This Fuckin' Kid

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  • Terry
    TOASTMASTER GENERAL
    • Jan 2004
    • 11968

    Originally posted by DLR Bridge
    Eloquently put, Scraps! I always felt it sounded a bit like a ploy or marketing tactic myself. Ted does mention in his book that the thought had crossed his mind, but I can’t recall if the thought went any further than that at the time. One things for sure, he couldn’t over state it enough that had he made that switch, it would have been the biggest mistake of his career.
    Templeman said in his book that he thought it was a mistake for the band to continue to call itself Van Halen after Dave left and that problem he had with the band retaining the name was sort of a deal-breaker to him continuing to produce the band after Dave left.

    I'd imagine a lot of producers in 1977 would have reservations about Roth's vocals. Van Halen were an unknown quantity commercially. It wouldn't have been unreasonable for Templeman to have mused that maybe Hagar - who he had already produced in Montrose - would be a better fit for Van Halen in traditional commercial terms.
    Scramby eggs and bacon.

    Comment

    • Seshmeister
      ROTH ARMY WEBMASTER

      • Oct 2003
      • 35223

      Originally posted by Terry
      Templeman said in his book that he thought it was a mistake for the band to continue to call itself Van Halen after Dave left and that problem he had with the band retaining the name was sort of a deal-breaker to him continuing to produce the band after Dave left.
      Well it would have made our lives so much easier. Just today I wandered into a fucking situation in my house.

      Me: What the fuck is going on? Get that off now!
      Her: Sorry what?

      On the big TV she is streaming 'Love Walks In' on YouTube with a big picture on the screen of Van Halen from WACF.

      Her: It's a best of Van Halen playlist I thought you liked them?

      Comment

      • Seshmeister
        ROTH ARMY WEBMASTER

        • Oct 2003
        • 35223

        Originally posted by DavidLeeNatra
        Wow! I can't believe that all you motherfuckers still carry the torch. Great to see you guys.
        Interesting to see if you will still be brave enough to post here after being destroyed on June 14th...

        Comment

        • Never was
          Foot Soldier
          • May 2012
          • 627

          Singers are about feel and connection to the material. Pure technical ability gets you on singing shows but doesn't make you an artist. A lot of great artists sing but are not technically great singers but just matched to the material perfectly. The lack of any connection to the material is primary reason Sam to me sounds like shit singing Dave's material. Some vocal items like Sam can not reach Dave's low end but mostly even when sang perfectly by Sam simply sounds like shit

          Comment

          • Never was
            Foot Soldier
            • May 2012
            • 627

            Wolf has reached his peak career wise, in relevance, and in hubris. Forward he is not gonna like the journey. I wonder as all plays out how much more bitter tubby will get

            Comment

            • DLR Bridge
              ROCKSTAR

              • Mar 2011
              • 5470

              Originally posted by Never was
              Wolf has reached his peak career wise, in relevance, and in hubris. Forward he is not gonna like the journey. I wonder as all plays out how much more bitter tubby will get
              I think the jury is still out on that one. Sure, many of us in here find his brand of music to be a droll rehash of a deeply forgettable era in the annals of rock known as Nu Metal. This is of course why he’s such a good fit for this Creed tour, which I will be ignoring when it passes through town. But make no mistake, he will be picking up the remaining hangers-on fans of this genre by tours end. If I’ve got anything positive to say about the guy these days, it’s that touring your ass off is the way to go if you want a career in music, and even though he certainly doesn’t need the money, he is no doubt putting in the work to keep his name out there. Credit where credit is due.

              The biggest problem with the furthering of his career is the manner in which he creates music. It is stiff, over processed and without believable life. I can see knocking out demos for songs by playing everything, then presenting your ideas to a band to then put their own imprint on their instrumental parts. That’s how bands work. His whole “I do everything like the way Dave Grohl once did” was a tired act out of the gate. I don’t know that his present followers necessarily agree with that yet, but unless he makes a refreshing change to his process, they’ll soon catch on that he’s simply writing the same three or four songs over and over, get bored and move on.
              Last edited by DLR Bridge; 03-30-2024, 01:42 PM.

              Comment

              • DLR Bridge
                ROCKSTAR

                • Mar 2011
                • 5470

                Originally posted by Never was
                Singers are about feel and connection to the material. Pure technical ability gets you on singing shows but doesn't make you an artist. A lot of great artists sing but are not technically great singers but just matched to the material perfectly. The lack of any connection to the material is primary reason Sam to me sounds like shit singing Dave's material. Some vocal items like Sam can not reach Dave's low end but mostly even when sang perfectly by Sam simply sounds like shit
                People who admire singers based on their abilities are usually unknowingly hoodwinked into thinking they can do it all. They heard Sam hit slightly higher notes and assumed he was an all around better singer, writer and performer. Terrible assumption.

                I was listening to Little Guitars today in the car and it dawned on me that in no way could any other singer do this song any justice. Sam would’ve utterly destroyed it.
                Last edited by DLR Bridge; 03-30-2024, 01:42 PM.

                Comment

                • Terry
                  TOASTMASTER GENERAL
                  • Jan 2004
                  • 11968

                  Hagar had a slightly naturally higher vocal key he sang in than Dave did. They were both basically tenors. Hagar's voice was maybe a half-step higher than Dave's was.

                  I never quite understood how that meant Hagar's voice was therefore better.
                  Scramby eggs and bacon.

                  Comment

                  • Rikk
                    DIAMOND STATUS
                    • Jan 2004
                    • 16518

                    Originally posted by Terry
                    Hagar had a slightly naturally higher vocal key he sang in than Dave did. They were both basically tenors. Hagar's voice was maybe a half-step higher than Dave's was.

                    I never quite understood how that meant Hagar's voice was therefore better.
                    It didn't. In any way.

                    I'm a vocalist with a multi-octave range. My mom also sings...and she always questions me on why I don't do a lot of worn-out vocalist tropes, like:
                    . Showing off skills with vibrato.
                    . Always wanting to find a really high note near the end when I write a song.

                    She doesn't understand why I've cultivated a whiskey rasp in my voice. I've cultivated it because I like how it sounds. I don't like Whitney Houston, Steve Perry-style singers. That kind of singing lacks balls, in my humble opinion. It's like masturbating.

                    Many of my favorite singers did NOT have great technical skill as a vocalist (it's the attitude in their sound):
                    . Iggy Pop
                    . Marc Bolan
                    . Jim Morrison
                    . Ronnie Van Zant
                    . Paul Rodgers (ok, actually, he really is a very talented singer)

                    Maybe my favorite vocalist of all-time is Chris Cornell...but NOT because he had such vocal range...but because of the character in his voice.

                    (Sammy Hagar has a pretty big vocal range...but he's a walking cliché-regurgitator...he uses all these stupid "working class" tropes that sound insincere, like "It's my life, get off my ass, get outta my face." Dude has talent...but he never has anything interesting to say. He's not an artist...he doesn't put in the work.)
                    Roth Army Militia

                    Originally posted by WARF
                    Rikk - The new school of the Roth Army... this dude leads the pack... three words... The Sheep Pen... this dude opened alot of doors for people during this new era... he's the best of the new school.

                    Comment

                    • Rikk
                      DIAMOND STATUS
                      • Jan 2004
                      • 16518

                      Originally posted by DLR Bridge
                      I think the jury is still out on that one. Sure, many of us in here find his brand of music to be a droll rehash of a deeply forgettable era in the annals of rock known as Nu Metal. This is of course why he’s such a good fit for this Creed tour, which I will be ignoring when it passes through town. But make no mistake, he will be picking up the remaining hangers-on fans of this genre by tours end. If I’ve got anything positive to say about the guy these days, it’s that touring your ass off is the way to go if you want a career in music, and even though he certainly doesn’t need the money, he is no doubt putting in the work to keep his name out there. Credit where credit is due.

                      The biggest problem with the furthering of his career is the manner in which he creates music. It is stiff, over processed and without believable life. I can see knocking out demos for songs by playing everything, then presenting your ideas to a band to then put their own imprint on their instrumental parts. That’s how bands work. His whole “I do everything like the way Dave Grohl once did” was a tired act out of the gate. I don’t know that his present followers necessarily agree with that yet, but unless he makes a refreshing change to his process, they’ll soon catch on that he’s simply writing the same three or four songs over and over, get bored and move on.
                      Wolfgang has some talent...but nothing that jumps off the page or says anything new, the way his dad did.

                      Wolfgang's 1st album hit #12.

                      His 2nd album hit #29.

                      He's already lost so much of the Van Halen fan sympathy vote that occurred with his 1st album. Add to that all the fans he's turned off by insulting them repeatedly on his Twitter (X) page...he's not going to keep going UP. He's going to keep going DOWN.
                      Roth Army Militia

                      Originally posted by WARF
                      Rikk - The new school of the Roth Army... this dude leads the pack... three words... The Sheep Pen... this dude opened alot of doors for people during this new era... he's the best of the new school.

                      Comment

                      • DLR Bridge
                        ROCKSTAR

                        • Mar 2011
                        • 5470

                        Totally agree. That’s why I say musically, he needs to switch up and improve. He’s got a cult following who will hang in there. If smaller crowds are all he needs, I’m sure he’ll stick around for a while. I just don’t ever see him putting out something with the success of Jump and moving to the next level.

                        Comment

                        • Nitro Express
                          DIAMOND STATUS
                          • Aug 2004
                          • 32798

                          Wolfgang needs to hire a personal trainer and get his diet under control and get some exercise. This means breaking life long bad habits but it’s as much about the presentation as it is music. I also wonder how good of a manager Wolfie’s uncle really is. Sammy Hagar was successful because he had excellent management. Clearly Wolfgang has a passion and talent for music but he’s going to fade away unless he really wants to get serious about being a top tier entertainer. It’s not just music it’s the whole image you are selling. Wolfgang also has the problem of he’s not charismatic and he’s the frontman. People love charisma and if your personality is boring well they lose interest. I’m not really seeing any rocket sauce in the mix. Wolfgang would have to partner with someone with charisma to make it. His dad had to do that. Van Halen’s just aren’t good front personalities.
                          No! You can't have the keys to the wine cellar!

                          Comment

                          • Nitro Express
                            DIAMOND STATUS
                            • Aug 2004
                            • 32798

                            Originally posted by DLR Bridge
                            Totally agree. That’s why I say musically, he needs to switch up and improve. He’s got a cult following who will hang in there. If smaller crowds are all he needs, I’m sure he’ll stick around for a while. I just don’t ever see him putting out something with the success of Jump and moving to the next level.
                            I’m not even sure if he has a cult following. He’s benefiting from being in the wake of his dad. He get’s big opening gigs because of that and people want to see him out of curiosity. That’s going to fade away and then what?
                            No! You can't have the keys to the wine cellar!

                            Comment

                            • Nitro Express
                              DIAMOND STATUS
                              • Aug 2004
                              • 32798

                              Wolf needs a charismatic partner. Keeping it the Wolf Van Halen show is going to run flat.
                              No! You can't have the keys to the wine cellar!

                              Comment

                              • Nitro Express
                                DIAMOND STATUS
                                • Aug 2004
                                • 32798

                                Originally posted by Never was
                                Wolf has reached his peak career wise, in relevance, and in hubris. Forward he is not gonna like the journey. I wonder as all plays out how much more bitter tubby will get
                                Most likely it’s going to go as you predict. Wolf wants to be another Dave Grohl but Dave has some excitement and charisma to him. It’s very hard to make it in show business and be fat, boring and bland.
                                No! You can't have the keys to the wine cellar!

                                Comment

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