Sounds like Kerry is a Van Hagar fan

[Big Train]

Posted by od...

Uh, no. I need to worry about Bush since he instituted a ban on it so that research was stopped.

No you don't need to worry about him. You need to nut up son, and get the masses on your side, if you care enough about it. Even people agree with him right to make the ban stand. Prove him wrong if you believe in it that bad.

[Ally_Kat]

Originally posted by ODShowtime
Uh, no. I need to worry about Bush since he instituted a ban on it so that research was stopped.

Creating embryos specifically to rip them apart and test on them has been banned and the amount of money given to the area has a certain limit. Research is still going on seeing how they are allowed to use "left-over" embryos from in-vitro clinics.

[Big Train]

[QUOTE]Originally posted by FORD

Originally posted by Big Train


BCE Angling Crap....

Meaning you don't have a defense for their actions. That's okay. They don't either.

Does ANYONE have a defense to your crackpot theories?

He is still creating jobs in an envoirnment that is an uphill battle. How many have you created? How many do you think are going to be created with Kerry's plan? None. He is going to stall the economy by dicking with the tax breaks, which mean rich people are going to reinvest in other areas and keep their money out of the markets. Pure genius.

Tax breaks for the rich don't fix the economy, because the rich already have money. They don't put it back into the economy by spending, because they already have money to spend in the first place. And if they were supposed to create jobs with all this money, again I ask WHERE THE HELL ARE ALL THESE JOBS THAT JUNIOR CLAIMS "HE" CREATED??

Your ignorant of economics. Money from the rich in the forms of loans, grants, investments, stocks, are the engines of growth that provide jobs. We are in a service economy now, NOBODY can change that or will that differently. MAKING a company put in high paid, outdated positions in is retarded economic policy (one I'm sure you endorse). We all need to find new ways to compete and new industries. During this transistion, it is gonna be hard. But to use feel good policies like that is just prolonging the inevitable and suffering. Put simplify it baby, blame it all on Dubya. Feels so GOOD doesn't it?

How DO YOU prove either way? I can't and you can't, so that is a moot point.

Not neccessarily. In Afghanistan, there's only two conclusions you can believe.


One is that Osama was never there in the first place. The other is that the BCE allowed him to escape. Either conclusion makes Junior a liar. And the second makes the military appear incompetent, which doesn't at all agree with the speed with which the Taliban was defeated. So I'm going to give the troops in Afghanistan the benefit of the doubt and say that Osama was never there. As I said, either way, the BCE lied about it.

Or a third, most likely conclusion, that he and his muslim supporters aided him and provided him safe harbor. Just simplify, wrap it up in the cardboard of conspriacy theories, the BCE. How that makes the military "incomptent" that they couldn't roll a country over and find a single man in less than two months, is beyond me. Work your magic ford, show me the convenient theory which says that the BCE (fuckin name them, I'm getting sick of asking). Tell me, exactly and specifically, who helped him and where to get him out of the country. Then tell me where he is now , so I can help the "Incompenent" military and elmiminate him.


Thats not a lie, that a difference of opinion. Because your liberal, you reason with emotion not fact. The fact is that is economic recovery. Who it directly benefits right this second is another story.

If only billionaires benefit, while millions struggle to pay their bills, and millions more can't find a fucking job, then how is that a recovery? That's not emotion, that's brutal facts. We've been waiting for trickle down economics since jelly bean head was in the White House, and it hasn't trickled down yet. It's working class people who are the life blood of this country. Not pieces of shit like Bush who inherit fortunes and never work a day in their lives.

It's a recovery because there is more money available in the system. The rich makes their money first in a recovery and lose it first in a recession. The availibility of this money is what supplys jobs. It is emotion, as you plead with me. The base facts are the economy, the GDP, are recovering, not chuck from the hardware store. That will take more time.


The economy is changing, this isn't the Industrial age anymore. A lot of factory work just won't be there anymore, it's a fact. We need to invent new industries and create jobs in them. Like I said, this is an uphill challenge. To oversimplify, as you do, is to ignore the real issues.

The real issues are that jobs created in fucking India and China are NOT going to help Americans. And it's not just manufacturing. Even high tech jobs are being outsourced. Some of these old school factory workers probably went to school to be retrained in IT fields, only to be FUCKED by outsourcing again. Where are all these people supposed to go? Should they move to New Dehli and get their own job back?

The way of the world nowadays Ford. They say the average american in our lifetime will have an average of 5 careers. The information age will require constant learning and retraining as things are moving faster. Your entirely welcome to move to Mayberry if you want a different lifestyle. It's the way it is and that isn't gonna change no matter who is in office.

[ODShowtime]

Originally posted by Ally_Kat
Creating embryos specifically to rip them apart and test on them has been banned and the amount of money given to the area has a certain limit. Research is still going on seeing how they are allowed to use "left-over" embryos from in-vitro clinics.

I figured I was being a little broad when I said research has stopped. Stifled is a much better word.

[Ally_Kat]

How is it stifled? It still gets a significant amount of money and do you know how many "left-over" eggs invitro leaves? They just aren't allowed to run away with it and rack up huge bills

[wraytw]

Originally posted by ODShowtime
[B]What you said tells me that you actually agree with fucking with OUR Constitution for two purposes:

1. to alienate and restrain a huge group of people from receiving a god-given right to receive special benefits and recognition of a longterm domestic union (fags are gross, but none live with me, so why do I give a fuck about them?)

No. I'm all for civil unions, just not gay marriage

I don't know how long you've lived in our counry or how much of our history you are aware of, but NOBODY has EVER won a fight to take away our citizens' rights. Citizen's rights has always won, every time.

That's all nice and dandy, but marriage isn't an absolute right, it's a privilege. Feel free to show me where our right to marriage is protected.

Gay Marriage isn't a civil rights issue. Even Jesse Jackson acknowledges that.

His immigration policy shows a complete lack of respect for illegal aliens, something I find quite good, actually. He proposed that if illegal aliens register, they can receive gov't benefits. But actually, having them register will just make the easier to round up later. Gotta give it Bush on that one. Making ignorant people think they are getting a benefit when they are really getting one up the ass is classic Bush!!!

Illegal immigration is a major contributing factor in unemployment. Want unemployment to go down? Cut down illegal immigration.

[ODShowtime]

Originally posted by wraytw
No. I'm all for civil unions, just not gay marriage



That's all nice and dandy, but marriage isn't an absolute right, it's a privilege. Feel free to show me where our right to marriage is protected.

Gay Marriage isn't a civil rights issue. Even Jesse Jackson acknowledges that.



Illegal immigration is a major contributing factor in unemployment. Want unemployment to go down? Cut down illegal immigration.

I agree with your stated view about illegal immigration. We are totally fucking up with that and we are paying for it.

First of all, marriage is defined by some as a sacred union under God. Would a just and loving God restrict that? Sure, people who re-wrote the bible in the last 2000 years don't dig gays marrying, but does God really care?

Second, my definition is just two people that want to pool resources and live together for the rest of their lives. Why should anyone not be entitled to that?

I think it's obvious that the gay marriage issue is not about being sickened by fags tramping around in bridal gowns. It's about them being pissed off that their life-partner is not allowed to file taxes with them and get on the health plan. Sure insurance costs have skyrocketed and this would not help. But any reason you have why gays shouldn't receive the same legal benefits as straights is a total crock of bullshit. I wish they would all go away, but they will not. I think Bush is scum for trying to trample their rights just because it's a nice issue that he can debate. Don't you see that? This country is about Freedom. The Constitution protects our Freedom. This asshole wants to change it to make Americans less free. That is truly FUCKED UP.

[wraytw]

Originally posted by ODShowtime
[B]I agree with your stated view about illegal immigration. We are totally fucking up with that and we are paying for it.

Yup. And I don't see any future President having the balls to change this anytime soon.

First of all, marriage is defined by some as a sacred union under God.

No, it is a sacred union under God. Where did marriage originate? The Catholic church.

Would a just and loving God restrict that?

Yes, because homosexuality is not accepted under God. Does he forgive if you repent? That's what they say. But gays getting married certainly isn't repenting.

Sure, people who re-wrote the bible in the last 2000 years don't dig gays marrying, but does God really care?

Considering that according to the Bible he destroyed two cities because of rampant homosexual acts, I'd say that he does.

Second, my definition is just two people that want to pool resources and live together for the rest of their lives. Why should anyone not be entitled to that?

I think it's obvious that the gay marriage issue is not about being sickened by fags tramping around in bridal gowns. It's about them being pissed off that their life-partner is not allowed to file taxes with them and get on the health plan. Sure insurance costs have skyrocketed and this would not help. But any reason you have why gays shouldn't receive the same legal benefits as straights is a total crock of bullshit. I wish they would all go away, but they will not. I think Bush is scum for trying to trample their rights just because it's a nice issue that he can debate. Don't you see that? This country is about Freedom. The Constitution protects our Freedom. This asshole wants to change it to make Americans less free. That is truly FUCKED UP.

Civil unions would fix all of that.

[Warham]

Regarding God and homosexuality in the Bible (just to make sure there's any misunderstandings)...

Leviticus 20:13 "If a man lies with a man as one lies with a woman, both of them have done what is detestable. They must be put to death; their blood will be on their own heads."

And I'm sure you've read or heard of the story of Sodom and Gamorrah.

At least in the Old Testament, God didn't look too kindly to homosexuality

[ODShowtime]

I think we are circling around the same conclusion. But it's 4:30. Happy hour time finally. Boy did I fuck off today.

[JCOOK]

Let you tell it, Im' gettin paid from 7:00A.M. to 2:30P.M. PST.

[FORD]

If you believe that God nuked all of Sodom county because he was pissed off at a couple of gay guys, then you also have to believe that God endorses rape and incest.

Here's the deal - Lot gets a visit from these angels. Given the patriarchal nature of the Bible (due to Hebrew culture) these angels are assumed to be male, but their actual gender isn't mentioned. Or for that matter, do angels have a gender??

Anyway the dudes in the city say : Yo Lot, send your friends out so we may know them. Now here's where people assume too much. At other points in the King James version there are verses that say "Adam KNEW his wife" and things along those lines. So the word "know"is presumed to refer to sexual intercourse. However, that context is NOT made clear in Genesis 19 at all.

But for sake of argument, we'll go with it. So these guys say "Hey Lot. We want to fuck your angel friends. Send 'em out".

Now clearly, angels wouldn't consent to sex, assuming they're even physically capable of the act. Which would make any action taking place here RAPE.

Surely rape would piss off God, angels or otherwise.

Except Lot, the supposedly only righteous dude in town missed that memo. Because he said "Hey guys, leave my angel friends alone, and rape my daughters instead!"

Now he wouldn't have even made the offer if the guys were GAY, because that would have been pointless. And there's no mention of what the girls thought of dad's idea.

Not that the girls were right in the head either. Because after God nukes Sodom and Gommorrah (BTW what did the Gommorrahites do anyway?) the girls are way too horny and they say "Hey, let's get daddy drunk and fuck him!" Luckily their mom had become a 5'5" salt lick and didn't have to watch, but that must have been one Hell of a scene.

And we're supposed to believe THAT was cool with God??

[DLR'sCock]

Bush will lose in Nov 2004....

[wraytw]

Really, Cock? Did you copy and paste that one?

[ODShowtime]

Awe man, I leave for the weekend, and Ford is the only one who added anything fun.

His thoughts on Sodom illustrate one of my points, the danger of using the Bible for any kind of debate or as the source of law. It's been translated out of dozens of languages by dozens of people, each interpreting (or downright changing) the meaning as it goes, for their own benefit (usually to control people more). While the Koran might be the actual word of God, the Bible is not exactly accurate. Ask any knowledgable man of the faith and he'll tell you. It's fine as a fun summertime read or a blueprint to live your life by, but taking passages out of context can create problems.