The Black Sabbath - DIO YEARS thread

[DrMaddVibe]

Originally posted by bueno bob
I usually take some fire for this, but I truly feel Sabbath's best years were when Ronnie was at the helm. I honestly think that Ronnie brought the absolute best out of Tony and Geezer as songwriters. The only advantage Ozzy ever had over Ronnie was that he's a better showman...Ron's got him beat on all other fronts (singer, musician, songwriter, lyricist, etc).

"Heaven and Hell" and "Mob Rules" belong in everybody's Sabbath CD collection and are without a doubt two of the best albums they ever recorded, period. Far, far superior to "Technical Ecstasy" and "Never Say Die"...and quite frankly I think they're better than "Vol. 4" or "Master of Reality"...or "Black Sabbath"...

I am REALLY looking forward to "The Dio Years" box set and cannot WAIT to hear new Dio/Sabbath material...God willing they'll write off Ozzy as a lost cause and reconvene with Ronnie at the mic again...we could all be so lucky... :D

YEAH!

[Vinnie Velvet]

Originally posted by Matt White
Dig Dio..Classic stuff...They ALSO should have changed the name of the band....

Well, there is a story to that -- when Tony and Dio started writing songs for Heaven and Hell, Tony thought of it more as a project if anything else and wasn't going to call it 'Black Sabbath'.

But once Geezer came back on board, they decided to call themselves Black Sabbath again.

Of course, Bill Ward returned as well.

There is also speculation whether Geezer actually played any bass on Heaven and Hell at all.

[bueno bob]

Originally posted by Vinnie Velvet
Well, there is a story to that -- when Tony and Dio started writing songs for Heaven and Hell, Tony thought of it more as a project if anything else and wasn't going to call it 'Black Sabbath'.

But once Geezer came back on board, they decided to call themselves Black Sabbath again.

Of course, Bill Ward returned as well.

There is also speculation whether Geezer actually played any bass on Heaven and Hell at all.

To this day, Craig Gruber insists it was all him, but who knows...I doubt that Tony and Geezer would deny it if that was the case, and Craig Gruber has always been Jeff Fenholt-lite in those regards, to me...I don't put much weight behind it.

I do have Live Evil, and it's a great record...Ronnie sings Ozzy's stuff his way, but he does them justice, absolutely. Singing Ozzy's stuff more ominously, in a nutshell...which is good, considering it's ominous material (and having a meaner sounding singer works well with it, IMO, better than a guy jumping around the stage clapping his hands and saying "God bless you", "We love you" blah blah blah, but that's nitpicking on my part).

Production is REALLY thick on the album, I think, but frankly it sounds great and Tony Iommi's got the most moster guitar solo at the end of "Heaven and Hell"....insane....

Enjoy...

[Vinnie Velvet]

Originally posted by bueno bob
To this day, Craig Gruber insists it was all him, but who knows...I doubt that Tony and Geezer would deny it if that was the case, and Craig Gruber has always been Jeff Fenholt-lite in those regards, to me...I don't put much weight behind it.

I do have Live Evil, and it's a great record...Ronnie sings Ozzy's stuff his way, but he does them justice, absolutely. Singing Ozzy's stuff more ominously, in a nutshell...which is good, considering it's ominous material (and having a meaner sounding singer works well with it, IMO, better than a guy jumping around the stage clapping his hands and saying "God bless you", "We love you" blah blah blah, but that's nitpicking on my part).

Production is REALLY thick on the album, I think, but frankly it sounds great and Tony Iommi's got the most moster guitar solo at the end of "Heaven and Hell"....insane....

Enjoy...

Good call.

Its apples and organes really. Ozzy is just a very different singer than Ronnie.

So, the outcome of Dio singing the Oz-Sabbath stuff was going to come out different.

I thought it was 'okay' and didn't really like it all that much (though that was years ago before Ozzy became a buffoon on MTV).

[Vinnie Velvet]

Originally posted by bueno bob
To this day, Craig Gruber insists it was all him, but who knows...I doubt that Tony and Geezer would deny it if that was the case, and Craig Gruber has always been Jeff Fenholt-lite in those regards, to me...I don't put much weight behind it.

I'd even speculate whether even Bill Ward actually drummed on Heaven and Hell also.

By 1980, the rest of Sabbath were just as fucked up as Ozzy on booze and lots of drugs.

Tony was the guy that kept it going, while Geezer and Bill were fucking themselves up on substances (not that Tony wasn't -- just that he still was the unofficial "leader" of the band).

[Matt White]

The famed Ozzy "Manic Leap"!!!




I saw BLACK SABBATH witht the CLASSIC Lineup in 1999...and much like I would expect from a CLASSIC VAN HALEN concert IT KICKED ASS...

Ozzy couldn't hit the high notes anymore...Tony wasn't quite as nimble as in his prime...Bill wasn't the WALL OF DOOM he was as a young man...and GEEZER is the bass-player...what more can ya say...

STILL...THEY WERE HAVING A FUCKING BLAST...which made the entire show a FUCKING RIOT.......

AS GRATE as the DIO era was/is....OZZY & SABBATH created HEAVY STONER METAL......the first 6 SABBATH recordings are ESSENTIAL listening......

[Mr. Vengeance]

The Live Evil album was the end of the Dio era Sab, and the biggest fight occured because for some reason Ronnie wanted his vocals mixed louder than the music. I never understood this, but a lot of singers haven't been able to work with Iommi, so I wonder about the story.

[Matt White]

Now don't get me wrong...I FUCKING LARVE DIO era Black Sabbath...I just think they should have changed the name...they were GRATE enough they could have succeeded without the BS name....I'm sure WARNER BROS wouldn't let them use anything else...much less their THUG manager (The less said the better)....

HEAVEN & HELL and MOB RULES were the a HUGE part of the soundtrack to my adolescent life...

Who could forget the scene in the movie HEAVY METAL when E5150 crashes into THE MOB RULES and ALL HELL BREAKS LOOSE?!?
BRILLIANT

[FORD]

Originally posted by Mr. Vengeance
The Live Evil album was the end of the Dio era Sab, and the biggest fight occured because for some reason Ronnie wanted his vocals mixed louder than the music. I never understood this, but a lot of singers haven't been able to work with Iommi, so I wonder about the story.

If you saw the Dio lineup live, or even heard any bootlegs, it's pretty obvious that Ronnie James Dio's actual live singing voice was NOT what was heard on Live Evil. The entire vocal track was overdubbed to the point where it might as well have been a studio album.

As Tony Iommi put it, at the time, Dio was trying to make it sound like "fucking Barry Manilow".

[Mr. Vengeance]

Originally posted by FORD
If you saw the Dio lineup live, or even heard any bootlegs, it's pretty obvious that Ronnie James Dio's actual live singing voice was NOT what was heard on Live Evil. The entire vocal track was overdubbed to the point where it might as well have been a studio album.

As Tony Iommi put it, at the time, Dio was trying to make it sound like "fucking Barry Manilow".

Were his live vocals bad? I didn't see the tour. Maybe that had to do with the whole mixing angle. He must have not liked his vocals. A couple of years ago I saw him as an opening act for Iron Maiden and he sounded pretty strong that night.

[bueno bob]

Originally posted by Mr. Vengeance
Were his live vocals bad? I didn't see the tour. Maybe that had to do with the whole mixing angle. He must have not liked his vocals. A couple of years ago I saw him as an opening act for Iron Maiden and he sounded pretty strong that night.

From the bootlegs I've seen of the 82 tour, Ronnie was fine; also, as a heads-up, when the '92 reunion happened Tony was asked about those accusations and he admitted "I was wrong about that".

[bueno bob]

Originally posted by Vinnie Velvet
I'd even speculate whether even Bill Ward actually drummed on Heaven and Hell also.

By 1980, the rest of Sabbath were just as fucked up as Ozzy on booze and lots of drugs.

Tony was the guy that kept it going, while Geezer and Bill were fucking themselves up on substances (not that Tony wasn't -- just that he still was the unofficial "leader" of the band).

Bill said in a Black Sabbath interview book/biography my old lead guitarist has that he was the drummer for Heaven and Hell - but on the same token, he wasn't. One of those "he did it, but he doesn't remember much of any of it, excepting the fact that he was hating every moment of it and just praying for it all to be over" deals.

If I remember correctly, the band changes for the "Heaven and Hell" sessions were (not including Geoff Nicholls on keyboards):

Ronnie - Vocals
Tony - Guitar
Geezer - Bass
Bill - Drums

Ronnie - Vocals
Tony - Guitar
Craig Gruber - Bass (replacing Geezer Butler)
Bill - Drums

Ronnie - Vocals, Bass (playing himself after dumping Craig and what he recorded)
Tony - Guitar
Bill - Drums

and finally

Ronnie
Tony
Geezer
Bill

and the last lineup finished the album together. Craig's stuff was dumped (I asked Ronnie about how much Craig actually recorded with them back in '80, in the hopes of finding out more bootleg info, and Ronnie told me they had maybe 10 minutes of shit actually recorded with him...maybe not even that...and then said they got rid of him because he was still in Elf mode and couldn't get into the Black Sabbath mindset and that was apparent from almost the get-go).

[bueno bob]

And, of course, Vinny Appice was in for the tour when Bill quit, which was right about after the album came out...I don't remember correctly, Bill might have done a handful of shows with them, but if he did it wasn't very many...and Tony had apparently had his eye on Vinny Appice for a while anyway...

[Mr. Vengeance]

I'll tell you what, as a result of this thread, I put on my old vinyl copy of Live Evil this afternoon, and I must say, it still pounds! I remember when it came out, there was considerable debate between my metal friends and I about this album and Ozzy's Speak of the Devil, which came out around the same time. Then I liked SOTD a lot more, but I have to say, Live Evil is catching up these days. Both are great!

[bueno bob]

Both grate albums...however..."Live Evil" gets my vote because of Tony Iommi. Trackwise? "Speak of the Devil" is a bit more varied and probably wins out for selection alone...bandwise, Sabbath is far, far superior to Ozzy's. Tony Iommi eats guys like Brad Gillis for breakfast (obviously, it's his own material)...ditto for Geezer Butler vs. Rudi Sarzo...Vinny Appice vs. Tommy Aldridge is a very tough call to make, they're probably matched almost evenly in performance...vocal wise Ozzy's the most familiar (his voice) but Ronnie does a fine job as well, it's really an apples/oranges thing.

Tony Iommi and Geezer Butler give the Sabbath the real bite it needs...distortion, loudness and HEAVINESS that cannot be matched by anybody...and believe me I've fucking tried...Gillis and Sarzo are like a bar band covering Sabbath tunes with Ozzy sitting in for a night. Production wise, "Speak of the Devil" is a bit thin, "Live Evil" a bit thick, so it's really a matter of preference, I think. Packaging, "Live Evil" takes it...killer artwork, nice photos, a good package all together..."Speak of the Devil" looks kinda threadbare by comparison, to my mind.

It's a VERY tough call to make, but Tony and Geez edge this one out, I think. Best bet? Own them BOTH.