"As a Democrat, I am disgusted with President Obama"

[Nickdfresh]

[Dr. Love]

It also tends to reduce their incentive to give a flying fuck about things like, say, dumping toxic waste in neighborhood playgrounds...

That's not what I was referring to - and hence why I said regulations are necessary.

[Dr. Love]

I've heard other so-called "libertarians" say that we should leave it to the courts. Of course many of those same so-called "libertarians" are also screaming for so-called "tort reform", which would make it impossible to do so. The infamous McDonalds "hot coffee" case is usually cited as an example of "lawsuits gone wild", yet the reality is that very few people are actually aware of the true facts of that case. It goes way beyond a simple case of one lady spilling a cup of coffee.

Even presuming the KKKoch types don't destroy the ability to sue them, we're still left with the reality that the courts themselves are packed with right-wing, pro-corporate judges. Many Republicans were shocked when Opie Roberts joined with the alleged "librul" wing of the Supreme Court to preserve the Obamacare mandate. I was not. Because it was consistent with all of Opie's other rulings. He's taken the pro-corporate stance on every case he's ruled on, and in that case, it was pro-insurance corporations.

I don't really believe the Koch brothers are libertarians... they are corporatists trying to further enrich themselves, buying politicians that help them further their own agenda. There's a pretty clear separation between libertarians and republicans (republicans don't want us in their party)

Can't argue with that. Loopholes need to be gone. In regulation, taxes, etc.



It would be easier for them to win if it were possible to compete. But what small business can compete against globalist corporations. (i.e. the hometown grocery store vs WalMart) The deregulation of the last 32 years is what made this possible. The Libertarians (at least the Rand/KKKoch version) would cut the brake lines entirely. And sticking with that metaphor, the worst possible time to lose your brakes is when you're already going too fast downhill.

I dunno what its like in your area, but in Texas there's a pretty proud tradition of supporting local business. We have some grocery stores that are beating out the local area walmarts (just as an example). Up to your community how you want to handle it -- not much different than now really. I live in a city that wouldn't let walmart move in, and supports those local businesses.

No, but the Libertarians love the collapse of regulations which made that situation possible. Under Glass-Steagal, it could not have happened.

I don't know about that ... libertarians generally call for the prosecution of the people that torpedoed the economy in 2008. There's certainly the more ideologically hard-line people that think all regulation should go, but there are extremists/moderates in the libertarian party just like any other party. At least among the ones I've interacted with, they are pretty reasonable in that regulation is necessary, but that regulation doesn't prevent corruption when the regulators are so easily corrupted.

No argument there either.



Well, the so-called Libertarians, specifically the teabag wing of the Republican party are very much enablers of the economic destruction of this country. Does Phil Gramm call himself a "libertarian"? I honestly can't remember, but as Ron Paul knows, they do often run as "Republicans" in Texas.

You don't really win in Texas if you aren't republican. That's changing, though.

[Kristy]

What!? Did Nick find no Wiki reference, citation or article!?

[Kristy]

I don't really believe the Koch brothers are libertarians... they are corporatists trying to further enrich themselves....

The very definition of a Libertardian.

[Dr. Love]

Huh? "[it's] Scope of authority"? What the fuck is that. Libertardian speak for "government intrusion" ??? The rest reads like Libertardian speak for "yeah, we want a slice of that pie of corporate greed and fuck government but...we want to e courts to protect our F A T greedy asses just in case we fail, get sued or face severe jail time for deregulating everything and fucking up the system much worse than it is now. Sounds like untethered Republican nonsense. So fuck that argument.

I'll rephrase it so maybe you can understand.

If the government has the ability to control, for example, health care, or education, or the finance, then the industries that are regulated by the government have more incentive to lobby the government to get favorable legislation passed. The rest of it means this: If a company causes harm to you or your property, you can take them to court and win a judgement against them.

I mean, it's not like we've seen corruption of regulators before, right? http://www.nytimes.com/2008/09/11/wa...anted=all&_r=0

Bull fucking shit on a Christ sandwich it's not about greed with Libertardians!!! You whole fucking "party" is founded on greed but you wrap it all up in this fucked up flag-waving patriotism horseshit. Like I said about you 'tardians you're disenfranchised and want your slice and fuck those who get hurt, left out or lost. You're nothing more than the spoiled retarded kid always drooling on himself who lives down the block who cries foul and take his ball away from others and goes home and cries to his mother. For if that kid had to share his shitty toy why that would considered "socialism" to you 'tardians. Oh no! Can't have that! The rest of your 'tardian argument reads like a forgotten script page from a lame and forgotten Star Wars prequel script. Change!? My scrawny ass. The only change you want is complete control for yourselves. You want to dig your $350 Sting ticket purchasing paws into Wall Street and fuck it up further for yourselves.

Looks like you're barely raising the argument to the level of name-calling. That wasn't an argument on your part, it was a diatribe.

Oh blow me you fucking sexist/misogynist meister. Libertardians have no "ideology" which is exactly why your party of idicoy fights among itself more than any other. And please stop with your faux-philosophy Dr. Phil 12-step speak. Gawd damn, is your party ever paranoid and disillusioned, distrusting of those not like you - like the poor and weak, the uneducated and disabled. You're nothing more than ravenous Rethuglicans wrapped up cozy in the American flag of self-made bullshit. Fuck off.

You're a very angry person ... over such a random and strange thing. The Libertarian party has never won anything on a national level. No house seats, no senate seats... nada. But you are literally frothing-at-the-mouth angry at them. You seem unable to stand the idea that someone thinks something that you don't want them to think, unable to respond reasonably and completely driven by your base emotions.

It must be why you are so easily manipulated into being such a good enabler.

[Kristy]

The Libertarian party has never won anything on a national level. No house seats, no senate seats... nada. But you are literally frothing-at-the-mouth angry at them. You seem unable to stand the idea that someone thinks something that you don't want them to think, unable to respond reasonably and completely driven by your base emotions.

It must be why you are so easily manipulated into being such a good enabler.

And they never will. It's a party of fools. Again, you subscribe to a bullshit pseudo-political self-imposed ideology that can't agree on anything among themselves. So you invent more and more ridiculous crap. A "private account" pay for health care? Suuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuure. Between mortgage foreclosures, industry going overseas and unpayable student loans yeah, I'll save that 30 cents to pay for a $28,000 gallbladder surgery if I happen to need it. No problem. Another Libertardian method of shitting on the poor. Oh, while we're at it why not deregulate the medical industry and give doctors who have been deemed to be incompetent their licenses back? After all, incompetent doctors (and other health professionals) are just another product of that nasty government intrusion. And why stop there? The Libertardans believe that all those dangerous medicines pulled by by the FDA is nothing more than a government conspiracy to keep us all sick. So let's put them back on the shelves!


Than again, I'm just "enabling," right? I swear, you talk like a fucking cultist asshole who uses buzz phrases to expunge your shit. No wonder you support a party of losers brought on futher by mentally ill asshole like Jone$ and his blowjob queen buddy Ron Paul. You remember him, don't you?


You're just a failure supporting a fad. The Libertardian trademark

[Dr. Love]

And they never will. It's a party of fools. Again, you subscribe to a bullshit pseudo-political self-imposed ideology that can't agree on anything among themselves. So you invent more and more ridiculous crap. A "private account" pay for health care? Suuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuure. Between mortgage foreclosures, industry going overseas and unpayable student loans yeah, I'll save that 30 cents to pay for a $28,000 gallbladder surgery if I happen to need it. No problem. Another Libertardian method of shitting on the poor. Oh, while we're at it why not deregulate the medical industry and give doctors who have been deemed to be incompetent their licenses back? After all, incompetent doctors (and other health professionals) are just another product of that nasty government intrusion. And why stop there? The Libertardans believe that all those dangerous medicines pulled by by the FDA is nothing more than a government conspiracy to keep us all sick. So let's put them back on the shelves!


Than again, I'm just "enabling," right? I swear, you talk like a fucking cultist asshole who uses buzz phrases to expunge your shit. No wonder you support a party of losers brought on futher by mentally ill asshole like Jone$ and his blowjob queen buddy Ron Paul. You remember him, don't you?


You're just a failure supporting a fad. The Libertardian trademark

I presume you're referring to the health care bill that was largely crafted by the health care industry lobbyists, and famously not read by the legislators, that helps the insurance industry more than it helps the insured. Which, as I recall, was passed and signed by a "democratic" congress and administration. The same "democratic" congress and administration that has done more to help the banks than the homeowners in the foreclosure crisis. And (so far as I know, and correct me if I'm wrong), has done little to help deal with rising student debt levels.

You're attacking a straw man. One that evokes such an intense emotional response from you, but not one that I ascribe to. I think some regulation is necessary. I would personally be happy to spend more money on domestic programs and pay for them by reducing military budget. There's a lot of libertarians like me. Just as there is in any party, there are pragmatists.

You are upset at ideologically pure libertarianism, and view them through the same myopic point of view that conservatives use to see all liberals as baby-killing socialists. You live in a black and white world, where someone is either a friend or foe, and those that disagree with you are to be attacked. It's a point of view that works well for the simple-minded, but it makes you much more like those you profess to hate than you seem to be aware of. Angry that someone else thinks a different way than they do, but unwilling or unable to do anything to change the problems they profess to be so upset by.

[TwoFoolsAMinute]

It seems that it's always one way or the other: Libertarians are either mistaken for conservatives or anarchists when they are neither. That being said, I have never seen a more misguided characterization of libertarians as I have in this thread.

[FORD]

[Nickdfresh]

What!? Did Nick find no Wiki reference, citation or article!?

I found one for you.

[Nickdfresh]

I agree with that, but I still think he would have been more or less status-quo. Which is the point of my generalization.

The problem is that (rightest) Libertarians tend to want a decentralized, weakened gov't. So that's a bit of a contradiction with calling for tighter regulations...

[Nickdfresh]

I can't speak for all libertarians, but I believe in privatization because by reducing its scope of authority it reduces the incentive by corporations to buy the government to seize control of that authority. ...

You mean they'd just own everything without any sort of annoying bulwark of a gov't hindering them...

[Kristy]

You're attacking a straw man. One that evokes such an intense emotional response from you, but not one that I ascribe to.

No I'm not. I'm "attacking" what has been stated in your Libertardian charter.

http://www.lp.org/issues/healthcare

Have you read it? It's unfuckingrealistic for one. There is no emotional response other than the ridiculousness of it.

And here is your strawmen:

http://gedde.newsvine.com/_news/2012/07/01/12508206-libertarians-far-right-republican-wolves-in-pseudo-intellectual-sheeps-clothing

"Libertarians are poseurs!!! They hide behind pseudo-intellectual arguments that suggest the possibility of a utopian existence, free of Government which amounts to little more than anarchy. Anarchy in which you protect your own rights, free from oversight and regulation, usually by implied force. You see? Republicans on steroids (which, of course, would also be legal in Libertarian America). As I understand it, at its core, Libertarianism is the notion that everybody can be free to do whatever they like, as long as it doesn't impinge on the ability of anybody else to do whatever they like, or in the trite Libertarian mantra "Your right to swing your fist ends where my nose begins".

Libertardianism IS far right wing pseudo-intellectualism spawn by disillusioned Rethuglicans. Although I don't agree with the author's statement that Libertardianism is anarchy it's social-political control that borders on insanity. And again with your creepy psychosocial posturing. I don't live in a black and white world when it comes to Libertardianism nor do I have a myopic view. I'm far from angry that one sees shit in this world different from moi (unless you are a KISS/metal fan and perpetually stuck in 1985) but have some decency for your fellow man in the process. Because the Libertardians sure don't; you want to fuck up government even more as you see it being good only for yourselves. You do shit on the poor and the sick. You claim to hate health care but love it only when it woudl be available to those who can afford it.

"We should eliminate the entire social welfare system. This includes eliminating food stamps, subsidized housing, and all the rest. Individuals who are unable to fully support themselves and their families through the job market must, once again, learn to rely on supportive family, church, community, or private charity to bridge the gap."

Welfare is out of control but that is not a Libertardian concept - not in the least. Okay, eliminate food stamps and watch people starve, become homeless and see if that solves the poverty problem. You fucking idiots. Oh and by individuals who can't support themselves (i.e., the mentally ill) should just join a church, right? It's their problem now. For social issues do not exist in the Libertardian party. None at all. You did away with them by ignoring them. So simple. So non-black and white!


Read you own fucking charter sometime. You love the Second Amendment but use this bullshit paranoid conspiracy of "prohibition" claiming when guns become illegal it will not stop ownership. Sounds like a fear-based tactic to me. Much like a modern day cult would use to keep their followers stupid. Oh, and I fucking love how you Libertardians feel gun ownership is "personal responsibility" and nothing more. No mention of public safety? Which means another Columbine, Aurora or Sandy Hook can happen but it's cool as long as the gun owner was "responsible." Gawd, you party is warped.

[Kristy]

I found one for you.

Golly! How original

You're losing your touch, asshole.