Why Van Hagar Pales In Comparison

[MasonL]

The only thing I can remember about the LRHRN album is that their 'live' (apparently much of the album was re-recorded in the studio post-performance...then again, we all know lots of 'live' albums had this same treatment) version of The Who's Won't Get Fooled Again got a decent amount of airplay on the primary local terrestrial rock radio station where I was living at the time [the live album] was initially released, and I remember thinking at the time Van Hagar's version wasn't anything that the world needed to hear. I don't think I've listened to anything else off that album.

I do remember renting the live home video release from the FUCK tour around that same period, watching it once and not being able to get to the end of it because it was boring.

It was right around that point, somewhere between FUCK and Balance, that I finally gave up on Van Halen coming up with the goods while Hagar was in the band. I had given the first three studio albums with Hagar each a fair listen, because I figured even with Dave gone 3/4's of the band SHOULD be able to come up with something on an instrumental level that moved me as much as what the band did on those first 6 classic albums. When I was so huge into the band when Dave was in it, probably 75% of that was due to what Eddie was doing.

The whole band got lazy after Dave left. Ed didn't have anybody to push him anymore. Thus, the reasons why Van Hagar didn't work...it wasn't entirely Sammy's fault. Not to me. Often, people say that they'd be interested in hearing what Dave could have done with the Van Hagar instrumental tracks as recorded. Not me. I'd be interested in some of those instrumental tracks being through a rehearsal/production process with Roth and Ted and refined.

But, yeah, when Balance rolled around, I think I heard the album once from start-to-finish...heard the singles off it once or twice. No longer gave a shit. Van Halen for me had tanked...well, really, they had tanked for me when Dave left. Commercially, they tanked when Cherone joined, but that Sam Halen stuff seems even more of it's time (as opposed to timeless) these days than it did when it was initially released.

CVH resonates more strongly with me as the years go by.

Only test that matters: the test of time.

In summary: What Dave brought to the band extended far beyond his 25% of the song contribution. You can feel it in the tone of the music.

[MasonL]

Sam posted something recently talking about how his new song "Father Time" is his "masterpiece."

Now, my first inkling is to ask: when has the artist himself ever described his own work as a masterpiece? That would seem to defeat the whole idea. It's just like Sam wishing himself a Happy Birthday. I've noticed that as the Van Halen gang distanced themselves more and more from Hagar after 2004, he's promoted his brand to extremist levels. Even posting videos of himself from a far away car filming semi-trucks carrying his Cabo Wabo Margarita mix. At best its narcissistic and at worst it's borderline psychotic behavior. It's like he's trying to compensate for the fact that nobody in the VH camp ever talks about him anymore or acknowledges his mediocre songs ever existed.

I was also pleasantly surprised at the level of leeway the Brothers gave Roth in the later years, given all of the mudslinging throughout the years. Things like letting him pick Kool & The Gang, to the video segments they did, the stage design, ADKOT album cover, Stay Frosty and Honeybaby were Dave's ideas, etc... Ed seemed to at least respect Dave's dedication to the art of the music compared to Hagar's businessman approach.

"With Hagar, it's all about the money." -Eddie. Even he figured it out by the end.

[Terry]

There was some advertising but my recollection is zero promotion from the band, no TV interviews, no radio interviews, Only a single video with a very small budget and most people think a poor choice.

Clearly there was a deliberate decision there to avoid any risk of fighting and just get through the tour(s) without it falling to bits.

In hindsight I think it was was mistake and that they could have stuck Roth out there on the talk shows and Stern and everything without him making a misstep but ADKOT was still a top 10 album in the rock charts at least and the tour is where 95% of the money is these days and they did well on that.

The entire period Roth was back in the band from 2006-2015 [Roth] gave comparatively few interviews than he had before and after that period. It did kind of seem at times that perhaps that was a strategic choice in order to prevent and acrimony between Roth and the rest of the band.

I dunno...I kinda dug what they did with the Cafe Wha? gig in terms of promotion, by letting the music do most of the talking. As you say, though, the tour was where the money was and by 2012 Van Halen didn't really need much by way of promotion to sell out an arena tour.

[Silexxx]

There was some advertising but my recollection is zero promotion from the band, no TV interviews, no radio interviews, Only a single video with a very small budget and most people think a poor choice.

Clearly there was a deliberate decision there to avoid any risk of fighting and just get through the tour(s) without it falling to bits.

In hindsight I think it was was mistake and that they could have stuck Roth out there on the talk shows and Stern and everything without him making a misstep but ADKOT was still a top 10 album in the rock charts at least and the tour is where 95% of the money is these days and they did well on that.

She's The Woman also had a video. Pretty low budget too. Simple live performance videowith ad graphics in the middle of the solo.

[ZahZoo]

I've wondered if the cooperative interaction with Roth and the Van Halens during the 2006-2015 era was more of a situation where the adults chose to behave in front of the kid scenario... or... more likely the kid was the only "adult" in the equation and influenced the adults to stay in line...

[Vinnie Velvet]

I've wondered if the cooperative interaction with Roth and the Van Halens during the 2006-2015 era was more of a situation where the adults chose to behave in front of the kid scenario... or... more likely the kid was the only "adult" in the equation and influenced the adults to stay in line...

Perhaps that was the case.

But I always thought due to the years of the highly publicized breakups and previous reunion attempts I think Dave and Van Halens agreed that they just simply go out and play. Let the music and the shows do the talking. At that point they really didn't need to promote themselves like the early days. They knew that all they had to do was throw out the tour dates and ticket sale times and thats it.

I recall Rolling Stone wanted to do a cover story on them with a new photoshoot in 2008 but VH declined.

Of course they wouldve been asked about all kinds of things that they likely didn't want to address - like Dave's return; Mike's removal and Wolf taking on bass duties; Ed's current state of health etc.

[Terry]

Perhaps that was the case.

But I always thought due to the years of the highly publicized breakups and previous reunion attempts I think Dave and Van Halens agreed that they just simply go out and play. Let the music and the shows do the talking. At that point they really didn't need to promote themselves like the early days. They knew that all they had to do was throw out the tour dates and ticket sale times and thats it.

I recall Rolling Stone wanted to do a cover story on them with a new photoshoot in 2008 but VH declined.

Of course they wouldve been asked about all kinds of things that they likely didn't want to address - like Dave's return; Mike's removal and Wolf taking on bass duties; Ed's current state of health etc.

Plus, the pre-tour press conference answered most of those questions and tour rehearsal footage and the first gigs uploaded via fan shot footage answered any questions over if the band could still get it up.

[ZahZoo]

One noteworthy element that just dawned on me... 2006-2015 era was unique in that it was the first time in the 40 year history of the band where sobriety was predominately the normal mode of operation for the band members rather than a very rare exception. That in and of itself can account for the lack of bullshit behaviors and personality issues that governed those bozos...

[Von Halen]

I don't believe Ed was truly sober until 2012-2015. I don't think Dave has ever been truly sober. Dave just prefers different products for self medication. As socially acceptable as alcohol is, EVH was living proof of exactly how destructive it can be.

[Nickdfresh]

One noteworthy element that just dawned on me... 2006-2015 era was unique in that it was the first time in the 40 year history of the band where sobriety was predominately the normal mode of operation for the band members rather than a very rare exception. That in and of itself can account for the lack of bullshit behaviors and personality issues that governed those bozos...

But perhaps at the price of a dip in creativity and belligerent enthusiasm...

[Nickdfresh]

I don't believe Ed was truly sober until 2012-2015. I don't think Dave has ever been truly sober. Dave just prefers different products for self medication. As socially acceptable as alcohol is, EVH was living proof of exactly how destructive it can be.

I think Dave is a moderate drinker and with the exception of his coke habit, probably imbibed quite a bit less even at the height of CVH circa 1981-85. Noel Monk had his complaints about Roth as a band member and overall person. But he was also the first to say that Dave was business first and was the guy that loved schedules, plans, and structure as opposed to the Bros., Dave's fear of flying notwithstanding. Roth did his share of drugs and booze, but he was also running six miles a day around 83'-85' and cycling everywhere...

[Nickdfresh]

5150 was successful in commercial terms.

As you say, though, a certain amount of that success was inherited. To be fair, Hagar had just come off his biggest solo success with VOA, which had went platinum. Doubtless in 1986, it'd be reasonable to assume a percentage of the million or so people who bought the VOA album would have an interest in checking out Van Halen with Hagar in it. Van Halen were coming off 1984, which was a huge success. When Roth left, it'd be excessive to believe that everybody who had been a fan of the band prior to Hagar was totally 100% adverse to checking out the band without Dave.

I think you're right also that the 5150 sound did have an appeal to people who perhaps weren't as huge on Van Halen when Roth was in it...people who really only became aware of the band when Jump as a single had the massive success that it did,

It was telling that after 5150 each subsequent Van Hagar album sold less than the previous one. That tells me that the longer Hagar stuck around, the less people were interested in the band as the years went by. Contrast that with BOV1, where all it took was a couple new tunes with Roth and the implied promise of a Roth reunion for a greatest hits album to outsell the last studio album Van Halen did with Hagar.

It's been covered here before, but been a long while. Did Dave make any money off 5150? No question at least a part of that album has Dave on it and three songs were allegedly almost complete with demos with Dave singing prior to his departure and Ed burned everything...

I would also add that any Van Halen I debut album featuring Hagar would have been an extension of his Montrose work, maybe a bit superior and selling a bit better. But it would NOT have gone Diamond status without Diamond Dave! Montrose's debut album is just barely Platinum, with a lot of that coming in the decades after release by word-of-mouth of diehard classic rock fans...

[Terry]

I don't believe Ed was truly sober until 2012-2015. I don't think Dave has ever been truly sober. Dave just prefers different products for self medication. As socially acceptable as alcohol is, EVH was living proof of exactly how destructive it can be.

Ed was fucked up on something at the show I saw in 2008.

His playing was solid for the first 6 tunes then slowly went downhill, with plenty of errant notes that jarred the ear. Keeping in mind that the band by Tampa were...what, 50 shows into the tour, playing basically the same set night after night.

By the time his solo spot came late in the show, he was sweating and unsteady on his feet and couldn't play Eruption properly. It was all blown up on the giant video screen for all to see and there was a palpable silence on the part of the audience, to the point where I could literally hear people sitting near me remarking aloud that Eddie looked wasted. I obviously couldn't say with certainty, but Eddie appeared drunk.

It came off like Eddie had a buff and shine stint in rehab in the spring of 2007 but a year on had relapsed.

2012, though, Eddie was spot-on. He played wonderfully. Shouldn't really be a point of compliment that Ed was managing to play all the CVH material flawlessly - wouldn't that be the minimum of expectations one had of him as a fan? - but honestly after what he demonstrated in 2004 and 2008 just him being able in 2012 to get back to that CVH level of performance was cause for celebration.

[silverfish]

I don't think Dave has ever been truly sober.

I agree that Dave always seems like he's on something. Always.
Early on that was probably part of his shtick. As much as I love him it gets/got old real fast.
Could be it's all he knows and it's worked for him all these years but really
"skiddley scoobeyu diddly do boop" just doesn't cut it anymore.
You have fans. Give us something...

[Nitro Express]

Dave is a major weed smoker. What he really got high on was his own bullshit. He’s living in his bubble fantasy like the rest of the has beens in LA. Dave is a nut job. It was entertaining for awhile.