the Repukes will throw out every word that ends in 'ism or 'ist for everything the Demos or the Presidents tries to put forth!

[ZahZoo]

How would people feel if they couldn't deduct mortgage interest on their homes, for example? That's as much a tax raise as raising the rates.

I could stomach the removal of the mortgage interest deduction... but only on one condition... The Alternative Minimum Tax gets adjusted fully up to 2012 inflation rates. Without that change it would kill us financially by adding about $10k in additional federal taxes already paid.

Not sure if most are aware... but tied to the Bush tax cuts that Democrats and other want to do away with is the rates for the Alternative Minimum Tax (AMT). Congress failed to pass an inflation "patch" this year. The current one expired last December. If they don't enact this... 31 million new tax payers will be hit with the AMT and it will run deep into the middle class. The Democrats are aware of this and we may see some concessions from their end because those tax hits will be deeply felt in many of the higher cost of living areas in the North east and West coast... which just elected or reelected sitting Democrats.

My personal opinion... a simple first step in simplifying the tax code is eliminate the differences between earned income and capital gains. Make income... income. Period. No matter how it's earned. Keep the same brackets as we have today. Adjust the AMT for real 2012 inflation levels. This way the 1 percenters pay the same rates as we do... rich inventors pay more of their fair share and no actual tax rates go up. More revenue... more equality.

Now the tough thing that must follow... spending cuts. There's billions in low hanging fruit at the federal level. Maybe that needs it's own thread.

[kwame k]

Military spending has got to be cut......it's insane and unnecessary!

If you cut 50% you'd still have enough money to keep us safe!

[DLR Bridge]

Military spending has got to be cut......it's insane and unnecessary!

If you cut 50% you'd still have enough money to keep us safe!

C'mon man. We need more battleships an you know it. I keed!

[kwame k]

Ha! And all those military base in nowherefuckingstan need to be closed, too!

Although, some of those new battleships renderings/prototypes are pretty fucking cool.......we need to spend money on R&D because what the military comes up with has benefited all of us, as far as technology goes.

[ZahZoo]

Military spending has got to be cut......it's insane and unnecessary!

If you cut 50% you'd still have enough money to keep us safe!

Agreed reduce in alignment of protection not global police force...

Some other worthy candidates for spending reductions:



Every year, Senator Coburn releases his Wastebook, his list of some of the most wasteful spending items in government. The total waste listed in the 2012 report is $18 billion. Here is a sample:

Tax loopholes for the National Football League (NFL), National Hockey League (NHL) and Professional Golfers’ Association (PGA) — professional sports leagues that generate billions of dollars in annual profits ($91 million in taxes forgone)
Moroccan pottery classes (part of a $27 million grant from U.S. Agency for International Development)
Efforts to promote caviar consumption and production ($300,000)
Robotic squirrel named “RoboSquirrel” (part of a $325,000 grant from the National Science Foundation)
Promotion of specialty shampoo and other beauty products for cats and dogs ($505,000)
Corporate welfare for the world’s largest snack-food producer, PepsiCo ($1.3 million)
Government-funded study on how golfers might benefit from using their imagination to envision the hole as bigger than it actually is ($350,000)
“Prom Week,” a video game that allows taxpayers to relive prom night ($516,000)
Oklahoma’s layover boondoggle: a scarcely used airport in Oklahoma receiving nearly half-a-million in taxpayer dollars only to transfer funds elsewhere in the state ($450,000)
The 2012 Alabama Watermelon Queen tour, paid for in part by the USDA “to promote the consumption of Alabama’s watermelon through appearances of the Alabama Watermelon Queen at various events and locations” ($25,000)

I know that cutting waste alone won’t get us very far in our efforts to cut the deficit, but getting rid of these absurdities is the least Congress could do this year.

Read the whole report here (with illustrations). It will likely make you laugh and cry at the same time.

http://www.nationalreview.com/corner/330541/taxpayer-dollars-work-wastebook-2012-veronique-de-rugy#

http://www.coburn.senate.gov/public//index.cfm?a=Files.Serve&File_id=b7b23f66-2d60-4d5a-8bc5-8522c7e1a40e

[ZahZoo]