Boss TU-2 chromatic tuner....

[jhale667]

I agree, to a certain extent, music shouldn't be cut and pasted together it should be played live.........the exception is, overdubbing parts.

It does make it easier/faster to overdub tracks after the bed tracks are done but taking and cutting/copying the verse or chorus and pasting them into the other verses/choruses takes out the live vibe!

That's actually what a lot of people, myself included - do to avoid sounding "mechanical" w/ digital recording. A rhythm guitar track is going to sound way cooler played all the way through (to a click!) with subtle differences in the repeating verses/choruses or whatever, than playing the part once and assembling the track like you're cutting and pasting on a spreadsheet in Excel. Cool if you're Linkin Park, not so much in any other application.

But when you get to doubling parts, overdubs etc - especially complicated parts - the timing needs to be in sync, and the guitars should be IN TUNE. Y'know, unless you're into sounding shitty.

[ELVIS]

Dick...

[ELVIS]

Y'know, unless you're into sounding shitty.

Something you're an expert at...

[jhale667]

Something you're an expert at...

Riiiight. Let's review - you have the tone of a gnat farting through a transistor radio, you foolishly delude yourself into believing your ear is more accurate than a tuner, and you can't play to a click track.


You're clearly the expert on sucking here, Goober. No one can take that title away from you!

[kwame k]

That's actually what a lot of people, myself included - do to avoid sounding "mechanical" w/ digital recording. A rhythm guitar track is going to sound way cooler played all the way through (to a click!) with subtle differences in the repeating verses/choruses or whatever, than playing the part once and assembling the track like you're cutting and pasting on a spreadsheet in Excel. Cool if you're Linkin Park, not so much in any other application.

But when you get to doubling parts, overdubs etc - especially complicated parts - the timing needs to be in sync, and the guitars should be IN TUNE. Y'know, unless you're into sounding shitty.

By no means am I saying a click is useless.......it serves it's function, it's just some music seems to be hindered by it. Aerosmith is a classic example of a drummer sounding like the click he's playing to.......take any Aerosmith song and go tick, tock, tick, tock, etc..........IMO (and yes this is only my opinion) there's no groove or flow to drums.

On the other hand.....listen to Dave Grohl or the Foofighters and his shit swings, yet he's using a click for a lot of their stuff.

Learn every trick you can but.......use what works for you and the band.

[jhale667]

By no means am I saying a click is useless.......it serves it's function, it's just some music seems to be hindered by it. Aerosmith is a classic example of a drummer sounding like the click he's playing to.......take any Aerosmith song and go tick, tock, tick, tock, etc..........IMO (and yes this is only my opinion) there's no groove or flow to drums.

On the other hand.....listen to Dave Grohl or the Foofighters and his shit swings, yet he's using a click for a lot of their stuff.

Learn every trick you can but.......use what works for you and the band.

I agree, and wasn't implying you're the one stating you "don't need one". YOU choose not to use one, it's not that you can't. Your stuff isn't all over the place tempo-wise, though - nor are you criticizing everyone else's material like you think you're the redneck Simon Cowell or some shit.



Also agree certain drummers get hung up on click tracks and can't groove (in time). Never was a huge Joey Kramer fan. But Grohl can do it, Frankie Banali can, MOST pro drummers don't have issues with 'em - and the ones that do aren't anywhere near as in demand for sessions from what I'm told.

[kwame k]

No offense was taken, Jay! I knew what your were saying

When I was recording with a buddy from OR and everything was sent via the net.........everything was done to clicks.

He'd send a guitar and a click to get the general idea of what the tempo was and a way that I could overdub parts to. We did, in the writing phase, cut and paste stuff. The classic writing thang.......I think the verse should be the chorus!

Now that I'm writing with people who are physically in the room.......we haven't used a click. All of our stuff is recorded in this sequence;

1. Drums, rhythm guitar and a scratch vocal.
2. Overdubs for rhythm guitar, lead vocals, backing vocals and piano parts.
3. Bass and more vocals.
4. Lead guitar and filler overdubs.

Basically when we have a good drum track we start overdubbing.

****edit***

Add to that.......everything we're recording is going to get rerecorded.

You know......that there fancy word, Preproduction/writing demos

[chefcraig]

I can't imagine building up a song from the bottom, track by track, without a click or even a simple metronome to work as a guide. I've tried it without one in the past, and unless it's a simple 12 bar blues pattern, have found it damned near impossible. In a band situation, I'm not that bad, but left to my own devices, my timing is somewhat nebulous, to say the least. As a result, without a click, I have a tremendously difficult time getting complex or even uncomplicated passages to come out in unison. "Don't Fear The Reaper" comes out as "Dear Christ, Get Out The Carpet Sweeper."

[jhale667]

No offense was taken, Jay! I knew what your were saying

When I was recording with a buddy from OR and everything was sent via the net.........everything was done to clicks.

He'd send a guitar and a click to get the general idea of what the tempo was and a way that I could overdub parts to. We did, in the writing phase, cut and paste stuff. The classic writing thang.......I think the verse should be the chorus!

Now that I'm writing with people who are physically in the room.......we haven't used a click. All of our stuff is recorded in this sequence;

1. Drums, rhythm guitar and a scratch vocal.
2. Overdubs for rhythm guitar, lead vocals, backing vocals and piano parts.
3. Bass and more vocals.
4. Lead guitar and filler overdubs.

Basically when we have a good drum track we start overdubbing.

Good way to do it if everyone's there and the decision is made not to use a click. Even back in the day when clicks weren't the norm, usually the drums went down first... most often with a scratch guitar and/or bass track that were later replaced. Recording guitar parts without a click first and THEN trying to sync drums (real or mechanical) after the fact is completely bass-ackwards. Why would anyone intentionally make things more difficult than they need to be?


Agree if you're trading tracks and working remotely, a click is a MUST.

[kwame k]

Agreed........I couldn't imagine trying to record drums to a guitar part that doesn't have a click!

The process seems to be working for us now.......when we record these songs for real, I may use a click........who knows!

[kwame k]

I can't imagine building up a song from the bottom, track by track, without a click or even a simple metronome to work as a guide. I've tried it without one in the past, and unless it's a simple 12 bar blues pattern, have found it damned near impossible. In a band situation, I'm not that bad, but left to my own devices, my timing is somewhat nebulous, to say the least. As a result, without a click, I have a tremendously difficult time getting complex or even uncomplicated passages to come out in unison. "Don't Fear The Reaper" comes out as "Dear Christ, Get Out The Carpet Sweeper."

Yep, I think you should use whatever makes the music the best and gets the best performances out of you and the band.

I wouldn't discard one method over ego or personal preference, at the risk of making the overall project lag!

[jhale667]

Agreed........I couldn't imagine trying to record drums to a guitar part that doesn't have a click!

The process seems to be working for us now.......when we record these songs for real, I may use a click........who knows!

I'm going to get to record 5 of mine "for real" with the help of a producer friend soon ( not going to drop the name or who he's worked with, but he offered, and I'd be an idiot to refuse). Looking like the issue for us will be what emulations to keep, vs. what we have the cash, time and amps to re-record traditionally. Also tough deciding which 5.

But the fact remains that - if, when he and I started talking about working together, I had sent him demos w/ out-of-tune guitar tracks that weren't recorded to a click, and when he asked WTF I was thinking I arrogantly replied "I do things MY way!", you can bet the discussions wouldn't have gotten very far..

[kwame k]

The reason we're even releasing any of these demos is to generate interest in the band.......over 112 new fans in less than 2 weeks!

The other "sneaky" reason is to see what songs people are liking and listening to the most. Those will be the ones on the album and released as singles!

Use the social media to your advantage........let the fans pick which songs are worth recording first!

[ELVIS]

You're like a hit machine, eh ??

[LoungeMachine]

You're like a hit machine, eh ??

Compared to you?

Everyone is....