Another gay goodbye thread

[Sensible Shoes]

The problem with this thread is that people actually have to READ the posts before it will calm down. And nobody is heeding some great advice from numerous people.

[LoungeMachine]

Just for the record Envy_Me's account here has not been accessed from outside Sweden.

Maybe not recently, but it has at least once.

She gave me her log in info and asked me to go in and read some things, and giver her advice on how to handle certain assholes who were backstabbing her. She trusted me with the info.

Just as I've trusted a certain admin here with MY log in info as well.

Do I think for one minute WARF is above hacking envy's or anyone else's he dislikes FB account? Hell no, of course he would. Nothing is private or sacred to him. His constant threats of "trolling" and "destroying" are well documented here.

And VON is correct. NO ONE from here goes to The Lurks and stirs this shit up. They prefer to shit in THIS sandbox and claim their playground is shit free.

Seems like certain people have this weird fixation on how "important" it is/was to have "built" certain sites, as if they carved Mt. Rushmore with a butter knife by themselves.

But the bottom line is this. No one from HERE is stalking people in their real lives, or threatening to......yet HERE is where all of the drama remains because we don't have any interest in shitting in their sandbox.

The problem is pretty obvious. WARF and his drunken threats and claims. He uses this site to try and get traffic over there, all the while shitting here and then claiming he runs Shangri La over there.

The guy is stuck in 2000-2004. And his hero and mentor is as well.

[Dr. Love]

What sort of measure of "accountability" has been achieved here?

You're one of the few left of the original staff... how'd all that work out before Fans?

There's not much value in discussing it. Everyone involved (and then some more) were let go from the team more or less as a result of the nonsense from January. You guys have your site, and I wish you nothing but the best with it and I hope its a lot of fun for you guys. Sesh and Von have been extremely lenient in applying their handful of rules (to the point that even I am impressed with the leniency, and I argue the most against all forms of moderation or banning of anyone).

To my knowledge, chef, myself, Von, Sesh, twona, Sarge, VA, conmee, etc, etc, etc aren't over at RothFans stirring the pot every few days, breaking the rules (I have no idea if you guys have a lot of rules or a few) and generally dragging this shit out for months on end. If we were, I have a strong suspicion we'd be told to knock it off if it became a point of contention amongst the team, and if people didn't want to get on board with the team, we'd part ways. So from my vantage point, there has been accountability, and its been pretty fairly applied across the board, with an extreme sense of leniency.

Think about it this way. A fair number of people (some of which you may even consider to be reasonable individuals) seem to think that you guys are associated with what's going on and are enabling it. While you may ardently disagree with the premise, consider for a moment why people might think that way. No amount of arguing the point is going to change the perception. That's not how it works. Perceptions have to be managed. It's really a question of if you care what those people think about you and if you consider it important enough to manage or not. I get why you feel you guys shouldn't be guilty by association. I can rationalize it and see where you are coming from. Doesn't mean my point of view is the same.

My reply wasn't intended to instigate change on your site. I'm not interested in trying to control what you guys do. I simply wanted to satirize and make light of the dichotomy between your point of view (we aren't guilty by association) and the view point of the others (you are guilty by association)

[Anonymous]

Now, this may be a crazy idea, but has anybody considered, when a fight erupts, NOT bringing others into it?

I mean, just duke it out amongst the willing participants, those who volunteered. Stop trying to get other people to watch your little "exhibition".

Maybe this way the number of participants will be ever dwindling.

Cheers!

[Anonymous]

I vote for Links. Considering their "non-music" forum has become an annex of Stormfront.org in recent years, it couldn't possibly get any worse.

Grate idea.

Let's close up both sites & head on over there to cuntinue the bullshit.

I'm sending an e-mail to our members to start registering/recovering their passwords & set up shop there.

This'll be ACE!!!

Cheers!

[FORD]

I could ban Warf or anyone else at Fans right now for their behavior here... Somehow I seriously doubt it would help anything here. We could close up the whole site there right now... Somehow I don't think it would help anything here...

We could close up both sites... Where's it move to next? TCR? Links? ClassicVH?

I vote for Links. Considering their "non-music" forum has become an annex of Stormfront.org in recent years, it couldn't possibly get any worse.

[ZahZoo]

Well, if you asked several times, I guess there's nothing else you can do to introduce any sort of accountability!

Everyone, listen up! They asked for this not to happen but it did anyway. Their hands are tied! We just have to accept it. They did their best!



Probably a good idea not to try to actually assign any sort of consequence to his actions. I mean, just last January the admins of this site attached consequences to his actions and we've had to deal with the aftermath ever since. Who wants that? Better to just be held hostage to his whims, right?

I could ban Warf or anyone else at Fans right now for their behavior here... Somehow I seriously doubt it would help anything here. We could close up the whole site there right now... Somehow I don't think it would help anything here...

We could close up both sites... Where's it move to next? TCR? Links? ClassicVH?

[Anonymous]

Well said, Chef. Except for quoting Rocky IV.

Allow me to pick a sentence & ask you a question, even though you're not involved in this. Feel free not to answer, or tell me to fuck off.

Yeah, we all do some pretty horrific shit from time to time, and I'll be the first to admit that I've been a Class-A clusterfuck my entire life, and have hurt more than a fair share of people in the process.

I known some people who did the same & all their "friends" dropped them like a hot potato for fear of being held accountable by people they probably never saw again. If this happened to happen,... huh... If this happened to happen to you, I bet it it wasn't a good feeling, was it?

Cheers!

[chefcraig]

I dunno...Look, none of us is the same person we were 10, 15, hell, even 5 years ago. There is some sort of pathetically naive spirit in me that believes people can adapt and better themselves. Admittedly, this concept has come back and took a dump in my face several times over the years, but I still hold strong and fast to it, despite evidence to the contrary.

Yeah, we all do some pretty horrific shit from time to time, and I'll be the first to admit that I've been a Class-A cluster-fuck my entire life, and have hurt more than a fair share of people in the process. Perhaps it's guilt or an atoning of my sins, yet recently, through my current occupation, I've found myself doing crap such as being compassionate and helping people. Sweet tap-dancing Jesus, if you told me 8-9 years ago I'd be doing such things, let alone enjoying them, I would have laughed you out of the bar with my construction boot placed firmly in yer ass.

To sum up, I can only defer to the words of the gifted master thespian Sylvester Stallone in Rocky IV:

Rocky: During this fight, I've seen a lot of changing, in the way you feel about me, and in the way I feel about you. In here, there were two guys killing each other, but I guess that's better than twenty million. I guess what I'm trying to say, is that if I can change, and you can change, everybody can change!

[ZahZoo]

Dr Love, What sort of measure of "accountability" has been achieved here?

You're one of the few left of the original staff... how'd all that work out before Fans?

[cadaverdog]

But using someones real name on a photoshop of their real face is searchable and pulled up in the real world by relatives, prospective employers, etc... which she may or may not be given the opportunity to explain it is not real or she may just be notified sorry we liked another candidate better. No way of knowing. So it is a real attack, with possible real life consequence.
Eventually that will lead to a real life price to be paid by the person known as warf. The universe is a bitch that way.

Can you honestly say anyone here has ever been denied a job or a promotion or even gotten the stink eye because some goober here said something negative about them on Facebook or any other social networking site? And then you end your post with what could be interpreted by some people as a threat against Warf. What has come out of all of this OMG he's threatening me bullshit anyway that has had any effect on ending this so called war of the sites? Not a dmn thing. If anything there's too many people using it as an excuse to keep it going but almost no one sees that. You're never going to get everyone involved to hold hands and sing Cumbia but it could go back to the Army of old where half the people can't stand the other half and try to piss each other off as much as possible but share the beliefs that Dave's the man and Sam's a chedhead.

[Anonymous]

Eh, that only gets you so far. Guilt by association isn't fair, but this is different.

WARF has pulled some absolutely despicable shit over the last few months. The worst kind of personal douchebaggery that just should not be condoned by anyone, anywhere.

As long as he continues to have a position of authority over there, you're going to get some criticism. Justified, in my view. The whole "he doesn't speak for us" thing really loses its legitimacy when your wagon continues to be hitched to his star.

Fair enough, but what are we going to do? Fire him there for what he does here? Somehow I don't think that's right & I'm pretty sure it would solve absolutely nothing.

The most we can do is tell him to stop & he has agreed to do so. For how long, I don't know. I have no idea. I hope that, if not forever, at least for a long, long time. Hope springs eternal.

If you're saying that guilt by association is inevitable, well, I'm not going to ruin my e-friendship with the guy & throw him under the bus just to get the respect of people I don't even care about. This is not directed at you, by the way.

And I can't speak for Donnie, but I'll bet he feels the same way. I mean, the guy wasn't even joining on either side & he even thanked Angel for a ribbing before it all went vertically downhill again. Then the fact that hew was dragged in pissed me off & I posted.

Bottom line is, this is like blaming the whole ghetto for the actions of one gangsta. One Eminem looking gangsta.

Cheers!

[Dr. Love]

Wow you didn't hold back on going right to the really tough questions...

I think only Warf is qualified to discuss his motivations... many of us can make educated guesses and observations but only he knows what goes through that interesting mind of his.

As far as site strategies and rules go... there's several of us who have had past experience running a VH/Roth fan board. I've worked on several. The rules at Fans are very similar to the rules here... that was done based on the type of community it's derived from. There was no meeting of any brain trust over there plotting activity here, rules there, or whatever to make one place more desirable over the other.

The current "personalities" of each of these sites reflect the members posting here or there or both.

As far as rules of engagement... be it staff or regular members. Neither of these sites dictate how people must behave on the internet at any other site. We can only attempt to manage our own boards. I have asked more times than I can count for certain individuals to knock off shenanigans here... But I can't control them any more than anyone else. It's on them.

Well, if you asked several times, I guess there's nothing else you can do to introduce any sort of accountability!

Everyone, listen up! They asked for this not to happen but it did anyway. Their hands are tied! We just have to accept it. They did their best!



Probably a good idea not to try to actually assign any sort of consequence to his actions. I mean, just last January the admins of this site attached consequences to his actions and we've had to deal with the aftermath ever since. Who wants that? Better to just be held hostage to his whims, right?

[ZahZoo]

Knock it off with the voice of reason shit ... I've got bets placed on whether this nonsense can make it a full year and I won't have you turds screwing me when I only have 3 and a half months to go

Despite any brave and sincere efforts on my part... it's probably safe to go ahead and double down on that bet!!

[ZahZoo]

I like to go straight to what motivates people. In the case of WARF who I happen to think is a funny poster but has crossed more than a few lines here.
As a formal admin of some type on your site would it be too much to ask that he stop trying to recruit here?
It seems fairly obvious his strategy here is to take advantage of any rules differences and take it to to the extreme and then use that fact and aftermath to convince members here they would be better off at rothfans.
It seems to me you would be in a position to affect change there. You can't control what WARF posts but you are able to have some sort of overall rules of engagement for how your site is run. That would include strategies employed for gaining new members. I think this would be a good start. Basically what i am saying is you can't keep returning to the same jokers wildcard every time someone goes off the rails. At some point you are accountable for the staff's actions. The fact we are discussing a site war affirms this. Thanks

Wow you didn't hold back on going right to the really tough questions...

I think only Warf is qualified to discuss his motivations... many of us can make educated guesses and observations but only he knows what goes through that interesting mind of his.

As far as site strategies and rules go... there's several of us who have had past experience running a VH/Roth fan board. I've worked on several. The rules at Fans are very similar to the rules here... that was done based on the type of community it's derived from. There was no meeting of any brain trust over there plotting activity here, rules there, or whatever to make one place more desirable over the other.

The current "personalities" of each of these sites reflect the members posting here or there or both.

As far as rules of engagement... be it staff or regular members. Neither of these sites dictate how people must behave on the internet at any other site. We can only attempt to manage our own boards. I have asked more times than I can count for certain individuals to knock off shenanigans here... But I can't control them any more than anyone else. It's on them.