'Cruel and unusual'

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  • BigBadBrian
    TOASTMASTER GENERAL
    • Jan 2004
    • 10625

    'Cruel and unusual'

    'Cruel and unusual'
    Thomas Sowell


    March 22, 2005


    If the tragic case of Terri Schiavo shows nothing else, it shows how easily "the right to die" can become the right to kill. It is hard to believe that anyone, regardless of their position on euthanasia, would have chosen the agony of starvation and dehydration as the way to end someone's life.

    A New York Times headline on March 20th tried to assure us: "Experts Say Ending Feeding Can Lead to a Gentle Death" but you can find experts to say anything. In a December 2, 2002 story in the same New York Times, people starving in India were reported as dying, "often clutching pained stomachs."

    No murderer would be allowed to be killed this way, which would almost certainly be declared "cruel and unusual punishment," in violation of the Constitution, by virtually any court.

    Terri Schiavo's only crime is that she has become an inconvenience -- and is caught in the merciless machinery of the law. Those who think law is the answer to our problems need to face the reality that law is a crude and blunt instrument.

    Make no mistake about it, Terri Schiavo is being killed. She is not being "allowed to die."

    She is not like someone whose breathing, blood circulation, kidney function, or other vital work of the body is being performed by machines. What she is getting by machine is what all of us get otherwise every day -- food and water. Depriving any of us of food and water would kill us just as surely, and just as agonizingly, as it is killing Terri Schiavo.

    Would I want to be kept alive in Terri Schiavo's condition? No. Would I want to be killed so slowly and painfully? No. Would anyone? I doubt it.

    Every member of Terri Schiavo's family wants her kept alive -- except the one person who has a vested interest in her death, her husband. Her death will allow him to marry the woman he has been living with, and having children by, for years.

    Legally, he is Terri's guardian and that legal technicality is all that gives him the right to starve her to death. Courts cannot remove guardians without serious reasons. But neither should they refuse to remove guardians with a clear conflict of interest.

    There are no good solutions to this wrenching situation. It is the tragedy of the human condition in its most stark form.

    The extraordinary session of Congress, calling members back from around the country, with the President flying back from his home in Texas in order to be ready to sign legislation dealing with Terri Schiavo, are things that do us credit as a nation.

    Even if critics who claim that this is being done for political or ideological reasons are partially or even wholly correct, they still miss the point. It is the public's sense of concern -- in some cases, outrage -- that is reflected by their elected representatives.

    What can Congress do -- and what effect will it have? We do not know and Congress does not know. Those who are pushing for legislation to save Terri Schiavo are obviously trying to avoid setting a precedent or upsetting the Constitutional balance.

    It is an old truism that hard cases make bad law. No one wants all such cases to end up in either Congress or the federal courts. But neither do decent people want an innocent woman killed because she was inconvenient and a court refused to recognize the conflict of interests in her legal guardian.

    The fervor of those who want to save Terri Schiavo's life is understandable and should be respected, even by those who disagree. What is harder to understand is the fervor and even venom of those liberals who have gone ballistic -- ostensibly over state's rights, over the Constitutional separation of powers, and even over the sanctity of family decisions.

    These are not things that liberals have any track record of caring about. Is what really bothers them the idea of the sanctity of life and what that implies for their abortion issue? Or do they hate any challenge to the supremacy of judges -- on which the whole liberal agenda depends -- a supremacy that the Constitution never gave the judiciary?

    If nothing else comes out of all this, there needs to be a national discussion of some humane way to end life in those cases when it has to be ended -- and this may not be one of those cases.
    “If bullshit was currency, Joe Biden would be a billionaire.” - George W. Bush
  • BigBadBrian
    TOASTMASTER GENERAL
    • Jan 2004
    • 10625

    #2
    If you starved your dog to death, you would be locked up. There needs to be a better way to end this woman's life if that's the way this Judge/god/executioner has determined it.
    “If bullshit was currency, Joe Biden would be a billionaire.” - George W. Bush

    Comment

    • Nickdfresh
      SUPER MODERATOR

      • Oct 2004
      • 49205

      #3
      Originally posted by BigBadBrian
      If you starved your dog to death, you would be locked up. There needs to be a better way to end this woman's life if that's the way this Judge/god/executioner has determined it.
      Why don't run over her with a bulldozer you tool?

      Comment

      • kentuckyklira
        Veteran
        • Sep 2004
        • 1775

        #4
        How many kids in the third world could be kept from starving with the money spent to keep that vegetable alive?
        http://images.zeit.de/gesellschaft/z...ie-540x304.jpg

        Comment

        • Nickdfresh
          SUPER MODERATOR

          • Oct 2004
          • 49205

          #5
          Originally posted by BigBadBrian
          If you starved your dog to death, you would be locked up. There needs to be a better way to end this woman's life if that's the way this Judge/god/executioner has determined it.
          She can't feel anything since HER BRAIN IS FUCKING LIQUID.

          Besides, wasn't she bulimic? Maybe they can leave the feeding tube in, and then just stick their fingers down her throat to make her vomit.

          Comment

          • academic punk
            Full Member Status

            • Dec 2004
            • 4437

            #6
            She has no brain function. The only thng cruel and unusual about this is the extent to which the branches of government other than the courts has been involved.

            Is it sad? Of course. But it's been over for years.

            The bizarre thing is that Bill Hicks used to joke if anti-abortionists are so pro-life, why don't they form blockades around cemetaries.

            Turns out that wasn't a joke....it was a slice of prophecy!

            Comment

            • BigBadBrian
              TOASTMASTER GENERAL
              • Jan 2004
              • 10625

              #7
              Originally posted by kentuckyklira
              How many kids in the third world could be kept from starving with the money spent to keep that vegetable alive?
              Hmm.....I don't know. But I forgot, in Germany they would probably eat her.

              What kind of vegetable is she anyway? Would she go well with a cheese sauce?
              “If bullshit was currency, Joe Biden would be a billionaire.” - George W. Bush

              Comment

              • Warham
                DIAMOND STATUS
                • Mar 2004
                • 14589

                #8
                Originally posted by Nickdfresh
                She can't feel anything since HER BRAIN IS FUCKING LIQUID.

                Besides, wasn't she bulimic? Maybe they can leave the feeding tube in, and then just stick their fingers down her throat to make her vomit.
                Nick has no compassion for those who are being starved to death.

                Like Brian said, you would get put in the patty wagon if you did that to your dog.

                Comment

                • BigBadBrian
                  TOASTMASTER GENERAL
                  • Jan 2004
                  • 10625

                  #9
                  Originally posted by Nickdfresh
                  She can't feel anything since HER BRAIN IS FUCKING LIQUID.

                  Besides, wasn't she bulimic? Maybe they can leave the feeding tube in, and then just stick their fingers down her throat to make her vomit.
                  I'm not debating the WHY, I'm debating the HOW.
                  “If bullshit was currency, Joe Biden would be a billionaire.” - George W. Bush

                  Comment

                  • BigBadBrian
                    TOASTMASTER GENERAL
                    • Jan 2004
                    • 10625

                    #10
                    Originally posted by Warham
                    Nick has no compassion for those who are being starved to death.

                    Like Brian said, you would get put in the patty wagon if you did that to your dog.
                    My point exactly. Bingo.....right on the nose.


                    The title of the thread says it all.
                    “If bullshit was currency, Joe Biden would be a billionaire.” - George W. Bush

                    Comment

                    • Warham
                      DIAMOND STATUS
                      • Mar 2004
                      • 14589

                      #11
                      Originally posted by academic punk
                      She has no brain function. The only thng cruel and unusual about this is the extent to which the branches of government other than the courts has been involved.

                      Is it sad? Of course. But it's been over for years.

                      The bizarre thing is that Bill Hicks used to joke if anti-abortionists are so pro-life, why don't they form blockades around cemetaries.

                      Turns out that wasn't a joke....it was a slice of prophecy!
                      No brain function, eh?

                      I wonder how she's able to breath on her own with 0% brain function.

                      Comment

                      • BigBadBrian
                        TOASTMASTER GENERAL
                        • Jan 2004
                        • 10625

                        #12
                        Originally posted by Warham
                        No brain function, eh?

                        I wonder how she's able to breath on her own with 0% brain function.
                        AUTOPILOT.
                        “If bullshit was currency, Joe Biden would be a billionaire.” - George W. Bush

                        Comment

                        • Warham
                          DIAMOND STATUS
                          • Mar 2004
                          • 14589

                          #13
                          Just be right out front about it. They are killing her. It ain't pulling any plug here, since she can breathe on her own.

                          Comment

                          • Nickdfresh
                            SUPER MODERATOR

                            • Oct 2004
                            • 49205

                            #14
                            Originally posted by Warham
                            Nick has no compassion for those who are being starved to death.

                            Like Brian said, you would get put in the patty wagon if you did that to your dog.
                            Like the thousands of kids starving in this country every day? Do they get a special Sunday edition (for Christian Fundamentalist morons) of Congress? I have more compassion for this girl than any of you hypocrite fucks using her as a political football. Put her out of the misery of her own stasis and those around and put her beyond the reach of all the ghoulish phonies exploiting her.

                            Comment

                            • Nickdfresh
                              SUPER MODERATOR

                              • Oct 2004
                              • 49205

                              #15
                              Originally posted by Warham
                              Just be right out front about it. They are killing her. It ain't pulling any plug here, since she can breathe on her own.
                              Then send her home. Always feed every baby born with no brain function.

                              Comment

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