This Fuckin' Kid

[Nitro Express]

I had to get gas in Kurt Cobain’s hometown once. What a soggy shit hole. No wonder he wrote such depressing shit.

[Seshmeister]

Lucky you not to be born in a soggy shit hole...

[Terry]

I don’t think Yoko broke up the Beatles. I do however think she used power, influence, connections and whatever to malign Julian’s career. There’s an interview with him from about 15 years ago (I’ll have to find it) where he discusses being told by agents and people in the music industry what shenanigans were going on order to place more emphasis on Sean’s budding career while ostensibly, burying Julian’s.

Yeah, I've heard Julian say that stuff re: Yoko underhandedly undermining his music career.

The thing of it is, the time period he was referring to was the late-1990's, when Julian was trying to restart his music career with a new album release after a nearly ten-year hiatus from making records. Around that same time, Sean Lennon was putting out his first solo album. However, Julian Lennon's first solo album put out in 1984 was easily his most commercially successful. His next two subsequent solo albums put out in the 1980's got plenty of industry push but didn't sell nearly as well, and this was a decade before Sean Lennon was even putting out his first record. Also, bearing in mind that by the time Julian Lennon put out his first album Yoko Ono's power, influence and music biz connections were basically restricted to her managing of John Lennon's estate; Yoko was able to finagle a record contract with Geffen for the last Lennon/Ono album made while Lennon was still alive. After Lennon died and the Geffen contract ran its course, nobody in the industry was rushing up to sign Ono as a solo artist, much less crater Julian's career on her say-so.

It's perhaps easier for Julian Lennon to give credence to the idea of Yoko contributing to holding Julian's career back than it is to have a perspective that he made one solo album - his first - that was his most successful commercially (and perhaps a bit more of THAT success had to do with public sympathy for his father's death than he may want to reckon with) and after that less and less people had an interest in his music. I mean, if the demand for Julian's music were strong enough, nothing Yoko Ono would do behind the scenes was going to counter any record company's desire to make money.

Which, I mean, I don't have any ill-will toward Julian in terms of how he has presented himself publicly. He seems like a decent enough person, and fairly humble as far as nepo kids can be re: Julian has in interviews said he is well aware a certain degree of interest in his career from the start had to do with him being "the son of"...

[DLR Bridge]

That all seems extremely plausible, and perhaps his work didn’t get stronger after the first album. He was still a son of John’s and she had enormous wealth. It’s sad that the thought hadn’t entered her mind to perhaps help them both.

[Terry]

The flip side of the coin being that whatever influence Yoko Ono had within music industry circles circa late 1990's wasn't enough to get Sean Lennon's solo career off the ground in terms of selling records.

It was always a bit telling that it wasn't until nearly the end of the sessions for what ended up being released as Double Fantasy that John Lennon and Yoko Ono didn't have a record contract and as far as all of the major labels were concerned in the summer of 1980 none of them were particularly anxious to release a John Lennon solo album where Yoko was singing half the songs. It took a then-newer record label, Geffen, to sign up the Lennons for the Double Fantasy album. Major label executives were willing to be polite to Yoko while John was alive as a way of hedging their bets should The Beatles reform and record, but nobody in the industry had expectations that Double Fantasy was going to sell a lot of albums when it was first released. It wasn't until after Lennon was shot that the album started selling strongly.

[DLR Bridge]

And to close out this aside, Sean Lennon has a horrible singing voice and I wouldn’t know one of his songs if it tripped and fell in my ears. Guess it wasn’t largely in the cards for neither of them boys, but there are some listenable Julian tunes.

[FORD]

And to close out this aside, Sean Lennon has a horrible singing voice and I wouldn’t know one of his songs if it tripped and fell in my ears. Guess it wasn’t largely in the cards for neither of them boys, but there are some listenable Julian tunes.

At least Julian inherited his father's voice... if not his songwriting abilities. Though I still think it's hilarious that he tried to sound like Bowie on his third album, so people would stop comparing him to his dad. And that was pretty much the end of his career....

[Terry]

And to close out this aside, Sean Lennon has a horrible singing voice and I wouldn’t know one of his songs if it tripped and fell in my ears. Guess it wasn’t largely in the cards for neither of them boys, but there are some listenable Julian tunes.

Close out, schmose out: this is my site and I talk about what I want where I want and when I want...too fucking bad for Wolfgang Van Halen's thread if it doesn't like it. ; )

[DLR Bridge]

Well, back to “this fuckin’ kid” for a minute, if I may. Does anybody else find this guitar design to be as unappealing as I do? I mean, it just looks like a Gibson ES-330 and a Fender Wolfgang had a strange looking baby. Perhaps those two guitars shouldn’t have mated? I dunno. It just looks clunky, and if it looks big on him, it would just about dwarf a more slender human frame.

[Nickdfresh]

I like it but it's trying too hard to be a 'Fendson'...

[ZahZoo]

Close out, schmose out: this is my site and I talk about what I want where I want and when I want...too fucking bad for Wolfgang Van Halen's thread if it doesn't like it. ; )

Now that's the old Roth Army spirit™!!

Carry on... with enthusiasm!

[Rikk]

And to close out this aside, Sean Lennon has a horrible singing voice and I wouldn’t know one of his songs if it tripped and fell in my ears. Guess it wasn’t largely in the cards for neither of them boys, but there are some listenable Julian tunes.

FUCK THIS!! Just because you wrote this, I'm going to make the longest Yoko portion of this thread than we've seen yet!! ...

The flip side of the coin being that whatever influence Yoko Ono had within music industry circles circa late 1990's wasn't enough to get Sean Lennon's solo career off the ground in terms of selling records.

It was always a bit telling that it wasn't until nearly the end of the sessions for what ended up being released as Double Fantasy that John Lennon and Yoko Ono didn't have a record contract and as far as all of the major labels were concerned in the summer of 1980 none of them were particularly anxious to release a John Lennon solo album where Yoko was singing half the songs. It took a then-newer record label, Geffen, to sign up the Lennons for the Double Fantasy album. Major label executives were willing to be polite to Yoko while John was alive as a way of hedging their bets should The Beatles reform and record, but nobody in the industry had expectations that Double Fantasy was going to sell a lot of albums when it was first released. It wasn't until after Lennon was shot that the album started selling strongly.

This is partly correct and partly misleading.

Yes, there was not huge record company interest in an album of half-John/half-Yoko. They deliberately made the album with their own money...they weren't actively seeking a record contract the whole time they were recording (partly to keep a lid on the proceedings, in terms of press). Record companies were going kinda apeshit to sign John himself. Geffen made the smart choice by spending a LOT of his interview with the Lennons talking about Yoko. BUT...even after they were signed, Geffen did want the first side of the record to be John and the second side of the record to be Yoko, which John refused.

Also, there's this sort of urban myth that DOUBLE FANTASY was doing badly until John died. It's simply not true.

Sure, the album's sales EXPLODED after John was murdered. But the album was doing quite well before he was shot. (JUST LIKE) STARTING OVER had hit the Top 10 by the end of November, hitting #7 two days before his death. (I like STARTING OVER, but it's nowhere near the best song on the album...I'm sure part of it was people were just excited that John was back after five years away.)

Also, the album went Gold before he died (it was released 21 days before his murder).

DOUBLE FANTASY wasn't on track to become the biggest album of his career...and it very probably wouldn't have won a Grammy had he not died (not that I give a shit about Grammys...I think they're worthless).

But I think it's safe to say the album would have gotten another sales boost once Lennon began the tour he was planning. And this tour would have been awesome. He had a killer band, for one...and he was planning on a really cool setlist...including planning a solo version of I WANT TO HOLD YOUR HAND (which he had never played solo...hell, he'd done very few solo shows as it is)...and other Beatles songs.

I love DOUBLE FANTASY. It's not one of my very favorite favorite Lennon solo albums (I'd put MIND GAMES at #1 for me...IMAGINE at #2)...but it's good.

And unlike the popular opinion, a few of the Yoko tracks on DOUBLE FANTASY are among my favorites on the album, including HARD TIMES ARE OVER, EVERY MAN HAS A WOMAN WHO LOVES HIM, YES I'M YOUR ANGEL and KISS KISS KISS. In fact, HARD TIMES ARE OVER is among my very favorite tracks on it. HARD TIMES ARE OVER is (besides BEAUTIFUL BOY and WATCHING THE WHEELS) the saddest song on the album. It's a really strong gospel-rock track, with Lennon doing really cool backing vocal parts.

I would also say that MILK & HONEY (the follow-up to DOUBLE FANTASY that features six more Lennon tracks he was saving for the follow-up LP, none of them polished but therefore a little rawer and more rocking than the DOUBLE FANTASY stuff) gives DOUBLE FANTASY a run for its money. I would even argue that NOBODY TOLD ME (from MILK & HONEY) is the strongest song that Lennon recorded in 1980, better than anything on DOUBLE FANTASY (except WATCHING THE WHEELS).

A lot of Beatles fans hate Yoko. I don't. I think she could occasionally be a manipulative asshole. But I think she truly loved John, I think he became truly happy for the first time when he was with her. And, I think she influenced Lennon to have a drive in the 1970s that was sometimes missing from the solo work of his ex-colleagues.

Some Beatles fans also don't love the three reunion tracks The Beatles released in 1995, 1996 & 2023 (FREE AS A BIRD, REAL LOVE and NOW & THEN). I personally love these tracks. When I first heard NOW & THEN, I wasn't blown away. Some months later, I love it. I think it's the strongest of the three (it sounds most like a real band playing together & inspired).

And if it weren't for Yoko, we wouldn't have these three songs.

Anyway, I like Yoko a lot more than I like fucking Courtney Love (who is a disgusting, narcissistic snake)...or Valerie Bertinelli...

[DLR Bridge]

I think some of my brothers here need to step outside and get some sunlight! Just don’t look at it between 2 and 4.

I only said “close out” because I brought up the the Julian Lennon portion, which I believed to be straying a Bridge (pun intended) too far from the topic.

BUT BY ALL MEANS, let the discussion continue!! I personally think Yoko should have stuck more to her art. It was ahead of its time. There’s never been a single sound she’s ever made that I would ever subject myself to on purpose.

I like the raw acoustic Real Love vs the Anthology version. I hate that Real Love and Free As A Bird were produced by Jeff “I’ll make your snare souls like a metal garbage can lid” Lynn while George Martin was still around.

[Nickdfresh]

John Lennon beat his first wife.....








...Not ONE coldcocking of Yoko!

[Rikk]

John Lennon beat his first wife.....

...Not ONE coldcocking of Yoko!