The Army Boxing Thread

[DlocRoth]

You know what sucks about the whole PacFraud/Marquez thing? After 3 fights that could have went Marquez's way if he does agree to a 4th he will likely fight in a different manner and the Fraud will finally get a clean win over him. This whole thing blows, boxing needs saving from shit like this, I remember begging Mick to record fights for me when I was a kid because I was into it big time, loved watching anything I could get my hands on and while their was plenty of controversy back then to it just seems to get worse by the year, pisses me off.

Dude. I SO want to man hug you right now.

[binnie]

It's not like the 168 pound class is ripe full of talent though. They were good fighters for sure, but Calzeghe is the best of a middling division only touched upon by the truly talented on occasion. You could really make a case that Jones Jr. popped more punch in his short career as a Super Middle than Calzeghe did in much of his career. While I'm not going to argue that point, because it would ONLY be conjecture, some of Jones Jr's most impressive fights were at 168. Of course, I only think he had ten or so fights at Super Middle...

and I know he had to go down once or twice while at 168 to defend the middleweight title.

His fight against Toney...when Toney was the lb for lb king was legendary...total domination...and mockery of Toney in his priime.

Had he stayed there, and not gone up to light heavy...it would have been an interesting conversation regarding the top slot.

Had they fought five or six years earlier than their 2008 fight, it would have been a blockbuster...

Agreed that Calzeghe is the clear top...and Jones somewhere in the 3-5 range...but the what ifs are fun to think about.

I've never thought much of Calzeghe...perhaps out of ignorance...but ugly or not...I thought Hopkins won that fight...and should have gotten a rematch instead of that bullshit fight against a washed up Jones Jr.

I'd pretty much agree with this, although I think Calzaghe's longevity trumps Jones's resume at 168lbs.

Had they met at 168lbs in their primes, Jones wins all night. It wouldn't be a cake walk because Joe was fast and a real pressure fighter (the sort Roy never fought) but I think in RJJ we're talking about the best of the best. Speaking of careers that never reached their potential.......

[binnie]

There's probably something to that, but my friend is a trained fighter (so I tend to give his opinion some extra weight amongst the rest of the office dudes), and said now that he's watched the replays a few times (apparently all the rounds are already up on YouTube) he says he's never seen JMM fight in the wider stance he was in that night (he's a fan of both JMM and Manny), and that he appeared to be watching for Manny's right foot and intentionally jumping on it... even given that he says the only reason HE thinks it wasn't a draw was that PacMan came off like the aggressor for the majority of the fight...but also agrees it was close, and Manny never dominated Marquez at any point in the fight.

I think that, as Pojo says, this has much more to do with a southpaw meeting an orthodox guy.

If we're going to speak fairness, I'd say Pacman making a guy come up 2 weight divisions is stacking the deck somewhat. If I'd have been JMM I'd have been thumbing his eye and calling his mom a whore every time he came close!

[jhale667]

I think that, as Pojo says, this has much more to do with a southpaw meeting an orthodox guy.

If we're going to speak fairness, I'd say Pacman making a guy come up 2 weight divisions is stacking the deck somewhat. If I'd have been JMM I'd have been thumbing his eye and calling his mom a whore every time he came close!

[binnie]

And on that note, I've just noticed that this thread is nearing 25000 views!

[jhale667]

Yep, we're all people of simple tastes here: CVH, having a good time, women, booze.... punching people in the face...

[sonrisa salvaje]

If i was JMM i would certainly fight Pacman again because he is not going to make a bigger payday. However, i would stipulate it by making the fight in Mexico City. If Pacman refuses then that pretty much tells you what the deal is. I haven't seen the buy rate yet for the PPV but i would imagine it did pretty well.

[jhale667]

Chances are there'd at least be two more draws if not Manny defeats had those fights taken place in Mexico City. Check this out though - my buddy just sent me another email, this time with a video recap of all the foot-stomps... 17 total! Harder to chalk that up to conflicting styles alone...seems intentional, but again never thought of JMM as a "dirty" fighter...

[sonrisa salvaje]

I watched the replay of the fight. I had the fight scored with JMM winning by 1 round. To me the fight was fairly boring. Pac's shots were pitter patter compared to JMM. Ok, i get that Manny has good footwork and he was moving forward the entire fight but was it really effective aggression? I'm not sure. Also, there were about 3 rounds which i really had no idea who won. I scored one of them 10-10. I think this truly was a fight in which it is all in the eye of the beholder. I can't say that it was a bad decision but it just didn't feel right in my book.

[jhale667]

I watched the replay of the fight. I had the fight scored with JMM winning by 1 round. To me the fight was fairly boring. Pac's shots were pitter patter compared to JMM. Ok, i get that Manny has good footwork and he was moving forward the entire fight but was it really effective aggression? I'm not sure. Also, there were about 3 rounds which i really had no idea who won. I scored one of them 10-10. I think this truly was a fight in which it is all in the eye of the beholder. I can't say that it was a bad decision but it just didn't feel right in my book.

I watched it this weekend too, and had it a draw. Manny did not decisively beat him, I agree. Nor was his aggression effective for the most part - every time he advanced, Marquez caught him with something. I think it's funny that all this fight did was make pundits more likely to believe Mayweather will DESTROY Manny if they do indeed fight, as Marquez was still giving PacMan fits the whole night...Manny looked concerned he'd lost at the end, and 64% of HBO's audience polled thought he HAD...but it proved once again that Manny can't deal with dudes with effective counter-punching and defense - and Mayweather's is still the best in the game.

[binnie]

Given that Roach has said that 'Marquez deserves an immediate rematch' I think he's now very wary of a Mayweather fight. He also said 'I need to do my job better' in regard to teaching Manny how to deal with counter-punchers.

I've always thought Mayweather has the edge in a Pacquiao fight. I can see Manny's southpaw style causing a few problems early on, and I doubt it'd be completely one-sided, but I imagine Floyd winning a wide UD. I'd like to see him push for a stoppage, but I imagine Floyd is too cautious.

[sonrisa salvaje]

Given that Roach has said that 'Marquez deserves an immediate rematch' I think he's now very wary of a Mayweather fight. He also said 'I need to do my job better' in regard to teaching Manny how to deal with counter-punchers.

I've always thought Mayweather has the edge in a Pacquiao fight. I can see Manny's southpaw style causing a few problems early on, and I doubt it'd be completely one-sided, but I imagine Floyd winning a wide UD. I'd like to see him push for a stoppage, but I imagine Floyd is too cautious.

I agree. Especially watching the replay the other night, it is difficult to imagine how Manny would be able to stay in a competitive fight with Floyd, let alone defeat him.

[jhale667]

I agree. Especially watching the replay the other night, it is difficult to imagine how Manny would be able to stay in a competitive fight with Floyd, let alone defeat him.

He wouldn't - unless by some cosmic accident he managed to catch Floyd with something, which is highly unlikely. Better chance he hangs in for the first few rounds, then gets BADLY humilated - worse with every advancing round by Floyd, and loses the decision by a wide margin. It'd be interesting to see Floyd knock him the F out, but agree Floyd will probably be too cautious for that to happen.

[sonrisa salvaje]

He wouldn't - unless by some cosmic accident he managed to catch Floyd with something, which is highly unlikely. Better chance he hangs in for the first few rounds, then gets BADLY humilated - worse with every advancing round by Floyd, and loses the decision by a wide margin. It'd be interesting to see Floyd knock him the F out, but agree Floyd will probably be too cautious for that to happen.

I'm not so sure. If Floyd were to get into a position to get Manny out of there i think he may press to do it in order to make a statement. After all, he really has nothing else to prove to anyone other than to Pacman, Manny's fans, and the press who think Manny is better. I feel like Floyd has been hearing about Manny for so long that he is the one fighter who Floyd would salivate over knocking out.

[jhale667]

I'm not so sure. If Floyd were to get into a position to get Manny out of there i think he may press to do it in order to make a statement. After all, he really has nothing else to prove to anyone other than to Pacman, Manny's fans, and the press who think Manny is better. I feel like Floyd has been hearing about Manny for so long that he is the one fighter who Floyd would salivate over knocking out.

You might be right...I expected him to just work over Ortiz for 12 rounds (or until Vic quit), but after the headbutt I think he was like "F this guy." and dropped him. Perhaps he will want to make a statement by kncoking Manny the F out...I'd love to see it. I still think it's telling that 64% of the HBO boxing audience - presumably with a heavy PacMan fan majority - thought Manny lost. He definitely didn't win convincingly by any stretch of the imagination. If anything betting seeing that motivates Floyd even more.