New album soon

[Terry]

I still remember hearing Al say that while MTV simultaneously aired an unflattering image of Dave. Funny how in the reunion blues chapter of CFTH, Dave said it was Al pushing him to get the crowds torqued up as they arrived at the awards. There's no way Al could believe his own shit about ripping off the fans. He knew, sitting in that fucking limo right beside him, was the man who could set it all right. I'll bet Alex's collapse that night in the press tent was 100% stress related. He knew damn well that he and Ed were playing with fire and the burn came quick.

I think Dave just wanted to believe a full-blown reunion was gonna happen. He said as much in his open letter following the VMA blow up, and in his CFTH autobio. He just turned a blind ear and eye to all the warning signs and signals the Van Halens were sending throughout the summer (all that 'baby steps' gibberish - I mean, what 40 year-old man talks about 'baby steps'?) because he took a positive outlook: the Van Halens are gonna see the response the fans give the new tracks, and see the response the VMAs appearance gets, and they're gonna wake the fuck up and realize what SHOULD happen. I'll bet when all the dust settled, half of Dave's mindset was "on some level I should have known this was how it was gonna end up' and the other half was saying 'what the fuck happened to the Ed and Alex Van Halen I used to know?'

[chefcraig]

It was easier (and probably cheaper in terms of the profit split) to get Cherone in there...or so they thought. I think Ed basically wanted to call all the shots openly from the music to the lyrics right down the line, and there's no way Dave was gonna go along with that.

Which, in and of itself, leads to a more defining question: What of the Mitch Malloy deal? At one point, he was a sure thing, until he apparently caught a good wiff of what the VH franchise was up to, suggested they get Roth back, and was instantly dismissed. Next thing ya know, VH is being managed by Ray Daniels, who did wonders with Rush but apparently could not find his own dick if it was located in a box of Cracker Jacks when it came to other groups he "handled". In comes Gary Cherone from Extreme (yup, one of Daniels' managing triumphs) supposedly writing words that the great St. Edward wrote the music toward. The VH III album was released to a worldwide yawn, mainly because it sucked worse than that God-awful Genesis record that came out after Phil Collins left.

And that was the beginning of a very public downward spiral )2004, meth, porn soundtracks, ect.), an adventure that more than likely killed off all but the most ravenous fans.

The cold hard truth is that these days, aside from devotees like us, Van Halen rates somewhere around REO Speedwagon and Huey Lewis & The News to the general public. Despite their accomplishments, if you asked anyone under the age of say 40, who the fuck these 3 bands were, you'd get nothing in return other than a blank stare.

That's reality, folks. If you are old-school, then chances are you just might happen to be old. I don't have a problem with that, yet I do see myself turning into my parents at times. Yet rather than bitching at kids to turn that shit down, I simply crank my own shit even louder, and merely drink more. It's that simple.

[Von Halen]

The cold hard truth is that these days, aside from devotees like us, Van Halen rates somewhere around REO Speedwagon and Huey Lewis & The News to the general public. Despite their accomplishments, if you asked anyone under the age of say 40, who the fuck these 3 bands were, you'd get nothing in return other than a blank stare.

I don't know. My buddies daughter tweeted a pic of herself last week, holding her College acceptance letter (hopefully she won't spend 30 years there like Angel) and she was wearing a VH shirt. A classic VH shirt. I was impressed.

[DLR Bridge]

You know, I could understand the Van Halens not wanting to take (in their minds) a step backward with Dave in 1996 in terms of just going out on a greatest hits tour without releasing a new album first. Because I think for them to do that, regardless of how much the fans may have wanted it, would have been the same thing in their minds as saying that Van Halen was basically a spent creative force only good for nostalgia. What I couldn't get my mind around was why bother doing ANYTHING with Dave AT ALL then.

As Ed once said with a smirk during that dreaded '03 NAMN show appearance upon someone shouting out for him to play Mean Street, "I prefer forward movement". Then why indeed did he allow the VHIII tour to be 90% nostalgia and only 10% new? He must have been one very conflicted fellow. I think he wanted all of the spot light, but hated having to open his mouth. I always thought his guitar magazine interviews were ok, but once he had a camera and microphone shoved in his face, he seemed visibly regretful that he became more of a mouthpiece for the band.

[atomicpnk47]

As Ed once said with a smirk during that dreaded '03 NAMN show appearance upon someone shouting out for him to play Mean Street, "I prefer forward movement". Then why indeed did he allow the VHIII tour to be 90% nostalgia and only 10% new? He must have been one very conflicted fellow. I think he wanted all of the spot light, but hated having to open his mouth. I always thought his guitar magazine interviews were ok, but once he had a camera and microphone shoved in his face, he seemed visibly regretful that he became more of a mouthpiece for the band.

That's why Ed should keep his mouth shut because every time he opens it his foot winds up in it....

[DONNIEP]

That's why Ed should keep his mouth shut because every time he opens it his foot winds up in it....

Or a meth pipe.

[Floridaman1985]

Despite their accomplishments, if you asked anyone under the age of say 40, who the fuck these 3 bands were, you'd get nothing in return other than a blank stare.

Hey now, there are a few of us under 40ers who appreciate DLR and Van Halen! I've tried my best to spread the good word about Van Halen to those around me. You're 99% correct though...

I'm just happy a VH album finally came out during my lifetime. 1984 came out over a year before I was born. I was born 13 days before DLR left.

[Von Halen]

Hey now, there are a few of us under 40ers who appreciate DLR and Van Halen! I've tried my best to spread the good word about Van Halen to those around me. You're 99% correct though...

I'm just happy a VH album finally came out during my lifetime. 1984 came out over a year before I was born. I was born 13 days before DLR left.

Excellent!

Tell us your story. Tell us how you came along after the fact, and are still a DLR/VH fan.

[DlocRoth]

Or a meth pipe.

Or part of his tongue falls out.

[Floridaman1985]

Excellent!

Tell us your story. Tell us how you came along after the fact, and are still a DLR/VH fan.

I got into VH when I was 14 (late 1999). My mom told about Van Halen and about requesting Jump on the radio a few days after giving birth to me. That compelled me to purchase the original "Best of" disk and I became a huge fan. I think I got 1984/VH1 a month or two later.

She bought me "Crazy From the Heat" when I was 15. I couldn't put that damn book down. That really turned me into DLR fan and led me to this site in 2000 or so.

Becoming a VH fan at that time was not the best time to get in the game. The Cherone era was (thankfully) ending and the endless "Roth is back" rumors were about to go into full swing. I guess it could have been worse...could have discovered VH in 1985. Fortunately, the music on the 6 pack kept me interested until he did finally rejoin. I really enjoyed ADKoT and am hoping for more.

[Bob_R]

I believe had Roth said nothing that night and let the band have all the glory along with the microphone, he still would not have been in the band. The brothers just used that as a lame excuse. As for Ed never telling Dave he was back in the band, i guess cutting two new studio tracks shouldn't have been considered anything but a one off? Okay but you would think if they were bringing him in to just do the greatest hits record they would have warned him ahead of time. It would appear they didn't tell him in order to get those new tracks recorded instead of stipluating to him the true terms of the situation. Maybe they were afraid that if they properly communicated their intentions it would spoil or cancel the new recordings. That just smells of manipulation.

I can see how Roth would think he's back in the band.

I understand your points and I agree. We'll never know if Roth acted corrected and not like an ass if he would have been back in the band. I truly believe Ed and Al didn't even know with 100 percent certainly one way or the other, until after the event and they used his actions as their reasoning.

[moose]

I don't know. My buddies daughter tweeted a pic of herself last week, holding her College acceptance letter (hopefully she won't spend 30 years there like Angel) and she was wearing a VH shirt. A classic VH shirt. I was impressed.

I agree with you V,
my son attends university in downtown TO and he is with the young crowd and he always tells me how many kids he sees wearing CVH t's

just the other night I was at a bday party, kid was turning 30, yet he was having a huge discussion about CVH with the young attendees and they ranged in ages from 22-30, and all positive words so yeah there still is hope, Ed just has to let Dave loose to do his stuff and bury the fuckin hatchet with MA and move forward with a full blown reunion
But this may be the last chance the band has

[Terry]

I can see how Roth would think he's back in the band.

I understand your points and I agree. We'll never know if Roth acted corrected and not like an ass if he would have been back in the band. I truly believe Ed and Al didn't even know with 100 percent certainly one way or the other, until after the event and they used his actions as their reasoning.

The thing of it is, the Van Halens were so inept in the way they presented themselves during that whole 1996 debacle, it's almost impossible to think they had some devious master plan that involved:

1) reconnecting with Roth behind Hagar's back, then dumping Hagar when they began recording with Dave

2) keeping Dave in the dark while they toyed around with Mitch Malloy and Gary Cherone

3) deciding to let Roth accompany them to the VMAs while they already had their minds set on Cherone and letting Dave labor under the impression that a reunion was possible just long enough to get BOV1 out to the stores


The brothers struck me more as clueless and reactive during this period and the subsequent media fallout than anything else. Clueless in their perceptions of what fans wanted from Van Halen and how it all ended up playing out.

I think they were sick of dealing with Hagar, thought it would be a good idea to do some stiff with Dave for the greatest hits, then thought maybe that could lead to something beyond that with Dave (realizing all along that Dave is Dave, thus keeping their options open with Malloy & Cherone) and miscalculated what the public response would be once nothing with Dave beyond those two BOV1 tracks happened.

But I'd agree that we'll probably never know exactly when the brothers decided the possibility of doing anything beyond the BOV1 tracks with Dave entered their minds in relation to the VMA appearance. When you look at it, what prompted the announcement that Cherone was in the band? Dave's open letter. Had Roth not went public with his gripes, I doubt we'd have heard about Cherone until well after BOV1 was released (by at least a month or so). Hence the reactive angle.

I think Dave was, as he says, guilty of denial. And Dave still thought he could trust the Van Halens. And even Roth says the Van Halens never categorically told him he was back in for good. Now, were the Van Halens upfront with Roth to the point where they told him they were auditioning other singers prior to the VMA appearance? I doubt it. Because the Van Halens were still hoping, even AFTER the VMA appearance, to make videos for the two new Roth tunes and wanted Dave to participate.

I think the Van Halens also thought, if anything, that THEY were the ones doing Roth a favor by working with him at that point (rather than Roth doing them the favor by singing on the 2 tracks), and if one looks at where Roth was at commercially in 1996 vs. the Van Halens, it's a hard attitude to refute. Not that any of that excuses the Van Halens treating Roth with any disrespect, but I think Roth may not have fully realized that when 1996 rolled around the Van Halens may not quite have been looking at him 100% as a co-founder and equal anymore.

[DLR Bridge]

I think if a college or university ever decided to make an elective psycology course based on the inner workings of the minds of the Van Halens and Roth, they'd be wise to call upon professor Terry to head up the program.

[chuckjitsu]

But I'd agree that we'll probably never know exactly when the brothers decided the possibility of doing anything beyond the BOV1 tracks with Dave entered their minds in relation to the VMA appearance.

Excellent analysis, per usual. The part above is really the only place where I have a different opinion- I don't think they ever seriously considered bringing Dave back permanently. Cherone has stated that he was hired before the VMAs and I don't have any particular reason to believe he wasn't being truthful. I suppose it could be argued that they were feeling things out with Dave before turning to Cherone, but that just doesn't seem right to me. I think Ed's comments about not wanting to move backwards were an accurate representation of his motivations at the time and not just post hoc excuses for his actions.

To me, the ultimate irony is that the Van Halens totally underestimated how strong the sentiment was (outside their bubble that is) for Dave to be back in. In essence, the thing they wanted least is what most everyone else wanted the most! (Except the Hagar fans of course, who were most likely horrified at the thought of Dave rampaging over their era)