The Gun Control Thread

[78/84 guy]

Yeah, I know. But how many people bother reading the instructions for their new blue ray player, much less the operating manual for an AR?

And if that's true. Do us all a favor and don't buy a gun !

[DONNIEP]

And if that's true. Do us all a favor and don't buy a gun !

That's what I'm getting at. My neighbor - perfect example. Last year he bought a decent AR, dropped about a grand on it. Basic model. He was all excited to show it to me so I says "how's it shoot?" To this day he's never shot it and I guarantee you he doesn't know the first thing about it. I'd be surprised if he could actually charge the weapon. And at the very least that's an accidental discharge waiting to happen.

[78/84 guy]

It is a big part of the problem. Fucking people that think they know better. Like this dumb bitch teaching her sick kid how to use a gun. It is beyond belief for me ! I just don't get it.

[Satan]

How ALEC Thwarts Honest Debate About Gun Violence

Published on Sunday, December 16, 2012 by The Nation
by John Nichols

The first response of any country to violence of the sort seen in Connecticut must be one of horror.

And sorrow.

President Obama showed that sorrow when he wiped his tears, like those so many Americans shed Friday.

But there is nothing more absurd than the suggestion that it is wrong to raise political concerns at a moment such as this.

It is in a moment such as this that responsible nations examine themselves, their cultures, their laws.

Ohio Congressman Dennis Kucinich is right when he says, “There is an undercurrent of violence in our society that is becoming more powerful.” He is right, as well, when he says, “We must reject violence and take an organized approach to averting violence.”

This is about more than guns. It is about healthcare, particularly mental health care. It is about media.

And it is about the quality of our discourse—what we allow ourselves to discuss, and how we discuss it.

California Congressman George Miller says: “We must come together as a nation to honestly discuss how to prevent people intent on carrying out these savage attacks from so easily obtaining guns and ammunition. The nation is ready for this conversation. More importantly, though, the safety of children and all Americans demands we have it.”

So why don’t we have that discussion?

It is easy to blame the National Rifle Association.

But it’s important to go beyond “easy” and understand that the NRA never walks alone. Reasonable people may have reasonable differences about how, when, where and whether to address the concerns Miller raises with regard to sales of assault weapons and ammunition. But no one should be comfortable with those who seek to silence the discourse and control against public responses to violence.

In this regard, the NRA has a powerful ally at the level of government, where the most meaningful interventions against violence can and frequently must be made.

The American Legislative Exchange Council, the Koch Brothers–guided group that aligns corporations with conservative legislators who will introduce the “model legislation” crafted by those corporations, has been in the forefront not just of averting sensible gun control but of trying to shut down public debate about gun control.

ALEC is known, of course, for its advocacy on behalf of the so-called “stand your ground,” or “shoot first,” or “kill at will” laws that became so much of an issue in the aftermath of the Trayvon Martin slaying in Florida.

But, as the Center for Media and Democracy’s “ALEC Exposed” project has revealed, the group has a long history of seeking to undermine meaningful public discourse with regard to violence. ALEC does not merely oppose gun control, it seeks to prevent communities, states and the nation from even discussing gun control.

The group has, for instance, promoted:

A “Resolution on Semi-Automatic Firearms” that expresses opposition to proposals by local, state and federal governments to restrict the sale of semi-automatic weapons, known as assault weapons.

A “Defense of Free Market and Public Safety Resolution” that discourages efforts by law enforcement agencies to use their purchasing power to buy police and policing weapons only from gun manufacturers that improve gun safety to protect children. The same resolution discourages efforts to identify and limit public contracting with gun dealers that are not notorious for selling weapons used in crimes.

A unanimous 2011 endorsement by ALEC’s “Public Safety and Elections Task Force” of a proposal to expressly bar cities from banning machine guns.

Again and again in recent years, ALEC has worked not just to promote the economic agenda of weapons manufacturers and weapons dealers—including major retailers that sell guns and ammunition—but to undermine political debates about that agenda.

Many corporations exited ALEC as the role of the group in promoting “stand your ground” laws was exposed after the Trayvon Martin shooting. But many more, including ExxonMobil Corporation, GlaxoSmithKline, Koch Industries Inc., Pfizer Inc., PhRMA, Reynolds American Inc., United Parcel Service, AT&T and State Farm Insurance Companies—among others—remain ALEC members and sponsors.

These corporations may want to separate themselves from the crudest of ALEC’s anti-democratic initiatives. But they make ALEC possible, and strong, as do the better part of 2,000 legislators who remain aligned with the group.

When we seek to understand why we don’t have the discussion—and the action—that we should about violence, the place to begin is with those who seek to preempt debates and to limit the ability of communities, states and the federal government to respond to the cries of horrified and sorrowful Americans for a real response to individual incidents and patterns of violence that break our hearts.

© 2012 The Nation

John Nichols

John Nichols is Washington correspondent for The Nation and associate editor of The Capital Times in Madison, Wisconsin. His most recent book is The “S” Word: A Short History of an American Tradition. A co-founder of the media reform organization Free Press, Nichols is co-author with Robert W. McChesney of The Death and Life of American Journalism: The Media Revolution that Will Begin the World Again and Tragedy & Farce: How the American Media Sell Wars, Spin Elections, and Destroy Democracy. Nichols' other books include: Dick: The Man Who is President and The Genius of Impeachment: The Founders' Cure for Royalism.

[Hardrock69]

Why is it the motherfucking media makes it a point to go overboard when people are victims of gun violence, but when someone with a gun PREVENTS mass shootings, they hardly report on it?

http://www.breitbart.com/Breitbart-TV/2012/12/17/Armed-Off-duty-cop-prevents-mass-shooting-in-San-Antonio

WOAI: SAN ANTONIO - Gunfire erupted at the Mayan Palace Theatre on Southwest Military Sunday night just before 9:30 pm. This shooting comes just days after a deadly rampage at a school in Connecticut and sparks memories of the the mass slaying at a movie theater in Aurora, Colo.

An armed off-duty deputy working security was able to take down the shooter before he could kill anyone.

Investigators tell News 4 WOAI the gunman is 19-year-old Jesus Manuel Garcia. They say he worked at the China Garden restaurant right next to the Mayan Palace Theater. Police say Garcia opened fire at China Garden because of relationship problems with his girlfriend who also worked at the restaurant, although she was not present at the time. Officers explain that Garcia then continued to fire his weapon across the parking lot and into the theater. Garcia even opened fire on a San Antonio Police Department patrol car explained Detective Lou Antu, spokesman for the Bexar County Sherriff's Office.

“Everybody was just coming out of the side of the theater, running out the emergency exits. And everyone was screaming and running,” explained a moviegoer named Megan.

Garcia was finally stopped by a deputy who was working an off-duty job at the theater. The deputy shot Garcia four times. "The officer involved, she took the appropriate action to try to keep everyone safe in the movie theater," Antu said. Antu says the gunman never made it into the theater itself, thanks largely to the heroic work of the off duty deputy. "She did what she felt she had to do," Antu said. "I feel that she saved a lot of lives by taking the action she had to take." Garcia has since undergone surgery and is in stable condition at San Antonio Military Medical Center (SAMMC). He's being charged with aggravated assault for shooting at an officer and shooting a bystander. That bystander is listed in stable condition.

[DONNIEP]

I would feel much better if the off duty chick had been unarmed.

[LoungeMachine]

I was held up at gunpoint when I was 19. He got flustered when I couldn't open the safe and just had me fill his bag with the money from the till. Nobody got hurt....except for the PTSD I had to deal with. When it comes to robberies, just give them the fucking money. The business is insured.

I was 21, and working at a deli.

7am and the guy stuck a .44 Magnum against my neck. Gave him the lousy $200 bucks from the till.

Then for some unknown reason I chased after him....that is until he turned and pointed fucking gun at me. That was the moment I realized it wasn't my money, and I didn't give a shit.

Spent 2 hours with the cops going over mug shots, and then my asshole boss made me stay for my whole shift.



I can still feel the cold metal.

[jhale667]

Soledad pwns professional gun nut

[twonabomber]

Local gun shop owner posted this on his blog today. He always refers to the president as "Obuma." I will also leave the typos in, this guy used to be a teacher.

While I was "gone away" in the hospital, I followed some of the recent school murders. I see the Obuma character sorta-kinda making the suggestion that he is going to use his "office" to make sure these murders of our school children does not happen again. He should leave guns alone and concentrate on WHY mentally ill people are out on our streets to do whatever they please.

Here are my solutions to the school murders. These are all solutions I have talked about on this blog for YEARS. The predictions I have given have all come home to roost. Of course. Liberalism must be scrubbed from the "protection" of our school children and good logical thought applied.


1. If a school where your children are educated has a "No Gun Zone", you must IMMEDIATELY pull your child until the next school board meeting and then stand up -with other parents - and DEMAND that this sign be removed and be replaced with the following: "Armed Guard On Duty and SWAT Team On Ready. Intruders will be met with harshly." Of course. As we have said before, these "No Gun Zones" of schools are an INVITATION to a mentally ill person to take a gun and kill your children WITHOUT INTERRUPTION. Period. I have in the past engaged in hundreds of discussions on this matter. I am 100% correct. Where have all of the shootings occurred? Answer: Schools and malls that are posted as HAVING NO RESISTENCE WHATSOEVER.


2. While in the school board meeting, DEMAND that an armed, sworn law enforcement officer be hired every one of the 180 days that your children are school. Likewise, a hard-wired instant response to a SWAT team must be present. The SWAT team needs to PRACTICE in YOUR kids' school(s). Notice that Chardon High School was a practice school for the local SWAT team. It did little good in actuality.


3. All first responders MUST swear they will enter any school building in their precinct and engage the shooter IMMEDIATELY. Think of the lessons of Columbine where supposed sworn law enforcement armed officials cowered behind armored vehicles while kids fell out of windows dead from gunshot wounds. Those days BETTER be over... If law enforcement is not going to go in and engage a shooter IMMEDIATELY, they need to be removed from the force immediately. This is a new day. Think of it if your kid was in there...


4. We must return to the days of locked-down institutions where mentally ill people are isolated from society. Sad, but WHY are mentally ill people - many stone-dead VIOLENT - allowed to remain in homes where they surely will - and have - automatic weapons and turned them on the innocent? Why is this allowed to happen? It is a gross irresponsibility.


5. If you have firearms and a mentally ill person, you MUST keep the firearms in a safe. This is basic responsibility.

These are the only solutions. Think about it: The murderers broke about 20 gun/ammunition laws when killing the children. More laws mean nothing. They are as useless as a sign that says: "Do not bring your gun into the gun-free zone." Likewise, there are 440 million guns in this country and NO ONE is giving any up. Second Amendment - believe it.

I think the only part of that I agree with is #5, and that more laws mean nothing.

[Angel]

I was 21, and working at a deli.

7am and the guy stuck a .44 Magnum against my neck. Gave him the lousy $200 bucks from the till.

Then for some unknown reason I chased after him....that is until he turned and pointed fucking gun at me. That was the moment I realized it wasn't my money, and I didn't give a shit.

Spent 2 hours with the cops going over mug shots, and then my asshole boss made me stay for my whole shift.



I can still feel the cold metal.

Mine was a sawed off double barrel shotgun at a 24 hour restaurant. It was obviously an "inside" job. The owner had a car wash across the street, and we held their float. He knew about that float and where it was kept. Problem was, he was covered head to foot. The only identifying thing I could see was his red curly pony tail as he left. I was interrogated for about 4 hours. My employer gave me shit for not taking the elastic band off the marked bills in the till.

My PTSD was pretty bad. I was scared to leave the house for about two weeks, and work was terrifying after that.

[Nitro Express]

I was 21, and working at a deli.

7am and the guy stuck a .44 Magnum against my neck. Gave him the lousy $200 bucks from the till.

Then for some unknown reason I chased after him....that is until he turned and pointed fucking gun at me. That was the moment I realized it wasn't my money, and I didn't give a shit.

Spent 2 hours with the cops going over mug shots, and then my asshole boss made me stay for my whole shift.



I can still feel the cold metal.

I think you were pissed about what he did to you and you just had the natural reaction to go after him. Like I said you don't know if he's going to pull that trigger or not and just being put through that trauma is is going to piss you off.

[Nitro Express]

Why is it the motherfucking media makes it a point to go overboard when people are victims of gun violence, but when someone with a gun PREVENTS mass shootings, they hardly report on it?


http://www.breitbart.com/Breitbart-T...in-San-Antonio

I was amazed at the lack of fact checking by the media on the Colorado shooting and this one is just as bad or worse. Not only is the media biased it's sloppy. They are just a bunch of unprofessional vultures that have done a lot of damage to this country because people sadly believe the poor reporting, the lies, and the biased bullshit.

[Satan]

Thom Hartmann talks with Janet Rosenbaum, Ph.D., Assistant Professor of Epidemiology-School of Public Health, State University of New York Downstate Medical Center, Brooklyn, NY.
Website: www.downstate.edu who debunks the myth that Israel and Switzerland are gun-toting utopias.....

[Nitro Express]

Yeah, I know. But how many people bother reading the instructions for their new blue ray player, much less the operating manual for an AR?

Have a two week waiting period and in those fourteen days you take a class on gun safety and how to properly use the thing. Failure to complete the class means you don't get your gun. Anyone that needs a gun in a hurry needs it for a bad reason. There is no reason a person can't wait two weeks and that a perfect time to take a training course. They could give you card or put it in you FBI background file that you have have firearms training. This way if you purchase another gun in the future you don't have to repeat the course.

[DONNIEP]

Only the police and the military should have guns. Period, end of story. And then see what happens.