Album Sales.

[Three_Lock Rock]

RECORD SALES WITH FAGGIT LEE ROTH: 2,355 TO ALL THE FAGGITS OF THE ROTH ARMY!

RECORD SALES WITH MR. 5150 HIMSELF SAMMY HAGAR: 03247239804723980478923478923748923479283479823478 28934789237423984792834792384729384789234792384729 83472938472938479234879238472389472893479238472389 47892374948576384762387462387468234628374627834627 837509707984728351265345 TO THE RED ROCKERS WORLDWIDE!!!!!!!

THREE LOCK ROCK
KICKING ASS AND TAKING NAMES!!

[Guitman777]

Originally posted by Guitman777
There is no way that VH with that guitar style and tone could have been swept under the carpet, rock n roll was ready for a new guitar hero and they would have gotten it with or without DLR. I'm not saying they would have been as popular and i am not saying they would have sold as many albums but they would have had a significant impact on rock n roll and the guitar playing still would have been as innovative. Ed is the one who played his butt off to come up with that stuff.

I'm quoting myself here obviously....F***HowardStern if you read this bit from my earlier post you'll see that i was not implying that VH would have been just as huge without DLR i'm not suggesting that at all. I'm saying that guitar sound and the technique would have still found it's way to the world. I agree with you though that if another singer other than DLR would have been in VH say DuBrow or Pearcy as you have suggested that VH would have been a different band....you are right.....The original VH was the chemistry of the 4 of them no question...I never suggested the chemistry would have been the same, i never suggested that VH would have been the same. I'd definitely be delusional for implying such.

You're also right that there were alot of talented guitarists in LA in the late 70's but EVH was certainly one of the most talented. He was an innovator to the genre of hard rock guitar playing he forever changed the way guitarists played solos, he brought quite a few different new techniques to the table, which is the reason so many guitarists from the 80's tried to rip him off. That kind of talent could not have been held down for very long it would have found another way out.

Having said all this...It's also important to mention that Ted Templeman being the producer also had alot of impact on the early VH sound and had some suggestions on musical direction and song arrangements thats what a producer usually does. Also Don Landee had alot to do with the way Eddie and the band sounded on those early records, he was the man setting up the mics and dialing in the EQ that really helped EVH sound the way he did back then. Of course Ed's core sound already existed in his fingers and in that frankenstrat and his old marshall, Ted Templeman and Don Landee just helped bring out the best in him. Any other quality producer and engineer would have brought out the best in Ed but i have to admit that it wouldn't have been the same.

Perhaps being a musician (guitarist) myself i just have so much admiration for EVH and his innovations and his tone and i just have so much belief in his genius and talent, no matter how flaky this guy is now, that this talent would have still found it's way to the world. But i'm in no way saying it would have been just as huge.

And you are also right that this is all speculation but almost any opinion is, this is just what i believe. I am not devaluating Roth at all it's just that i have more respect and admiration for the talent of EVH. Roth's talents are very different, they're less musical and more focused on performance. He was and is a great performer, and one of the greatest frontmen of all time but not one of the greatest songwriters or singers of all time. Thats the kind of talent that is important to me, but i realize not everyone shares this point of view and thats ok, thats what makes us all different.

And isn't that the point of these boards for different people with differing opinions from different walks of life coming together because of a common interest ( VH ) Or am i in the wrong place, perhaps i should be at the VHLinks so they would all agree with me, but then that would be no fun.

Cheers...

[Guitman777]

Originally posted by Three_Lock Rock
RECORD SALES WITH FAGGIT LEE ROTH: 2,355 TO ALL THE FAGGITS OF THE ROTH ARMY!

RECORD SALES WITH MR. 5150 HIMSELF SAMMY HAGAR: 03247239804723980478923478923748923479283479823478 28934789237423984792834792384729384789234792384729 83472938472938479234879238472389472893479238472389 47892374948576384762387462387468234628374627834627 837509707984728351265345 TO THE RED ROCKERS WORLDWIDE!!!!!!!

THREE LOCK ROCK
KICKING ASS AND TAKING NAMES!!

This right here is what i am trying to avoid, i have no interest in coming in here and provoking anyone. I like Sam and think he is good rock n roll singer but not better than DLR as a frontman, just different. But it still makes no difference to me who is singing for the band, i just want that guitar tone and style back. If they do it with Roth someday all the better.

Cheers!!

[Three_Lock Rock]

Originally posted by Guitman777
This right here is what i am trying to avoid, i have no interest in coming in here and provoking anyone. I like Sam and think he is good rock n roll singer but not better than DLR as a frontman, just different. But it still makes no difference to me who is singing for the band, i just want that guitar tone and style back. If they do it with Roth someday all the better.

Cheers!!

SAM OR THE GRAVE!!!!!!!!

youv got some poentail!

[DavidLeeNatra]

Originally posted by Guitman777
This right here is what i am trying to avoid, i have no interest in coming in here and provoking anyone. I like Sam and think he is good rock n roll singer but not better than DLR as a frontman, just different. But it still makes no difference to me who is singing for the band, i just want that guitar tone and style back. If they do it with Roth someday all the better.

Cheers!!

I take this post to reply...it's not that fucking long...may I quote your hero edward ludowig himself here "me and al are the core of van halen we wrote all the music...but without dave this place would be very empty"...nuff said...

[ppg960]

Both Dave and Eddie are superstars in their own right. Either one could have brought a band from bars to playing stadiums. There is so much Pro-DLR here that many people can't admit he has faults. Just like the other 3 members of this band. From what i've read in the past years, VH I and II were Templeman's albums. He told them what to do and how to do it. The sound, songs, production and all. WACF, FW, and DD were DLR albums. Lots of cover tunes, blues and swing sound. 1984 was EVH when he decided they needed a change of direction. Panama is Dave's song. He wrote it in his car in less than 20 minutes. 1984 is 180 flip from what they had done in the past. It worked, but DLR wasn't crazy about most of it.
Too bad, they were on top of music when that came out. They were untouchable in every way. If they got back together I think they could re-invent the magic again. It's called CHEMISTRY! Something you can't buy.

[bfm]

[QUOTE]Originally posted by Three_Lock Rock
RECORD SALES WITH FAGGIT HAGAR: 2,355 TO ALL THE FAGGITS OF THE HAGAR COMUNITY!

RECORD SALES WITH MR. LEE ROTH HIMSELF : 03247239804723980478923478923748923479283479823478 28934789237423984792834792384729384789234792384729 83472938472938479234879238472389472893479238472389 47892374948576384762387462387468234628374627834627 837509707984728351265345 TO ALL THE DLR FANS

THREE LOCK ROCK
FUCKING ASS AND TAKING FACIALS!! [/QUOTE

Good Call asshole

[Matt White]

EVH will NEVER regain his form without DAVID LEE ROTH...because DAVE is ever much responsible for the "Musical direction" os original VH....

If DAVE had been fronting QUIET RIOT we'd be talking about RANDY RHOADS right now...don't kid yourself....

EVH hit the national spotlight because he had the BEST fucking singer/frontman in SOCAL fronting his band and WRITING the best SONGS....SONGS are what made VAN HALEN the HUGE stars they were BEFORE 1984....ever heard of the US FESTIVAL?!? 1.5 million dollars for an hour...IT SURE WASN'T TO HEAR "ERUPTION" for an hour.....

And did the national media talk about the "technical brilliance of EVH and his revolutionary tone".....FUCK NO


"FUCK THE CONCERT...LET'S GO ACROSS THE STREET AND GET A DRINK...I SAY"

DAVE put VAN HALEN on the national stage slugger...you can't BULLSHIT a dude who was around back in the glory days.....

Once again...thanks for playin'......

[spmusicplyr]

Originally posted by Matt White
Yup....VHCheroneIII ended the longest platinum streak for a Warner Bros act.......

But lets add up some numbers....6+4+3+2+3=18 million for that Spam catalog.....

VAN HALEN I + 1984=20+ million...more than the ENTIRE Spam catalog......

Thats leaving out VAN HALEN II , WACF , FAIR WARNING & DIVER DOWN.........Yeah....DAVE KICKS ASS

oh i know that im just sayin....bantonelli said 1984 outsold all of 86-95 which isnt true..

of course dave kicks ass. if he didnt i wouldnt have signed up for this site...i like parts of the other singers songs too...

vh3 had a couple of good parts in it...if without you were a 3 minute song and not 6 and a half...it would have been more radio friendly...

one i want...the main verses sound pretty good...

and thats about all i like on that album

[spmusicplyr]

i like all music...from any group...not for who's singing but for the overall sound and the meaning they have to me

[bantonelli]

Originally posted by fuckhowardstern
I respect your opinion and the fact that you share it elegantly and with conviction. But to imply that Van Halen would have been just as huge no matter who was singer is nothing more than speculation and conjecture. That implication does in fact devalue the contribution of David Lee Roth to the wide appeal of the band and thus ultimately how influential Eddie Van Halen became.

Don't get me wrong - I love classic Eddie Van Halen - the sound...the technique...the songs - but I tend to think that the success of Van Halen can be measured only by the chemistry of each of the members together as a unit. They have all done a fine job of proving that the sum is not equal to all its parts since 1984.

You would have had an entirely different band if Kevin Du Brow or Stephen Percy had been recruited instead of Dave and there were a LOT of brilliant, innovative guitarists on the LA scene in the mid-70's.
Of course Eddie came up with all those killer riffs, and he was the one that thought of hooking up a marshall stack to a variac device, but the "Musical Direction" of the band has a lot more to do with the chemistry of the unit and the total of what we got when each member of the band (even Mikey - whose background vocals are, to me, a very important part of the signature sound of CVH) brought what they had to the table.

Couldn't have been said more eloquently ! I totally concur.

[fuckhowardstern]

Why thank you! I dig your posts as well!

[Nickdfresh]

Originally posted by Guitman777
I have been browsing this forum for quite some time but never have posted until now. The main reason for this is i am not a Pro Roth Van Halen fan, i am a Van Halen fan more importantly an EVH fan, because i am a fan of his ground breaking guitar work on the original Van Halen albums. To give credit where credit is due....YES! DLR most definitely was PART of the reason the original VH was so successful, but anybody on this board that thinks VH wouldn't have been successful in the beginning without Roth is sadly mistaken.

In 1978 the Guitar God was as important to rock music as it ever had been. Enter Van Halen FEATURING Edward Van Halen, with that Guitar style and sound there is NO WAY! the world of rock music and guitar playing could have ever overlooked VH. Let there be no mistake about this fact, it would not have mattered who was singing for the band. But i stated above credit should be given where credit is due. DLR was then and is now a Showman, an Entertainer and a ROCK STAR. And a DAMN! fine one at that. His contribution to VH and his One of the all time great rock n roll frontmen status is the stuff that legends are made of.

But more importantly so is EVH...by a long shot....The shadow casted by this legendary guitarist is enormous, there is a reason why EVH is consistently cited as a major influence on countless guitarists since his arrival. There is a reason he continues to this day to top the greatest guitarists of all time polls. This same reverence for Roth and any other member of VH does not exist....Only on Pro Roth forums such as this, and the occasional greatest frontmen of rock n roll poll....

PERIOD!

Yes it is a fact the Roth era VH record sales are greater than the Van Hagar era. Yes it is a fact that the Guitar playing of Eddie Van Halen was at it's most potent and virtuosic during this time. NO! it is inaccurate to cite Sammy Hagar as the sole contributing reason that his era with VH is considered more mainstream and POP oriented. Just go back and listen to Diver Down all those covers of classic pop hits was an attempt by the record label, Ted Templeman and DLR to help VH score more serious hits. If VH would have contnued in this direction i can assure you they would have died off alot faster than 1996. Because they would have become a huge joke and a parody of themselves.

The real turning point though in the mass mainstream appeal version of VH came in the form of 1984. Can anyone say JUMP, PANAMA, HOT FOR TEACHER, and I'LL WAIT. All very popular and mainstream tunes, albeit some rocked more than others and more than some future VH hits. Of course there was still more energetic and experimental tunes on 1984 just as there are on 5150, OU812 and so on. Lets also not overlook the huge part DLR played in making those songs the big hits they were, mostly because of the entertaining videos and DLR's image. But the musical direction was charted out by EVH himself, just as it had always been, with the exception of the cover songs on diver down. Ed hated that album more than any other VH record, and so do i....Even more than 3.

What Sammy Hagar allowed VH to achieve was a continuation after DLR jumped ship. Hagar allowed the band to be more versatile with songwriting and to score more hits and platinum records and to keep the band alive another 10 years. But Hagar most definitely was not the reason for VH's increased mainstream appeal, EVH was. I can guarantee that if DLR would have stayed with VH and they would have continued in the ridiculous direction as DLR did in his solo career they would have died off well before 1996, just as DLR's mainstream appeal did.

With all this being said....who really cares which era sold more records. Who cares who is responsible for the mainstream direction. Who cares which frontman is considered the best. Who cares who is at fault for the downfall of the Mighty Van Halen. They all were responsible for the success and failure of VH....PERIOD!

VH did not rock more becuse of DLR, they rocked harder because of the INTENSE! guitar playing of EVH. VH did not go mainstream because of Hagar, it is because of the change in musical direction of EVH. Sammy Hagar simply came into the band at a time when it could have collapsed and helped them carry on when DLR no longer cared. VH 1 and 1984 have continued to sell because of their legendary status. And Hagar allowed those records to continue selling because he helped the band continue. Who knows if VH had disbanded when Roth left if these records would have continued to sell and who really cares.

VH is not about numbers, it is about great rock n roll music, and some of the most innovative guitar playing ever. I for one wish EVH would pickup the original FRANKIE and plug into a MARSHALL again and get that tone back, and use that as the foundation to build their future on. I don't give a CRAP! who is at the mike, i don't care if it sells 500,000 copies or 10 Million. It's all about the music to me, and i don't mind a ballad or two along the way.

When you have a guitar style and sound like EVH had in the early days why in the hell he would ever want to abandon that is beyond me. His sound was every bit as important as was the tapping, and the floyd rose dive bombs. He needs to go back to square one and evolve from there. There was pure magic in the guitar tone of VH 1 and Fair Warning.

If they Decide to reunite with Roth and record a new album it will be huge no doubt, and if they decide to tour with Roth that will be huge as well, and i will be there to buy the CD and see the show. If they do the same with Hagar or another singer ( my suggestion for a new singer would be Jeff Scott Soto) i will be there to do the same, because i love VH.

Ed get that sound back you MORON!

Let the flaming begin, i don't give a crap...the truth is the truth....

Funny how ED's style changed to a more rhythmic style that was pretty bland and unexciting compared to his previous efforts on the first six...

[fuckhowardstern]

Originally posted by Guitman777
.... I'm saying that guitar sound and the technique would have still found it's way to the world.... .

There are thousands of guitar players way more talented and creative than Ed that will never make a dime off of their music (probably of few of them posting on this board). Their music will never see the light of day. Who does and doesn't "make it" in the music business then and now is almost akin to what the numbers of the dice add up to in a crap shoot. Unfortunately, in my opinion, image has a lot to do with it more so today then when Van Halen was playing on the sunset strip. Is Ed a fantastic guitar player? Absolutely. But doesn't he have a debt to pay because, in addition to his talent, he rode on the coat tails of the success of the band as an entity? With the nature of the music business being as it is....while Ed is paying his just debts, shouldn't he make at least some nominal tender for simply being in the right place at the right time with the right face?

Originally posted by Guitman777
You're also right that there were alot of talented guitarists in LA in the late 70's but EVH was certainly one of the most talented......

Well, talent is hard to quantify. technically, I take issue with your description of Ed as "one of the most" talented, but perhaps I am splitting hairs here and I hear what you are saying - we can certainly agree that Ed was / is very talented and that he was certainly no slouch compared to the pool of guitar players in the area at that time.

Originally posted by Guitman777
He was an innovator to the genre of hard rock guitar playing he forever changed the way guitarists played solos, he brought quite a few different new techniques to the table, which is the reason so many guitarists from the 80's tried to rip him off. That kind of talent could not have been held down for very long it would have found another way out.

His sound was innovative. But the sound of heavy metal was already headed in that direction - away from the British sound and towards what I call a "California" sound. To be sure, Ed's sound is the platonic form of this "California" sound and I do believe he punched a big hole in the wall that he and other players eventually made into a double french door. As far as new techniques....I am hard pressed to think of any that were completely original - tapping had been done (Steve Hackett), that volume pot thing had been done (Beck) and whammy bar dives with feedback had been done (Hendrix). Yet Ed made them all his own and added his own flair to them - couple that flair with his Marshall-stack-on-cocaine sound and therein lays the essence of his innovation. Would that talent ultimately have found another way out? I guess we will have to wait until the quantum physicists do more research into the area of parallel existing universes to answer that question with any degree certainty.

As far as “forever changing the way guitarists played solos”, I would like to reserve comment until you to expound on that statement, should you choose to. It seems to me that a lot of songs by guitarists these days don’t even have guitar solos anymore!

Originally posted by Guitman777
....It's also important to mention that Ted Templeman being the producer also had alot of impact on the early VH sound and had some suggestions on musical direction and song arrangements thats what a producer usually does. Also Don Landee had alot to do with the way Eddie and the band sounded on those early records, he was the man setting up the mics and dialing in the EQ that really helped EVH sound the way he did back then [....] Ted Templeman and Don Landee just helped bring out the best in him.......

Perhaps being a musician (guitarist) myself i just have so much admiration for EVH and his innovations and his tone and i just have so much belief in his genius and talent, no matter how flaky this guy is now, that this talent would have still found it's way to the world. But i'm in no way saying it would have been just as huge....

Indeed. Hats off to Templeman and Landee for their work on those early albums. I love Templeman's work on Little Feat's stuff as well (perhaps even more than his work on Van Halen's.....Little Feat - what a frigging great band [I noticed you don't like the "F" word])

Re: admiration, genius and talent - I hear ya'. Listening to classic Van Halen makes me very, very happy as well and Ed will always be one of my favorite guitar players no matter what happens to him as he grows old....kinda like the way I feel about Phil Collins (I am a drummer, in addition to bass and guitar): Phil can sing all the top 40 schlock and over-produced motown covers he wants to in his old age - the drumming he did with Genesis will never be overshadowed by what he has become.

Originally posted by Guitman777
And you are also right that this is all speculation but almost any opinion is, this is just what i believe....

And isn't that the point of these boards for different people with differing opinions from different walks of life coming together because of a common interest ( VH ) Or am i in the wrong place, perhaps i should be at the VHLinks so they would all agree with me, but then that would be no fun....

Everything I say is just as speculative as what everybody else says - we should have no pretenses that our opinions are more valid than anyone else's (even if the tone of the way I express mine might imply that i feel otherwise).

Re: "isn't that the point....." Yes. You nail it on the head with that assessment and I realize that what you say there might not be directed to my response. There are posters here, as there are on every board it seems, that get a rise out of controversy and using insulting tones and words with those having different opinions (I am admittedly one of them but i try to be respectful unless someone crosses the line with me). But most of them here are not true assholes - they are just flexing their brains. Like Matt White - don't take what he says personally (even if he responds to this by saying something like "fuck him and fuck you FHS you're both pusses) - check out some of his other posts - he really is funny as hell - you just caught the brunt end of it on this one is all. I personally hope you keep posting here - although when my vacation is over - I will not have time to respond in as much length as this (collective sigh of relief from the membership at large). TC, dude.

[Jimmy Jingles]

[QUOTE]Originally posted by ppg960

Originally posted by Jimmy Jingles
.



What is this, the 50's? "Yeah, right back at you daddy-o! You jughead you! Why don't you make like a tree and leave...huh, huh, huh!"

You talk like a person with a Paper Arshole.
Shut your Pie Hole Arnie! Out of all the posts I've read that are yours, you only critisise people. It shows how narrow minded you really are.

I refuse to talk with you any further until you can properly use the Quote function.


Ass.