Lynne Cheney: 'Tawdry' Kerry 'Is Not a Good Man'

**JCOOK** · 10-15-2004, 12:32 AM

Paraphrase of Kerry...."Dick Cheneys' daughter is a FAG".....Bob....
LEAVE IT ALONE HERMAN

**Cathedral** · 10-15-2004, 12:33 AM

The topic is not about Constitutional Ammendments, it is about taking someone's personal issues and making it a campaign issue.

It is apparently a hot topic in the Cheney family which is even more reason that Kerry should have picked someone else to use as an example.
I have heard all day how Democrats are trying to defend what Kerry and Edwards did in both those debates.
But "logic" suggests that it was a political tool to either divide Bush from Cheney, or drive the Christian supporters who may not have known about this issue not to vote for Bush.

I see only one way that it could be deamed acceptable, and that is if Kerry and Edwards both had discussed this issue with Cheney's daughter and knew her opinion. (Knew what the fuck they were talking about)
All Kerry did was give his opinion on what her "supposed" opinion would be, in other words, he had no point other than to make sure that every single person watching the debate knew she was gay.

And being referred to as a homophobe every time someone speaks out against homosexuality is just wrong. I don't agree with that lifestyle at all, the reasons why are well known so i'll spare you all a repeat of my position on that.

It was, as Kerry's top advisor stated right after the debate, "Fair Game". That sounds like it was more a planned political posturing tactic than giving what Ford called a "Resonable Answer", which it was for desperate Democrats that from what i can figure aren't that sure they can win this election.

Thing is, Mr. and Mrs. Cheney did not like it, and the Kerry campaign knew they wouldn't and did it not once, but twice.
John Edwards was lucky he didn't get pounced right off that stage because i saw what everyone saw in the VP Debate, Cheney was pissed and his response was short.

They knew what they were doing and anyone with half a brain (where's Wayne L.?) knew it too.

But, you can drag it through the partisan shit pile if you want to.
Kerry did himself serious damage as far as the woman vote goes, and his statement today proves that he knows it backfired and jumped right on controlling the damage.

Sure you can claim it was alright, but those undecided voters that reacted to the mess didn't think so.

We shall see just how bad it hurt Kerry over the next 18 days.

**FORD** · 10-15-2004, 12:53 AM

John Kerry's lesbian moment

Dick and Lynne Cheney screamed foul when the Democratic candidate mentioned their gay daughter. But for gays and lesbians, what is most outrageous is the Cheneys' outrage.

- - - - - - - - - - - -
By Dave Cullen

Oct. 15, 2004 | America's most notorious lesbian is back.

In the final presidential debate, John Kerry responded to a gay-rights question with a reference to Vice President Dick Cheney's gay daughter. The vice president's wife, Lynne Cheney, immediately went ballistic, condemning Kerry in her most moralistic tones as "not a good man" for the "cheap and tawdry political trick." By Thursday morning, it was all over the news networks, with the vice president also impugning Kerry's character and describing himself as "a pretty angry father." CNN's Wolf Blitzer gravely speculated that the controversy could dominate the entire post-debate landscape. Well, yeah, if the Cheneys -- supposedly outraged by the violation of their daughter's privacy -- get their way and keep the issue burning brightly in the public eye.

How incredibly sad for Mary Cheney, the lesbian in question. And not for the reasons that her parents and the pundits have been screaming about.

First, let's dispense with the comic aspects of the parental indignation:

Mary Cheney has been happily out of the closet for at least a decade, so John Kerry was hardly dragging her out against her will. She spent the late '90s working as a veritable professional lesbian, as gay and lesbian corporate relations manager for Coors Brewing Co. Dick Cheney himself has been using her sexuality on the campaign trail. Click here to watch a Human Rights Campaign ad with him on the stump on Aug. 24, 2004: "Lynne and I have a gay daughter ... " The Bush-Cheney administration has shamelessly used homosexuality as a wedge issue, never hesitating to play the sodomite card when it serves their political ends. John Edwards brought up Mary Cheney in response to a similar gay-rights question just eight days earlier in the veep debate. Dick Cheney responded by thanking him for his kind remarks.

Maybe Dick's indignation began later that night watching "The Daily Show." Jon Stewart poked fun at Edwards for opportunistically screaming GAY DAUGHTER! GAY DAUGHTER! to any homophobe out there who still hadn't heard about it.

It didn't go much further, but twice in one week was apparently too much -- for the Cheneys and for the media. The conservative cable clones began piling on. Even some liberals have been squeamish about the Democrats invoking Mary's lesbianism so shamelessly.

But they just don't get it. Much of the gay population is incensed. At the media.

Let's get one thing straight. It is not an insult to call a proudly public lesbian a lesbian. It's an insult to gasp when someone calls her a lesbian. That's how all the gays I have spoken to the past 24 hours perceived the press response. You're embarrassed for us. And it's infuriating.

Consider the way a paraplegic or a blind person feels when you act just a little too sympathetic about their "plight." We don't want your pity! Can you see how insulting it is?

The only thing offensive about Kerry's statement to us gay people was that he had to pause mid-sentence and gulp and sputter the terrifying word out: "Dick Cheney's daughter, who is ... a lesbian ..."

It's not a dirty word, John. And why is the press reacting like he exposed a breast?

The most outlandish exchange I've seen came in a scholarly Fox News debate Thursday -- seriously, it happens -- over the candidates' linguistic styles, of all things. The conservative guy, Eric Dezenhall, charged that "the invocation of Vice President Cheney's daughter's lesbianism was sort of a radioactive concept. The words lesbian in a presidential debate -- even if you don't mean it to be mean -- came across as off the grid, and very, very shrill."

Is he serious? If it's innocent little gay people you think you're protecting here, listen up! Gay people do not consider the invocation of our existence radioactive. It's the comparisons to plutonium that drive us nuts. We are not toxic.

A gay reader e-mailed to lament that, "I've heard my own mom say that she wished there was a 'nicer' word" than "lesbian."

At least he didn't have Lynne Cheney for a mom.

Her response was truly deplorable. If Mary Cheney is distraught this morning, it's likely her mother is the cause. And it's perplexing to millions of gay Americans today why the press has not grasped how horrible she acted toward Mary Wednesday night.

Maybe it's understandable. Most of you out there have never been a homo. Let me share a personal story to illustrate how this works for a gay person. I came out to my parents when I was in my 30s -- they were shocked, then understanding, but also a little queasy about it. The queasiness was much less about them accepting me as it was their friends accepting them.

That's the part that stings. No matter how old you get.

Once you're happily out of the closet a few years, you don't bat an eye at someone hearing you're gay. Even on national television. Even if your father's the vice president. (Especially if your father's the vice president -- don't you think she's used to it by now?)

What rips your heart out is when someone close to you denies your sexuality in public. Or shudders at the mention of it, so you can see how desperately they want to.

It may sound like a subtle implication to a straight person -- clearly it does; even the most liberal straight pundits appear oblivious to it -- but a gay person hears it scream out loud and clear. You people still feel there's something to be ashamed of here.

One of the happiest days of my life came when one of the old ladies at my mom's Catholic bridge club mentioned what a nice young husband I'd make. My mother, in her 60s by then, laughed it off. "I don't think that's going to happen," she said. "He's gay."

I was stunned when I heard the story. It had taken her years to get to that point. And it meant everything to me. She didn't care what the bridge ladies thought. She cared more about me.

I doubt very much that Mary Cheney gives a rat's ass if some church lady in Idaho knows she's gay. But her mother cringing at the church lady knowing -- that's gotta hurt like hell.

link

**Sarge's Little Helper** · 10-15-2004, 12:53 AM

John Kerry's lesbian moment

Dick and Lynne Cheney screamed foul when the Democratic candidate mentioned their gay daughter. But for gays and lesbians, what is most outrageous is the Cheneys' outrage.

- - - - - - - - - - - -
By Dave Cullen

Oct. 15, 2004 | America's most notorious lesbian is back.

In the final presidential debate, John Kerry responded to a gay-rights question with a reference to Vice President Dick Cheney's gay daughter. The vice president's wife, Lynne Cheney, immediately went ballistic, condemning Kerry in her most moralistic tones as "not a good man" for the "cheap and tawdry political trick." By Thursday morning, it was all over the news networks, with the vice president also impugning Kerry's character and describing himself as "a pretty angry father." CNN's Wolf Blitzer gravely speculated that the controversy could dominate the entire post-debate landscape. Well, yeah, if the Cheneys -- supposedly outraged by the violation of their daughter's privacy -- get their way and keep the issue burning brightly in the public eye.

How incredibly sad for Mary Cheney, the lesbian in question. And not for the reasons that her parents and the pundits have been screaming about.

First, let's dispense with the comic aspects of the parental indignation:

Mary Cheney has been happily out of the closet for at least a decade, so John Kerry was hardly dragging her out against her will. She spent the late '90s working as a veritable professional lesbian, as gay and lesbian corporate relations manager for Coors Brewing Co. Dick Cheney himself has been using her sexuality on the campaign trail. Click here to watch a Human Rights Campaign ad with him on the stump on Aug. 24, 2004: "Lynne and I have a gay daughter ... " The Bush-Cheney administration has shamelessly used homosexuality as a wedge issue, never hesitating to play the sodomite card when it serves their political ends. John Edwards brought up Mary Cheney in response to a similar gay-rights question just eight days earlier in the veep debate. Dick Cheney responded by thanking him for his kind remarks.

Maybe Dick's indignation began later that night watching "The Daily Show." Jon Stewart poked fun at Edwards for opportunistically screaming GAY DAUGHTER! GAY DAUGHTER! to any homophobe out there who still hadn't heard about it.

It didn't go much further, but twice in one week was apparently too much -- for the Cheneys and for the media. The conservative cable clones began piling on. Even some liberals have been squeamish about the Democrats invoking Mary's lesbianism so shamelessly.

But they just don't get it. Much of the gay population is incensed. At the media.

Let's get one thing straight. It is not an insult to call a proudly public lesbian a lesbian. It's an insult to gasp when someone calls her a lesbian. That's how all the gays I have spoken to the past 24 hours perceived the press response. You're embarrassed for us. And it's infuriating.

Consider the way a paraplegic or a blind person feels when you act just a little too sympathetic about their "plight." We don't want your pity! Can you see how insulting it is?

The only thing offensive about Kerry's statement to us gay people was that he had to pause mid-sentence and gulp and sputter the terrifying word out: "Dick Cheney's daughter, who is ... a lesbian ..."

It's not a dirty word, John. And why is the press reacting like he exposed a breast?

The most outlandish exchange I've seen came in a scholarly Fox News debate Thursday -- seriously, it happens -- over the candidates' linguistic styles, of all things. The conservative guy, Eric Dezenhall, charged that "the invocation of Vice President Cheney's daughter's lesbianism was sort of a radioactive concept. The words lesbian in a presidential debate -- even if you don't mean it to be mean -- came across as off the grid, and very, very shrill."

Is he serious? If it's innocent little gay people you think you're protecting here, listen up! Gay people do not consider the invocation of our existence radioactive. It's the comparisons to plutonium that drive us nuts. We are not toxic.

A gay reader e-mailed to lament that, "I've heard my own mom say that she wished there was a 'nicer' word" than "lesbian."

At least he didn't have Lynne Cheney for a mom.

Her response was truly deplorable. If Mary Cheney is distraught this morning, it's likely her mother is the cause. And it's perplexing to millions of gay Americans today why the press has not grasped how horrible she acted toward Mary Wednesday night.

Maybe it's understandable. Most of you out there have never been a homo. Let me share a personal story to illustrate how this works for a gay person. I came out to my parents when I was in my 30s -- they were shocked, then understanding, but also a little queasy about it. The queasiness was much less about them accepting me as it was their friends accepting them.

That's the part that stings. No matter how old you get.

Once you're happily out of the closet a few years, you don't bat an eye at someone hearing you're gay. Even on national television. Even if your father's the vice president. (Especially if your father's the vice president -- don't you think she's used to it by now?)

What rips your heart out is when someone close to you denies your sexuality in public. Or shudders at the mention of it, so you can see how desperately they want to.

It may sound like a subtle implication to a straight person -- clearly it does; even the most liberal straight pundits appear oblivious to it -- but a gay person hears it scream out loud and clear. You people still feel there's something to be ashamed of here.

One of the happiest days of my life came when one of the old ladies at my mom's Catholic bridge club mentioned what a nice young husband I'd make. My mother, in her 60s by then, laughed it off. "I don't think that's going to happen," she said. "He's gay."

I was stunned when I heard the story. It had taken her years to get to that point. And it meant everything to me. She didn't care what the bridge ladies thought. She cared more about me.

I doubt very much that Mary Cheney gives a rat's ass if some church lady in Idaho knows she's gay. But her mother cringing at the church lady knowing -- that's gotta hurt like hell.

link

Oops. I wasn't paying attention. Tell me again what is going on.

**JCOOK** · 10-15-2004, 01:31 AM

Herman wants to drag peoples children into this.

**Cathedral** · 10-15-2004, 01:35 AM

Hey, it happened, it backfired, 4 more years....Thanks John and John.

**Snow Ho** · 10-15-2004, 11:05 AM

i'd like to know why is she so upset over kerry's comments yet had nothing to say about this:

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/5897569/

**ELVIS** · 10-15-2004, 11:11 AM

I think John Edwards is ashamed to be married to a fat pig wife...

**Cathedral** · 10-15-2004, 11:37 AM

Originally posted by Snow Ho
i'd like to know why is she so upset over kerry's comments yet had nothing to say about this:

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/5897569/

Because Alan Keyes isn't using her to get votes in an election, and didn't throw it directly in their face as cheap political trick.
It's all about the context and the forum.

I agree with Keyes assessment by the way.

**FORD** · 10-15-2004, 11:39 AM

Originally posted by Snow Ho
i'd like to know why is she so upset over kerry's comments yet had nothing to say about this:

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/5897569/

That's a very good question. And the likely answer is that Alan Keyes is a right wing Republican who is ashamed of his own Lesbian daughter, so he's cleared for comments, while Democrats with heterosexual children, who might actually defend her daughter's constitutional rights and aren't ashamed of their queer relatives should just stay out of it

**Snow Ho** · 10-15-2004, 12:22 PM

Originally posted by FORD
That's a very good question. And the likely answer is that Alan Keyes is a right wing Republican who is ashamed of his own Lesbian daughter, so he's cleared for comments, while Democrats with heterosexual children, who might actually defend her daughter's constitutional rights and aren't ashamed of their queer relatives should just stay out of it

keyes has a gay kid?? he's about as anti-gay as they get.
hmm i wonder if there's a genetic connection to being gay and having republican parents.

**FORD** · 10-15-2004, 12:28 PM

Originally posted by Snow Ho
keyes has a gay kid?? he's about as anti-gay as they get.
hmm i wonder if there's a genetic connection to being gay and having republican parents.

I always thought of it as God's way of teaching them a lesson in tolerance. The prevailing right wing myth is that if you bring up your kids to be good little right wing sheep then they would never do anything as "immoral" as "choose" to be gay.

Yet so many prominent right wing families have gay relatives. The Keyeses, the Cheneys, the Gingriches, the Schlafly's, just to name a few, and the jury's still out on Ron Reagan Jr.

**ELVIS** · 10-15-2004, 01:09 PM

Originally posted by FORD
I always thought of it as God's way of teaching them a lesson in tolerance.

You are a real idiot...

God doesn't create Gay individuals to teach people a lesson...

You're a lost soul...

You need Jesus, my friend...

**FORD** · 10-15-2004, 01:34 PM

Originally posted by ELVIS
You are a real idiot...

God doesn't create Gay individuals to teach people a lesson...

You're a lost soul...

You need Jesus, my friend...

I know Jesus and I try to live by His teachings. Not to say I don't fail miserably at times, but at least I know that to be the case and can admit it. As opposed to right wingers who don't even know WHAT His teachings are.

God works in mysterious ways, and who are you to say what He might do to help someone lose a hateful prejudice?

**ELVIS** · 10-15-2004, 01:47 PM

God allows evil where it is welcomed...

Walking in the light of the savior can be extermely difficult at times...

Stumbling is going to happen, it is written, but you must get back up, and I believe that means wholeheartedly...

God knows our hearts 100%...

Failing miserably as you say, I believe is a choice, and that's turning your back on God...

Lynne Cheney: 'Tawdry' Kerry 'Is Not a Good Man'

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