THE PITTSBURGH Sports CHATTER

**Va Beach VH Fan** · 10-05-2006, 05:32 PM

Nah....

No way Mario sells the team to someone intent on moving it...

Press conference tonight between 1st and 2nd periods.....

I just got off of my soapbox on my blog because of the coverage....

**POJO_Risin** · 10-05-2006, 10:53 PM

So Va...

you are telling me...

that if they don't get a new arena...

the new owner is just going to say...

"Gee, I'm going to keep losing money..."

especially when he came in initially saying he was going to move the team?

NOW...you have Bettman and this guy both saying the same thing...

I WON'T MOVE THE TEAM...

IF...

we get a new arena...

And I'm sorry...but as good a guy as Mario is...he can't hold onto the team forever...

**Va Beach VH Fan** · 10-06-2006, 07:10 PM

No, don't misunderstand me big guy...

Even the biggest optimists have to concur that if the slots license fails, then Plan B talks break down, then yeah, it's all over...

What I'm saying is that the new owner, IMO, will make every attempt to make Plan B work, unless the city/county can't make a deal work....

Which is not going to happen, with everything I'm reading about those parties being willing right now to negotiate, which the Pens can't really do right now until they get word in December about who wins the slots license.

**POJO_Risin** · 10-06-2006, 07:18 PM

Thing is...from what my Dad's been telling me...Lemieux thinks the Plan B deal stinks...

how come? I read an article the other day that had Rendell "pleading" with Lemieux to agree to "plan B" right now...or endorse it...and he wouldn't because of "discretions."

Now if those discretions are that he's not the owner when it all goes down...that's one thing...

But the thing is bro...thing about how you are about sports. Let's say YOU were buying the Pens in July, and wanted to move them to Virginia Beach. You'd spent your life there...your business is there...everything is there. You want to bring your Peeps an NHL club. Then you realize Mario won't sell if you are moving the team. Not the NHL...not really...but Mario. So you pull your name out of the hat. Watch for a couple of months...then come back...and loe and behold...ready to leave the team in Pittsburgh? I know how stubborn you are...and I really know how stubborn I am.

I think he'll "try" to keep the team in Pittsburgh...but I don't think he'll make "every attempt" to do it. I think he'll be as passive as he can be...and if the "chips" fall where they may...so be it...

I DON'T think that it will be an issue...I really don't...because I don't think the license will go elsewhere...

but if it does...I see trouble...

**Va Beach VH Fan** · 10-06-2006, 09:31 PM

The thing about the Pens not commenting on Plan B is that they've said from the start that they are contractually aligned with Isle Of Capri, and until that slots license is resolved, they won't comment or do any negotiations with Plan B.

So while some say that they're not commenting on Plan B because they don't like it, I think it's because they're keeping loyal to the IOC agreement, until that time comes....

**POJO_Risin** · 10-06-2006, 10:22 PM

I actually need to see more of plan B before I even comment on it...

it seems...a bit unrealistic...

**Va Beach VH Fan** · 10-07-2006, 10:34 AM

Ask and ye shall receive my friend...

As you see, it's not a bad deal at all, compared to what other NHL clubs are dishing out....

http://www.post-gazette.com/pg/06280/728140-61.stm

Plan B would leave Pens at center ice
Deal comparable to others given in NHL
Saturday, October 07, 2006

By Mark Belko, Pittsburgh Post-Gazette

Gov. Ed Rendell's Plan B for financing a new hockey arena here would be a middling deal for the Penguins, compared to other recent arena projects involving National Hockey League teams.

It would require the Penguins to kick in $128.5 million over 30 years toward the arena's $563.5 million cost plus debt service -- or 22.8 percent.

Since 2000, National Hockey League teams have contributed anywhere from zero to more than 30 percent of the cost of building arenas in the cities in which they play.

Plan B could be the key to keeping the Penguins in Pittsburgh under new owner Jim Balsillie if Isle of Capri Casinos Inc. does not win the state license for the Pittsburgh slot machine casino.

To the Penguins and Mr. Balsillie, Isle of Capri offers the best of all deals -- a pledge of $290 million upfront to cover the entire cost of a new arena, with no team money involved. It guarantees that the Penguins would stay put.

Mr. Balsillie, a Canadian businessman, wanted last summer to move the team to Ontario, but more recently has indicated he would try to keep it in Pittsburgh, contingent on a workable deal for a new arena.

Plan B is the fallback if Isle of Capri, one of three casino bidders, doesn't win the competition. It calls for the team to put in $8.5 million up front, plus $4 million per year over 30 years.

Another $7.5 million a year for 30 years would come from the winning casino bidder, either Forest City Enterprises or PITG Gaming LLC, and $7 million a year from a slots-financed state economic development fund, under Mr. Rendell's plan.

In dollars, the $128.5 million would be more than the Columbus Blue Jackets (zero), Minnesota Wild ($35 million), Phoenix Coyotes ($40 million) and New Jersey Devils ($100 million) have paid or, in the case of the Devils, will pay for a new arena.

The only bigger contribution in dollars was for the American Airlines Center in Dallas, where the basketball Mavericks and hockey Stars put in a combined $295 million toward the $420 million construction.

Plan B's 22.8 percent for the Penguins is lower than the Stars/Mavericks' 70.2 percent and the Devils' 32.2 percent but higher than the Blue Jackets' zero, the Coyotes' 18.1 percent, and the Wild's 21.2 percent.

Neil deMause, co-author of Field of Schemes, a book about stadium financing controversies, said the Plan B deal appears to be in the middle of the pack, or as he put it, "about par for the course in terms of sweetheart deals."

Arena deals, he said, tend to be "pretty [bad] ones for the public so being right in the middle ... is not something to be proud of."

Allen Sanderson, senior lecturer in economics at the University of Chicago, said the present value of the team contribution under Plan B would be in the neighborhood of $50 million to $60 million.

"In present-value terms, that's such a small fraction of the value of the facility. That's a deal," he said.

Whether it's a deal Mr. Balsillie can accept remains to be seen. In speaking with reporters Thursday, he threw his support behind the Isle of Capri proposal but had little to say about Plan B.

Allegheny County Chief Executive Dan Onorato and Pittsburgh Mayor Luke Ravenstahl spoke to a representative of Mr. Balsillie for the first time yesterday. Both have said that Plan B terms are negotiable.

Mr. Ravenstahl said the most recent arena deals show that "we're right in the mix. We're in position to have discussions and ultimately to be successful."

Neither he nor Mr. Onorato engaged in any negotiations with the representative of Mr. Balsillie in their first talk yesterday. Mr. Ravenstahl said the conversation was "more of an introductory type of thing."

Although Mr. Balsillie spoke of the urgency of building a new arena Thursday, Mr. Ravenstahl said he does not expect formal negotiations to begin until the NHL approves the sale. That may not come until December, when the NHL Board of Governors is next scheduled to meet.

**POJO_Risin** · 10-07-2006, 04:33 PM

I'm going to take the stance of everyone else...and not talk about plan B until I have too...

right now...

I think the Isle of Capri deal goes through...

if not...

well...

I don't have a lot of faith in Plan B...

**Va Beach VH Fan** · 10-07-2006, 06:12 PM

Ye of little faith... :D

To be honest, the consensus is that the Forest City group (Harrah's) has the edge, of course because of political reasons..

And of course politics has nothing to do with common sense, i.e. if IOC wins, they front the entire 290 million for the arena....

Although, with the recent news that Harrah's just got a bid to be taken over, that may skew things....

We'll know in December....

**POJO_Risin** · 10-07-2006, 06:47 PM

Well...I can tell you this...

I grew up in Cleveland...and watched a team leave...

Why?

Not because of the fans...the place sold out weekly...equally as rabid as our Steelers

Why?

because of a stadium. Modell wanted a stadium. Now, Cleveland had turned down a stadium proposal a year or so earlier...and Modell used it to ride his fucking broom out of town. Thing is...Cleveland was going to build him a stadium (since the ultimately did). He had just run the team into a ground and needed a sweetheart deal to stay afloat.

Reality though...is that any sensible business man could make a team work in Cleveland because of the fan base.

this is what I compare every potential move too...because I remember when I first heard about the move...I thought...and so did everyone else..."NO WAY."

Now...with the Pens move...I see many striking similarities...

NOBODY WANTS them to move seemingly...

They've had issues with building a new building...

and now...they have an owner who truth be told, would rather have a team closer to home (although any moron would take Plan A because he pays nothing for new digs).

I have faith...

but in plan A...because it's to good to be true.

**Unchainme** · 10-08-2006, 02:36 PM

**POJO_Risin** · 10-08-2006, 02:47 PM

Kordell had 2 good...no...great season...and nothing else...

and he imploded in both playoffs...costing them the game...

**Va Beach VH Fan** · 10-08-2006, 02:48 PM

I miss Three Rivers sometimes....

Much louder than Heinz Field with it being enclosed....

I'm sure the players don't feel that way though...

**POJO_Risin** · 10-08-2006, 02:51 PM

Three Rivers was a great fucking place to see a football game...

I've seen 12 games there over the years...mostly against the Browns...

and when that placed Rocked...well...

it rocked...

**Unchainme** · 10-08-2006, 06:13 PM

eh..I sorta know what you mean...

I never got to see a game at the old Muni..

I went to a game at the new stadium last year...and the energy just was weird...Even if you never went to a game at the muni like me you could sense it....I was like the spirit was dead..

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