The Army Boxing Thread

[TFM_Dale]

Well, here goes:

Lewis - Ali

Lewis, UD 12. Yeah, I know Ali is 'the greatest'. But I always ask myself - 'who did he fight that could box?' Put a slugger in front of him, and Ali wins all day. But what about a guy who can move, and box? Norton gave Ali fits for those reasons and Lewis is a whole different ball-game to Norton. With big power, a jab far superior to anyone Ali had ever faced (and second only to Larry Holmes) and having a significant advantage in size, a prime Lennox Lewis would have out-boxed Ali. There, I said it. (I also think that a prime Larry Holmes would have been all wrong for Ali, too).

Tyson - Liston

Waaaaar! Liston's jab undoubtedly causes Tyson problems, but has Liston ever been hit so hard and so fast? I think not - Tyson by TKO in the middle rounds.

Vitali - Foreman

Vitali UD 12. Another one that will surprise people. Foreman was a KO merchant. Problem this time round is that no-one has ever put Vitali down or, if we're honest, hurt him. He took everything Lewis had to throw and kept coming, for instance. In fact, the only time Vitali has lost is due to injury - a shoulder to Chris Byrd, and the need for dozens of stiches in his face against Lewis. Foreman was also used to being the bigger guy - but 6'3'' and 220lbs would feel mighty small against 6'7'' and 250lbs - he might have struggled to land regularly. I give Foreman enough respect to survive the barrage of punishment he takes here - Vitali has one of the highest KO percentages of all time - but I just don't see him being able to outwork Vitali over twelve.

Frazier - Marciano

This would be an all time classic. Both guys fight in phone-booths; both are about the same size. I just sense that Marciano is tougher, but not by much. And his right hand is everyone's nightmare. So I say Marciano by stoppage after an all time classic bout.

binnie - Harrison.

Harrison doesn't even show up because he's terrified.

I know you love Bitchko and Lewis, just wondering what you think would have happened in a rematch?

[vandeleur]

Ali ... I don't like Lewis
Frazier
Foreman , the foreman who destroyed Frazier would have defeated any heavyweight ever !!! The fact that Ali broke him . A fact documented and confirmed by foreman himself . If Foreman had of beaten Ali or ducked him foreman would have bashed the division for years .
Young Tyson
Binnie vs Audrey Hepburn . Draw ;-)

And larry Holmes is / was very under rated amongst the greats .

[binnie]

I know you love Bitchko and Lewis, just wondering what you think would have happened in a rematch?

Lewis would have won the rematch. If you go through his career, he always performed better in rematches. Plus, Vitali was a very late stand in for the first fight, so second time round Lewis would have trained with him in mind.

Don't really 'love' either fighter - I respect Lewis immensely: he wasn't always exciting, but he was incredibly talented and his ability to move so well for a big man means that he would be a nightmare for any of the greats in history. Vitali is as tough as they come - it's not the Klits fault that there's not really been any quality opposition to challenge them but, once again, their sheer size means that the great fighters of the '60s and '70s would have had serious problems with them - giving a way 5'' in height and 30lbs is a lot to ask of anyone. We all gravitate to the Alis and and Foreman's of the world, but when you take out emotion and think about the logistics of fighting, you'd have to admit that they'd be a hard night's work for anyone. With Wlad's chin, there's always a chance that someone lands a 'lucky shot' and KOs him. Vitali, however, has a granite jaw - I just don't see how people from the eras where heavyweights were smaller could beat him.

[binnie]

And larry Holmes is / was very under rated amongst the greats .

I think that if there was a tournament between the 15 best heavyweights of all time, Larry Holmes would have come out on top. He was just too good a boxer - I figure he's have boxed Ali's head off (again, Ali didn't ever fight anyone who could really box). The two fights I have any doubts about Holmes winning would be Vitali, and Tyson (I think Mike's speed gives Holmes problems).

[TFM_Dale]

Lewis would have won the rematch. If you go through his career, he always performed better in rematches. Plus, Vitali was a very late stand in for the first fight, so second time round Lewis would have trained with him in mind.

Don't really 'love' either fighter - I respect Lewis immensely: he wasn't always exciting, but he was incredibly talented and his ability to move so well for a big man means that he would be a nightmare for any of the greats in history. Vitali is as tough as they come - it's not the Klits fault that there's not really been any quality opposition to challenge them but, once again, their sheer size means that the great fighters of the '60s and '70s would have had serious problems with them - giving a way 5'' in height and 30lbs is a lot to ask of anyone. We all gravitate to the Alis and and Foreman's of the world, but when you take out emotion and think about the logistics of fighting, you'd have to admit that they'd be a hard night's work for anyone. With Wlad's chin, there's always a chance that someone lands a 'lucky shot' and KOs him. Vitali, however, has a granite jaw - I just don't see how people from the eras where heavyweights were smaller could beat him.

I was just interested in how you thought it would have played out

[binnie]

Good fights last night. Nathan Cleverly lost his WBO light-heavyweight title to Sergey Kovalev (who may be the new force in the division):

http://youtu.be/_H-vHvwYAbA

Daniel Geale also lost his IBF Middleweight title to Darren Barker. Really cracking fight if you get chance to see it.

[vandeleur]

Yeah I just read about the cleverly fight ... Seems he was blown away . Bit of a surprise I thought he was on course to join up the titles

[binnie]

He was completely blown away - a bit of surprise since I don't think he's ever been down (or even hurt) before. Kovalev is big dude for 175 though, Cleverely looked small by comparison.

I don't think it's the end for Cleverely. It is probably the first time he's met a genuinely world class fighter, however, and he came up very short.

Kovalev-Tarvoris Cloud would be a great fight in the future.

[Seshmeister]

.....

[jhale667]

Saw that happen at another fight and the dude that got kissed immediately took a step back and knocked the other dude the F out.

[vandeleur]

J I saw that clip on YouTube ... That's what I thought the Sesh clip was at first .
Dodgy trick in boxing to out your face that close .

[jhale667]

J I saw that clip on YouTube ... That's what I thought the Sesh clip was at first .
Dodgy trick in boxing to out your face that close .

Wish I could find it, it's funny as hell... especially when the dude starts apologizing for knocking the dude out when he gets DQ'd for hitting before the bell... something to the effect of:


"What?!? I'm sorry, I thought he was coming on to me, and I'm not a homosexual! I mean, he kissed me!?!"

And when they show the dude on the canvas coming to, he's looking up like "I can't believe he just HIT me!" Like WTF was he expecting him to do?

[binnie]

Handbags!

[ToraToraTora]

Was at the Ricky Burns V Raymundo Beltran fight last night in Glasgow. I like Ricky, limited ability, heart of a lion and a very very nice guy. Last nights result was a fuckin disgrace. Beltran bossed this fight from start to the 10th round even scoring a knockdown in the 8th. Ricky shaded that last 2 rounds.....just. Result....a draw, a fuckin draw. Beltran must be absolutely gutted, he couldn't do any more and was robbed of the title. Ricky fought from the 2nd with a dislocated jaw and fair play to him for carrying on until the end, but even he must be waking up in his hospital bed this morning thinking that he lost that fight. Results like this are what give boxing the terrible reputation it has for looking after it's box office draws. Ricky's fights in Scotland are huge events attended by 1000's of punters. Eddie Hearn had obviously being showing the judges some great hospitality and they helped out his fighter, one judge had Ricky 3 rounds ahead???? I am fuckin embarrassed by this result. Disgrace. Rant over.

And the silence from the home crowd when their boy kept his belt said it all.

[vandeleur]

Yeah I thought the crowds reaction was the true story , fair play to Ricky for carrying on but he lost the fight .