'Cruel and unusual'

[Warham]

If a baby was born with no brain function, they'd be a stillborn.

I suspect that Schiavo's civil rights may have been violated.

[Warham]

Originally posted by Nickdfresh
Like the thousands of kids starving in this country every day? Do they get a special Sunday edition (for Christian Fundamentalist morons) of Congress? I have more compassion for this girl than any of you hypocrite fucks using her as a political football. Put her out of the misery of her own stasis and those around and put her beyond the reach of all the ghoulish phonies exploiting her.

Well, Nick, if those kids are starving, that doesn't bother you too much, since this doesn't, right?

Give those poor kids a morphine drip...they'll never feel a thing.

[Nickdfresh]

Originally posted by Warham
No brain function, eh?

I wonder how she's able to breath on her own with 0% brain function.

The autonomic response of the medulla located at her brain stem. The part that controls the most basic of functions, and the last part of the brain to die. The rest of her brain turned to mush, LITERALLY!

Her husband spent much of the settlement award (you know, the awards that Bush is trying to limit?) to try new therapies and worked with her parents initially. But when the money became involved, that's when they turned on him.

[Warham]

Actually he's spent most of the settlement so far paying his lawyer to finish her off.

[Nickdfresh]

Originally posted by Warham
Well, Nick, if those kids are starving, that doesn't bother you too much, since this doesn't, right?

What the hell are you talking about? Their poverty is often the result of resources being wasted on cases such as this

Give those poor kids a morphine drip...they'll never feel a thing.

Yes they will, since they have higher level brain functions.

[Nickdfresh]

Originally posted by Warham
Actually he spent most of the settlement so far paying his lawyer to finish her off.

No, he didn't.

[Nickdfresh]

Originally posted by Warham
If a baby was born with no brain function, they'd be a stillborn.

I suspect that Schiavo's civil rights may have been violated.

No, they can often breath on their own.

I suspect her civil rights were violated also, by cynical ghoulish partisans.

[Warham]

Oh, so she's a waste of money now, is she?

No, her civil rights were NOT violated by Congress.

If anything, it's a good thing that her civil rights are to decided by a federal judge(s).

Her husband waited seven fucking years to finally remember that she told him she didn't want to live this way...I wonder why he waited until after the settlement came through?

[Nickdfresh]

Originally posted by Warham
Oh, so she's a waste of money now, is she?

Yes.

[Warham]

OK, how much is a human life worth Nick?

Let's play the Price is Right.

Shalll we start with $5 and work from there?

[Warham]

Suspicious Circumstances: The Strange Case Of Terri Shiavo
November 24, 2003
By Jennifer King, The American Partisan


As the case of Terri Shiavo slips away from the front pages, it is worth revisiting the odd twists and tangles of this bizarre case. There are mysterious connections and odd characters which, so far, have failed to elicit the curiosity of the mainstream media. To recap the case, Terri Shiavo collapsed at home in 1990, under suspicious circumstances. Her lapse into a vigorously debated “vegetative” state is usually blamed on a potassium deficiency, but hospital admittance records also show evidence of trauma to her neck.

Further questions arise from testimony of one of her friends, who allege that Terri was unhappy and contemplating a divorce from her husband, Michael. Michael is alleged to have been possessive and jealous, at one point falling into a rage when Terri spent $80 on a haircut.

After the accident, Michael became Terri’s guardian, and he used that position to seek a hefty malpractice award. A sympathetic jury took the seemingly distraught Michael at his word, awarding him 1.2 million, earmarked for Terri’s rehabilitation, with an additional $300,000 going directly to him for “loss of consortium”. After receiving the award, however, Michael seemingly lost all interest in Terri’s rehabilitation.

Several nurses who worked with Terri in the early 1990s filed affidavits which detail some very troubling events. Nurse Carolyn Johnson alleges that Michael Schiavo was adamant about not providing any rehabilitation at all for Terri - including common therapies such as placing a towel in her hands to keep them from seizing up. Nurse Heidi Law testified that she would feed Terri with a wet washcloth. Terri was able to swallow then without trouble. Nurse Law also testified that Michael refused to allow any therapy whatsoever, including the usual range of motion exercises.

Nurse Carla Saver Iyer had the most damning testimony. Iyer alleged that Michael would enter Terri’s room, saying, “Has the bitch died yet?” Iyer says that Michael was “elated” each time Terri’s condition worsened, telling her that when Terri died he was “going to be rich” and that he planned on buying a car, a boat, and traveling to Europe. Law and Iyer both allege that they heard Terri speak, saying, “Help me” and “Momma”.

Michael Shiavo clearly has some explaining to do. A supposedly “loving” husband, only carrying out his disabled wife’s medical orders, surely wouldn’t behave this way. The Schindlers, Terri’s parents, further allege that Michael withheld antibiotics when Terri developed an infection, refused to clean her teeth for seven years, and has kept her family and friends from visiting her. Most outrageously, when the feeding tube was disconnected and Terri lay dying, Michael also denied her last Communion - on the basis that the Host could be considered food.

Another oddity enters the case in the personage of Shiavo’s lawyer, George Felos. Felos is a noted “right to die” lawyer, who has written a book on how he “communicates” with the souls of disabled people. Felos asserts that he can “hear their screams” and that they “want to be released.” Felos was infuriated when Terri’s feeding tube was replaced. He angrily denounced the action, saying bizarrely that Terri’s “deathbed experience was unlawfully stopped.” Felos, a past member of the Hemlock Society, clearly hopes to advance along the Crusade of Death, with maybe a book and/or movie deal thrown in for good measure. Felos was Chairman of the Board of the Hospice of the Florida Suncoast, when Terri was secretly whisked out of the hospital and taken there to die.

What does Michael Shiavo gain from killing his wife? Both he and Felos have said that there is only about $60,000 left from the malpractice award monies, but they refuse to make bank account information available to either the Schindlers or the public.

Michael’s professed reasons for ending Terri’s life ring particularly hollow in light of the fact that he has been living with his girlfriend since 1995. They have one child, and another is on the way. The Schindlers allegedly offered to let him keep the malpractice money if he would just divorce Terri and move on. So why won’t he?

Several possible incentives exist. One is the insurance money. None was used as mandated on Terri’s rehabilitation, and it could have been invested. By now the sum could be substantially higher, even with his legal fees. Fr. Robert Johansen has also theorized that, by divorcing Terri in a community property state, Michael stands to lose half of his possessions and other monies. Better just to kill her off and keep what’s left of the insurance money and all of his worldly goods.

Terri’s family believes that Michael is intent upon killing her for the same reason he denied her rehabilitation - he’s got something to hide and he doesn’t want Terri waking up and talking about it. Several medical documents in their possession lend credence to this theory.

Michael must be made to answer some very serious questions. If he isn’t trying to end Terri’s life for nefarious reasons, there must be another answer. At the very least he should be called to account for why he spent money earmarked for Terri’s recovery on lawyers instead, who are trying mightily to have her killed.

[academic punk]

Originally posted by Warham
No brain function, eh?

I wonder how she's able to breath on her own with 0% brain function.

Well, since you have some experience with these matters, you tell me.

[Nickdfresh]

Tom DeLay's Partisan Pig!

Delay Hypocrisy: The GOP Using The Schiavo Case For Political Gain. Who Cries for Sun Hudson?

By Anthony Wade

March 19, 2005

https://www.OpEdNews.com

This is a story of two people who could not be more different, while at the same time, be so alike. More importantly, it is a story about a whore of a politician who genuinely does not care about either, but shows it in completely different ways. This is a story about hypocrisy and how Tom Delay and the Republican Party embody that principle.

The first person in this sad story is named Terry Schiavo. Most people have heard about Mrs. Schiavo because she has been in the headlines on several occasions, for her current predicament. Fifteen years ago, Mrs. Schiavo suffered a heart attack and fell into a coma, at the shockingly young age of 26. Today, Mrs. Schiavo is 41, still alive due to medical advances that sustain her through machinery. On one side of this story about Mrs. Schiavo is her husband and legal guardian, Michael. Michael Schiavo insists that Terri would never want to live this way, kept alive only by machinery. He has been fighting the legal battle to have her feeding tube removed, which would ensure her passing away. On the other side of this battle is the family of Terri Schiavo, who do not wish to see their daughter/sister die, and in fact view Michael as wishing to essentially “starve her to death.”

Recently, Michael Schiavo won a court battle that allowed the removal of the feeding tube for his wife. Since the starvation process would take some time, Terri’s family immediately went back to try and fight the legality of this decision. What they got, was support from an unexpected source. Tom Delay and the GOP have now seized upon this story and are using it to further their own agenda and to paint their opponents, the democrats, in an awkward position. In a feeble attempt to stop the removal of the feeding tube, Delay tried to subpoena Terri to appear and testify before Congress. An obvious publicity stunt, since Terri Schiavo has not spoken in 15 years, the attempt failed and the tube was removed. Undeterred, Delay vowed to continue to fight this fight, declaring the court’s decision a “moral and legal tragedy” and accusing the judge of “trying to kill Terri for 4 1/2 years."

Delay of course has no idea what he is talking about since he has only been involved in this case for a few weeks, when it gained some political legs for him. There is a word for that where I come from. It is called hypocrisy. To further this allegation, ABC News obtained a GOP talking points memo which explained to Senate republicans why their involvement in the Schiavo case would be important. The talking points stated that the Schiavo case was an important moral issue and that the "pro-life base will be excited," and that it is a "great political issue -- this is a tough issue for Democrats."

Did you notice that there was nothing about Terri Schiavo in their rationale for taking up this cause? Instead, the GOP has outlined that they need to align themselves on the side of Terri Schiavo because:

1) It will excite the pro-life base
2) It is a great political issue
3) It is a tough issue for democrats

Is anyone else disgusted? When asked about the talking points, Delay denied they were GOP related and denounced them. Sure Tom, we believe you. After all, you have never been involved in anything unethical, right? Oh wait a minute, there were a couple of problems weren’t there? Let’s take a quick look at the ethics of Mr. Delay:

1) Delay’s Political Action Committee is under criminal investigation for using corporate monies to finance political campaigns.
2) Delay tried to bribe another congressman to vote for the Medicare Bill. He earned a public admonishment from the House Ethics Committee for this.
3) Delay used taxpayer monies to fuel a partisan hunt for missing democrats in Texas. He was rebuked by the House Ethics Panel for this.
4) Delay set up a children’s charity as a front to collect soft money from anonymous donors. Some of this money was then used for “dinners, a golf tournament, and rock concerts.” This allowed companies who wanted to win favor with Delay to do so without revealing themselves as campaign donors.
5) In another rebuke by the House Ethics Committee, we saw executives at Westar Energy state that they believed their $56,500 contribution to the Delay PAC would get them a “seat at the table” when key energy legislation was going to be drafted. Delay also played in the Westar golf fundraiser, just as the 2002 House-Senate conference on major energy legislation was getting underway,
6) Delay took $100,000 from a Texas prison company as a bill was pending that dealt with the privatization of Texas prisons.
7) Delay received a “private rebuke” in 1999 for misusing his power to payback a trade group that had named a democrat to head their Washington operation. Delay had stopped two uncontroversial trade bills which hurt the trade group in question and told them that they would lose all GOP access unless they hired a republican instead.
8) Delay accepted donations to his own defense fund from two individuals he then named to the very House Ethics Committee that had already been so critical of him. Did you get that America? The House Ethics Committee correctly rebuked Delay three separate times. In response, Delay removed those that would dare be critical of him, and replaced them with people who had already donated money to his defense fund.
9) Delay took an opulent vacation in 2000, paid for by an Indian tribe and a gambling services company, both of which opposed legislation which Delay then voted against, two months later.
10) Delay accepted a trip to South Korea, which was paid for by a South Korean lobbying group, a violation of House rules. The cost of this trip was in excess of $100,000.
11) Delay proposed changes to the House Ethics Committee which “would prevent the committee from launching any investigation without the support of at least one republican – a restriction designed to protect the majority leader.”
12) Delay tried to convince House leaders to abandon an 11 year old rule which required leaders to step aside temporarily if indicted. Delay was facing possible indictment at the time. The idea was dropped because it “sent the wrong message.” Do you think?

Not content to mangle the ethics of the House of Representatives, Mr. Delay has now decided to venture into the realm of the ethics of social consciousness. The problem for him is ethics are ethics and if you do not have any, it will become apparent regardless of the forum. He expects us to believe that he has taken up the Schiavo cause for a reason he does not comprehend, ethics. The talking points reveal all we need to know, this is not about Terry Schiavo for Tom Delay. It is another opportunity to use someone for his own advantage. Michael Schiavo referred to it as a mockery and he is correct. He stated this week, “These people in Congress are walking all over my personal and private life. I'm telling you, the United States citizens, you better start speaking up, because these people are going to trample into your personal, private affairs." On this point, Michael Schiavo is right. He is right because Tom Delay could care less about Terry Schiavo. She is only a political weapon for him to wield. You can be sure of this because for every Terry Schiavo, there is a Sun Hudson, who never gets the attention of the Tom Delay’s of the world. Therein lies their hypocrisy.

Sun Hudson is the second person in our story. Sun was 17 pounds and six months old when the staff at Texas Children's Hospital removed his breathing tube and allowed him to die this week. Sun was born with a fatal form of dwarfism characterized by short arms, short legs and lungs too small. This condition is often found in utero, but Sun’s mother had no pre-natal care, so the condition went undiagnosed. Placed on a ventilator, doctors eventually recommended withdrawing treatment but Sun’s mother, Wanda, refused. Unfortunately for Wanda Hudson, Tom Delay’s home state of Texas has a law which allows hospitals to discontinue life-sustaining care, even if a patient's family members disagree. Where was the self-righteous Tom Delay in the case of Sun Hudson? His silence is deafening in its hypocrisy.

I do not pretend to have the answers to what is moral or correct in either of these situations. I just prefer to be consistent. If you believe all life is life and must be protected at all cost, then stand up for it at all times, not just when it is politically beneficial. In the battle over Terri Schiavo both sides claim things are not as the other side claims. Terri’s family says she is responsive to stimuli. Michael, her husband insists that his wife would not want to live like this and that this is about mercy.

In the case of little Sun Hudson, the doctors paid to defend the hospital’s decision to end his life said, “This isn't murder. It's mercy, and it's appropriate to be merciful in that way. It's not killing, it's stopping pointless treatment." It sounds like Michael Schiavo and these doctors can agree about a lot. Wanda Hudson had this to say after finally getting some media coverage, “I wanted y'all to see my son for yourself. So you could see he was actually moving around. He was conscious." It sounds like Wanda Hudson and the family of Terri Schiavo could agree about a lot as well.

That is the point isn’t it? There are two sides to these heart-wrenching stories. Both sides have their valid points and are deserving of their rights and privacy. Both sides are legitimate in their defense of what they truly believe in. The ethically bankrupt Tom Delay on the other hand, should be ashamed to politicize the issue of life and death. He should be embarrassed to drag his own hypocrisy into the arena of public opinion, just to “excite the pro-life base” or to give the democrats a “tough political issue to handle.”

Terri Schiavo is a real person and deserves better than to be treated as a political football to further the cause of the GOP. That is hypocrisy. This is the same hypocrisy that says that George Bush believes in a “culture of life” while waging war to no end. It is the same hypocrisy that sees so many people in the right-to-life movement cross-enrolled in the National Rifle Association supporting armor piercing bullets for “hunters”. It is the same hypocrisy that sees a man such as Tom Delay, devoid of ethics; decrying the ethical state of affairs in the Terri Schiavo case at the very same instant they are removing the tube from Sun Hudson, killing him.

Where is the outrage for Sun Hudson? Who cries for Sun Hudson? Wasn’t the life of Sun Hudson as important as the life of Terri Schiavo? The easy answer is yes. Unfortunately, the truthful answer is the life of Sun Hudson was just not as politically valuable. That should cause us all to at least pause for a moment and realize that the value of life should never be measured politically.

[Warham]

It was a valid question, punk.

Care to answer?

[Warham]

I'm sick of this Tom Delay shit...

Tell me why 50 Democrats voted with the Republicans...what crimes are they being investigated for?

::crickets chirping::