New Michael Anthony pic with "Van Halen"

[Seshmeister]

Takes 3 to tango?

It takes 3 to Spit Roast™®

[twonabomber]

It's probably why Vai left even though Skyscraper was musically more his ideas. Well people didn't care for that style from Dave.

Vai had a solo spot on the Skyscraper tour that he called Sunspots:

While touring with Roth, Vai worked up some stunning solo turns, such as “Sunspots,” which (rock critic/writer) Matt Resnicoff called “six gripping minutes where [Vai] sailed over a spacey groove, eventually laying the instrument on its back and continuing to play as he sprawled on his stomach behind it and pushed across the stage, finally slumping over it, drained, in a corner as the last strangled notes echoed into the hall. It was incredible.”

At some point during the tour Dave pulled the solo from the set. Vai supposedly got fed up and left, releasing Passion and Warfare next.

Sheehan allegedly left because of the use of synth bass on Skyscraper. That, and that Vai, Dave, and Tuggle "mashed the songs in the computer," as Vai put it. Some of Skyscraper was done on early Macs.

I think Dave thought he was Van Halen. I think Dave thought it would be easy to go from a 3 to 5 minute video, to a movie. I think Dave thought he could slap any band together, and maintain the same success he had in VH. I think Ed and the rest of the guys were blindsided by this. I think Dave found out fairly quickly, he was wrong. I think Dave has regretted it ever since. But I don't think Dave has regretted it enough to change his ways. I think Dave is as hard to get along with, as he was way back in the early 70's, when these guys tried their hardest not to ever let him in the band. That's my opinion.

I have always said that Dave was campaigning to get back into Van Halen as soon as the day after he left. Even though he'd slam the brothers in interviews there always seemed to be some feeling that he knew he fucked up.

[Seshmeister]

Vai leaving DLR to go to Whitesnake was like a sports transfer at the time.

He was just moving to a bigger team for more money. The deal I remember as was publicised at the time was that Whitesnake(Coverdale) offered him $1 million plus a solo album.

It raised Vai's profile a lot and allowed him to do what he wanted for the rest of his career. It's really difficult to argue with that.

The Whitesnake album they produced was incredibly forgettable and mediocre but the tour would have made everyone money just getting in under the wire.

[twonabomber]

Not only that but I'm pretty sure Vai asked for complete control over the guitar parts and it wasn't too hard to grant him that considering Vandenberg had hurt his hand doing isometric exercises and couldn't play for a while anyways.

[DONNIEP]

Vai leaving DLR to go to Whitesnake was like a sports transfer at the time.

He was just moving to a bigger team for more money. The deal I remember as was publicised at the time was that Whitesnake(Coverdale) offered him $1 million plus a solo album.

It raised Vai's profile a lot and allowed him to do what he wanted for the rest of his career. It's really difficult to argue with that.

The Whitesnake album they produced was incredibly forgettable and mediocre but the tour would have made everyone money just getting in under the wire.

I have no recollection of that record. So I suppose it was forgettable. Then again, I don't know most of the music you people talk about.

[Terry]

If the '84 show is the only real VH show you ever saw, I can see why someone would think it was the greatest thing ever. As far as the massiveness of the stage show, it was. However, compared to the other tours, the flow of the show sucked fucking ass. It had become the David Lee Roth costume change tour. Now, watching bootlegs of these shows, you don't really get that vibe. But after experiencing the previous shows, it was kind of a let down to have Dave fucking around so much, constantly running off stage to change outfits. I don't blame the rest of the band, if they were sick of Dave trying to make it all about him. You see how far that went with the EEAS band, and exactly how long that lasted too.

Look at the continuity of the members of Dave's bands, compared to VH up until the first time Clichegar left. Hell, look at the amount of people Dave has not only had as band members, but employees or "friends" in general, over the years. Name some people that ever had anything to do with Dave, that still has anything to do with him, today. The Van Halen's? At this point, that seems to be in question, yet again. John 5? Yeah, but he only has to deal with him in small doses. Vai and Sheehan? They have nothing to do with the guy, other than this failed EEAS anniversary. Why is it, this guy goes through people, like most people go through socks? Because he can? Really? Can he?

Sit back and run through all the names of people ever associated with this guy. You'll be shocked at how many carcasses he's left in his wake.

Yeah, sadly the 1984 tour was (due to my own age relative to when CVH was active) the only tour I got to see CVH on. I say sadly because even just from listening to bootlegs of other tours I can say that the 1984 wasn't exactly CVH at their most effective live. In terms of the massiveness of the stage show, the 1984 WAS probably one of the best stage productions I saw during the peak of my concert-going years (which was basically 1983 to 1986, in terms of seeing 1/2 dozen to a dozen shows a year). Just watch the Montreal 1984 bootleg from start-to-finish: it's a few songs, then a drum solo, then a few songs, then a bass solo, a few songs, then a Dave samurai dance routine, a few songs, then a LONG segment of Dave rapping with audience (as opposed to a half dozen other shorter Dave raps between the other songs in the set), a few more songs then a 15 minute guitar solo then a couple more songs and they're done. Put it this way: in 1984 Van Halen was by far my favorite band, but even back then I thought the RJD Last In Line Tour and the Maiden Powerslave tour shows I saw were quite a bit better: just as good as Van Halen in terms of the stage production and far less instrumental solo/rapping with the audience bullshit.

[Terry]

No, that's all true. But all I was talking about is the split from Van Halen. I said he used Ed's alleged slackness as an excuse to jump ship. The thing is, from every one of those guys' points of view at the time - it was the other guy's fault. Then Sam comes song and has the same experience with a too drunk to record Ed. So there's some truth in there.

Now, was there such a sense of urgency to get something else put out immediately after they had wrapped up the '84 tour. Not really. Did Dave think so? Maybe. But more than likely he looked at the whole thing as the perfect opportunity and time to split and continue his reign or whatever you wanna call it. Plus he was probably convinced the movie would be a hit since the Van Halen videos and his CFTH videos were all hits. But if you read the script, holy shit is it stupid.

Anyway, if it really was all Dave then I don't blame the band for talking all the shit they wanted to about him. Bottom line is he quit - regardless of the reasons.

I think it's like Von, 78/84, Va Beach, Sesh and twona said.

By the time 1984 rolled around, the rest of Van Halen were just sick of Dave and Dave was just tired of dealing with them.

If you read and watch interviews Dave and Ed gave as the band became more and more successful, a lot of the remarks each gave about the other were sort of diplomatically complimentary while at times barely masking a thinly concealed contempt. The whole making of the 1984 album was a disjointed experience in terms of how the band was interacting. And now you read in Van Halen Rising how while the Van Halens had a grudging respect for Roth's abilities as an entertainer and performer, they had nowhere near that level of respect for Roth's abilities as a singer from the beginning. And it wouldn't be a shot in the dark to suggest that by the time 1984 rolled around, Ed was plain tired of being told where the band had to record, what songs to play (a la Diver Down's multiple cover tunes), what type of music to play ("hey, man, nobody wants to hear you play keyboards"), when to tour and how long, when and what type of music videos to do, and on and on. And by the time 1984 rolled around Ed had won every music magazine poll in the world for top rock guitarist and had doubtless read more than a few critiques of the band which flatly stated that Roth was a goofball clown showoff and him fronting the band would always relegate Van Halen to little more than a party rock band with a great guitarist.

And I'll bet by the time 1984 and 1985 rolled around, Roth was getting tired of dealing with the Van Halens and feeling like he was the only one pulling the load in terms of designing the stage sets, designing the wardrobe, designing the tour programs, designing the t-shirts, choreographing Mike Anthony's bass solo, giving the bulk of the interviews to non-guitar mag outlets all the while having to play with these guys who he doesn't even get along with and never did. Once the CFTH vids started getting heavy rotation and he was at the peak of his own personal celebrity with a potential movie deal in hand, probably the thought of having to continue dealing with the rest of Van Halen and all the tension that entailed was less than appealing. Maybe all of that could have been surmounted if the 5150 rehearsals were heralding promising new music, but even the musical direction was no longer satisfying to Roth at that point.

Roth bailed in 1985. He quit. No doubt about that.

I mean, back in 1985 it felt like a shame the band was breaking up because it felt like there was still plenty of good music left to come. The reality, looking back now, is perhaps a bit different in that it feels like the band were lucky to have lasted as long as they did. They had 6 productive years together from the release of their first album, and that life span is pretty much what a lot of rock bands have in terms of the definitive lineup(s) producing really exceptional music that defines the best of a band's career, give or take a few years.

[ZahZoo]

If the '84 show is the only real VH show you ever saw, I can see why someone would think it was the greatest thing ever.

78-83 was the best of the best for Van Halen live shows... I'd put the 81 Fair Warning Tour tops with the Hide your Sheep a strong number 2!!

[vaijuju]

Not only that but I'm pretty sure Vai asked for complete control over the guitar parts and it wasn't too hard to grant him that considering Vandenberg had hurt his hand doing isometric exercises and couldn't play for a while anyways.

Yes and more

I love slip of the tongue" but it was like listen Vai stuffs solo on a Whitesnake record ! it doesn' work! Vai didn't play blues !

[vaijuju]

[Seshmeister]

That show was broadcast live on BBC Radio 1 back when that really meant something.

I got to the pub afterwards and my non rock fan pals were all raving about some new amazing guitarist they had just heard on the radio.

[twonabomber]

Yes and more

I love slip of the tongue" but it was like listen Vai stuffs solo on a Whitesnake record ! it doesn' work! Vai didn't play blues !

There's some good stuff on there. And even though The Deeper The Love is a ballad the solo is good.

I like Vai's tone around that time. His tone on Sex and Religion sounds so thin and fragile to me.

[Seshmeister]

I think it's like Von, 78/84, Va Beach, Sesh and twona said.

I mean, back in 1985 it felt like a shame the band was breaking up because it felt like there was still plenty of good music left to come. The reality, looking back now, is perhaps a bit different in that it feels like the band were lucky to have lasted as long as they did. They had 6 productive years together from the release of their first album, and that life span is pretty much what a lot of rock bands have in terms of the definitive lineup(s) producing really exceptional music that defines the best of a band's career, give or take a few years.

The Beatles only had 6 years as well but the crucial difference is that they didn't replace John Lennon with Morris Albert, keep the same name and spend the 1970s churning out cheesy drivel.

[Seshmeister]

There's some good stuff on there. And even though The Deeper The Love is a ballad the solo is good.

Have you noticed that all the Whitesnake songs around that time happened at night?

[Von Halen]

The Beatles only had 6 years as well but the crucial difference is that they didn't replace John Lennon with Morris Albert, keep the same name and spend the 1970s churning out cheesy drivel.

The Beatles spent all 6 years churning out cheesy drivel!