The president’s taxes

[Seshmeister]

They both talked for around 38 minutes but during Bidens time Trump interrupted 128 times. That's more than 3 times a minute FFS.

It was clearly his deliberate tactic to disrupt any debate.

[FORD]

Wallace was supposed to be the "experienced" moderator here. If he let Cheeto walk all over him, it's hard to imagine the inexperienced Steve Scully (C-Span) or Kristen Welker (MSDNC) doing better. Though it's worth mentioning that the people supposedly in charge of these debates are now saying that moderators will have "additional tools" to control the next debate, which I assume will include a mute button for Cheeto's microphone if he can't fucking shut up when it's not his turn to talk.

Dana Bash (CNN) had the best critque of the debate: "It was a shit show"

[FORD]

cnbc.com
Trump vs. Biden debate rules to change, with possible mic mute, after ugly first round
Dan Mangan,Kevin Breuninger


The group that sponsors the presidential debates said Wednesday that it will make format changes to the next two showdowns between President Donald Trump and Democratic challenger Joe Biden “to maintain order” in light of their fractious first showdown.

A source close to the Commission on Presidential Debates told NBC News that no final decisions have been made on the changes. But the source also said that the group is considering cutting off a candidate’s microphone if they violate the rules.

The initial debate between Trump and Biden in Cleveland on Tuesday night quickly descended into disorder, with frequent name-calling and interruptions.

Trump on several occasions resisted moderator Chris Wallace’s admonitions to follow the rules and to allow the former vice president Biden to speak uninterrupted.

In a New York Times interview Wednesday, the Fox News journalist Wallace said, “I never dreamt that it would go off the tracks the way it did,” he said.

“Last night’s debate made clear that additional structure should be added to the format of the remaining debates to ensure a more orderly discussion of the issues,” the Commission on Presidential Debates said in a statement.

The commission added that it “will be carefully considering the changes that it will adopt and will announce those measures shortly.”

The commission said it was “grateful to” Wallace “for the professionalism and skill he brought to last night’s debate and intends to ensure that additional tools to maintain order are in place for the remaining debates.”

Tim Murtaugh, spokesman for the Trump campaign, said of the commission, “They’re only doing this because their guy got pummeled last night.”

“President Trump was the dominant force and now Joe Biden is trying to work the refs. They shouldn’t be moving the goalposts and changing the rules in the middle of the game,” Murtaugh said.

Trump in a tweet about the planned changes said, “Try getting a new Anchor and a smarter Democrat candidate!”

Biden told reporters at a campaign event in Ohio that he supported the idea of making changes to the debate format.

“I just hope there’s a way in which the debate commission can control the ability of us to answer the question without interruption,” Biden said. “I’m not going to speculate on what happens in the second or third debate.”

Biden, referring to Trump’s conduct on Tuesday night, said, “He not only attacked me constantly and my family, but he attacked the moderator.”

Wallace told The Times that, “As a practical matter, even if the president’s microphone had been shut [on Tuesday] he still could have continued to interrupt, and it might well have been picked up on Biden’s microphone, and it still would have disrupted the proceedings in the hall,” he said.

The next debate between the Republican incumbent Trump and Biden is scheduled for Oct. 15 in Miami. Steve Scully, the political editor at C-SPAN, is the moderator for the second debate. It will be in a town hall format.

A third presidential debate is scheduled for Oct. 22 at Belmont University in Nashville. NBC News White House correspondent Kristen Welker will moderate that debate.

The first and only vice presidential debate between incumbent Vice President Mike Pence and Sen. Kamala Harris, D-Calif., is scheduled for Oct. 7 at the University of Utah in Salt Lake City. USA Today’s Washington bureau chief, Susan Page, is the moderator for that event.

Aaron Kall, director of the University of Michigan’s debate program and author of “Debating the Donald,” told CNBC, “Given the public outrage over last night’s debate, it’s not surprising the Commission on Presidential Debates would try and do something to quell the disappointment expressed by so many.”

But Kall added, “I do think that changing the previously agreed to debate rules in the middle of this debate cycle increases the odds of not having future debates between President Trump and Biden.”

“In addition to already expressing dissatisfaction with moderator Chris Wallace’s performance last night, it’s easy to envision the Trump campaign arguing the rules of the debates are being changed midcourse in order to protect and advantage Biden,” he said.

Kall noted that Trump skipped the Iowa Republican primary debate in 2016.

“With only a few weeks remaining until the next scheduled presidential debate, that doesn’t leave much time for both sides to reach an agreement on the new rules, which no doubt would be open to multiple interpretations and exceptions,” Kall said.

[Seshmeister]

Biden is 7% ahead in the polls, he should just refuse to do the next 2 debates unless they are properly managed.

[FORD]

[Nickdfresh]

They're talking about allowing the next moderator to shut off mic's for the asshole-interrupter-in-chief....

[FORD]

[Nickdfresh]

At around 3:15 I was ready to bust on this guy when he said, "I ask my mom what she thinks"...I thought he was gonna turn his head up and say "HEY MOM! come downstairs and tell the people what you thought of the debate!"

But he does bring up a point, that whatever Trump's chances were, he basically aborted them by alienating suburban women he had been trying to terrorize into his camp with scary immigrants and black people...

[FORD]

I'm not the biggest Biden fan, obviously. But I was happily surprised when he made a point of mentioning that ANTIFA was an idea as opposed to an organization. (unlike the nazi groups that Cheeto refuses to call out)

[Seshmeister]

This is very interesting. UK Channel 4 news got a hold of the Trump 2016 database.

I think very few people realize what is happening on social media where people are harvesting all those little quiz things and tying up the data so they can target specific stories to specific voters.

[FORD]

As a rule, I despise autotuned anything, but it's Weird Al, so what the fuck.....

[FORD]

George RR Martin's take on the debate

georgerrmartin.com
Ugly, Ugly, Ugly | Not a Blog
4-5 minutes

Profile Pic

I have seen every presidential debate ever held.

I began taking an interest in politics when I was still in grade school. The first presidential election I followed was the race between John Fitzgerald Kennedy and Richard M. Nixon in 1960. I was twelve years old. It was an historic occasion.

Most of you are probably way younger than me. JFK died before you were born. You may not even remember the day he was shot, let alone the election that won him the presidency, or the debates that played such a big part in that contest. But fortunately you have YouTube. Take a look.

Millenials, Gen Xers, Gen Zs, play a little of this. The opening statements, at least. The issues and controversies of 1960 are part of history now, and may not seem hugely relevant to us today (though some of them still are)… but it is the TONE of the debate that I want to draw your attention to. This is what a presidential debate is supposed to look and sound like. Two candidates exchanging views and ideas, debating facts, dealing with the issues of the day, all the while treating each other with respect. It was a DEBATE. Lincoln and Douglas would have been proud. Maybe it was not the most exciting television in the world, but it gave us a good view of both candidates, where they agreed, where they differed.

I have seen every subsequent debate as well. Nixon and Kennedy had three more of these, and I watched. I was watching when Ford blew his election against Carter with a gaffe about Eastern Europe. I was watching when Bill Clinton turned the 1992 race in the three-way debate with Bush the Elder and Ross Perot. I saw Ronald Reagan debate Jimmy Carter, and John Anderson, and Walter Mondale. I watched Obama against McCain, and Obama against Romney. I saw all the good moments, and all the bad ones.

I have never seen anything like what I witnessed last night.

It was appalling. Offensive. Disgusting. Donald Trump was bad four years ago in his debates with Hillary Clinton, but last night he set new records for being offensive, obnoxious, and rude. He ranted, he raved, he shouted, he interrupted again and again and again and AGAIN, refusing to let Joe Biden finish a sentence without breaking in. He spoke over Biden, he spoke over the moderator, he ignored the questions, he ignored the rules — rules his own campaign had negotiated and agreed to — he told shocking lies, and doubled down when called on them, he engaged in smears and personal attacks, he tried to discredit the result of the vote before most of America has even voted.

This was not the behavior of a president. This was not the behavior of a presidential candidate.

This was the behavior of a schoolyard bully, an obnoxious child, the tinpot strongman of some third world dictatorship.

Look at the debate from 1960. Can you imagine either Kennedy or Nixon engaging in behavior like this? I am certainly no fan of Nixon, and he did some pretty shady things when he got into the White House (Watergate and all). He said some pretty obnoxious stuff in his private moments as well. So did LBJ. So did other presidents, other candidates. IN PRIVATE. None of them would ever have behaved like Trump did in public.

It is not a question of Democrat v Republican, or Liberal v Conservative. Nixon would not have behaved as Trump did. Ronald Reagan would not have done so. Nor Eisenhower, nor John McCain, nor Barry Goldwater.

Donald Trump disgraced the presidency last night. He took a piss all over democracy.

All other issues aside — and there are hugely important issues being decided this year, from race relations to climate change to the pandemic — last night’s “debate” proved one thing beyond any doubt. Joe Biden is a decent human being, and Donald Trump is not.

[Seshmeister]

Well to me you would think that unless you were a hardline right wing Trump supporter that was bad,

if say you were a middle aged white independent or non authoritarian/extreme religious Republican, you would maybe have more misgivings about his performance but I don't see anyone like that here saying that,

[ZahZoo]

I think all this hoopla is missing a key point no one even takes into consideration any more at this phase... Trump isn't a career politician.

All the comparative analysis of past debates... all the expectations of "proper debate decorum"... all the this isn't how it's supposed to work crap... is all based on historical performances by career politicians. It's all wrong...

Problem here... the incumbent and primary participant is not who a lot of people are expecting him to be and behave.

America elected a non-politician who ran on the promise of not doing things the way they have been done in the past. All the folks complaining today seem to have forgotten this or defiantly refuse to accept the reality staring them in the face.

My personal opinion... it was a really shitty debate. It didn't produce the results nor inform the people what they came expecting to learn and observe. Is it a surprise that the rules of debate were not followed... hell no.

There was a past his prime, ineffective career politician muddling through it poorly trying to appear in charge and a rude, New York asshole, billionaire behaving badly as expected.

Frame it in those definitive terms... no surprise at the results.

[Seshmeister]

I think all this hoopla is missing a key point no one even takes into consideration any more at this phase... Trump isn't a career politician.

He is now he's been the president for 4 years.

It's the only fucking job he's ever had apart from pissing away his dad's dodgy fortune.

Hitler was a painter not a career politician?