Oasis is finished!

[Panamark]

Ah the good old James Page rapes the Mississippi Delta debate again...

Personally I never got into those old rehashed blues numbers,
but I did like Led Zep's originals. Page's solo on the studio version
of Stairway is absolutely mind blowing. Show me the poor old
black cotton picker he ripped off when playin that, and you
will shatter my world.. YES I have heard the 2 bar samples of
other songs that sound similar to Stairway. But that final solo is
fookin ace..... The use of the pentatonic scales, unreal.
Wish I could put that much expression into 5 notes.

Delete all the "suspect" blues copies of Led Zep and I would
be happy... Their best music was their own.

[binnie]

Wow, a lot of hate for the Brits in this thread:

The Beatles
The Rolling Stones
The Kinks
The Who
David Bowie
The Small Faces
Black Sabbath
Led Zeppelin
Joy Division
Iron Maiden
Pink Floyd
The Clash
Sex Pistols...........

We deserve to be hated for the Spice Girls though, but at least America has repaid the favour with Britney Spears, Jessica Simpson and Miley Cyrus......

[Master Yoda]

Reading this thread, made me yearn for some lime juice it has. A couple of limes one of you limeys has?

[Master Yoda]

Ah, the limey myth that ... your myth.

Insult the limeys by comparing them to Portugays, do not. Hmmmph.

[Kristy]

Ah the good old James Page rapes the Mississippi Delta debate again...

Personally I never got into those old rehashed blues numbers,
but I did like Led Zep's originals. Page's solo on the studio version
of Stairway is absolutely mind blowing. Show me the poor old
black cotton picker he ripped off when playin that, and you
will shatter my world.. YES I have heard the 2 bar samples of
other songs that sound similar to Stairway. But that final solo is
fookin ace..... The use of the pentatonic scales, unreal.
Wish I could put that much expression into 5 notes.

Delete all the "suspect" blues copies of Led Zep and I would
be happy... Their best music was their own.

That's the trouble with Zep, Mark. THEIR MUSIC WASN'T THEIR OWN. At least not all of it.

Page stole from the band 'Spirit" (Taurus) for his inspiration on Stairway. Not every one of Page's (obvious) thefts resulted from Mississippi cotton pickers.

[Anonymous]

We deserve to be hated for the Spice Girls though, but at least America has repaid the favour with Britney Spears, Jessica Simpson and Miley Cyrus......

Don't worry. Canada has Bryan Adams AND CELINE DION!

Noone can EVER beat that.

And by the way, Portugal had the original Spice Girls back in the 80's...

Cheers! :bottle:

[Anonymous]

Nah, America's own Velvet Underground had been doing the pale, dark and mopey routine since 1966.

What, emos?

Fuck!

Cheers! :bottle:

[chefcraig]

What, emos?

Fuck!

Cheers! :bottle:

Well...pale, dark and mopey, yet prone to slicing up other people with their switchblades, as opposed to themselves.

[The Elfoid_TFS]

That's the trouble with Zep, Mark. THEIR MUSIC WASN'T THEIR OWN. At least not all of it.

Like I said, the original artists for the blues material (where most of these issues sprang up from) wouldn't have received money if Page did credit them - just their labels. Would you rather labels who had nothing to do with it had gotten the money? I doubt it.

In those days, copyrighted material was dodgy ground. So many artists would perform their version of a traditional song then copyright it that the whole thing was considered impossible to control. Music's always been about feeding off and modifying previous work. That's why when Noel Gallagher got ripped off, he didn't sue - he just said it's part of how these things are done. Very few people genuinely re-invent music, they just put another spin on what they grew up with.

Page doesn't resent the fact that "Still Of The Night" is loaded with Zeppisms.

Page stole from the band 'Spirit" (Taurus) for his inspiration on Stairway. Not every one of Page's (obvious) thefts resulted from Mississippi cotton pickers.

"Taurus" is similar to Stairway. Yes. Very similar. But not similar enough that to deliver a songwriting credit to Spirit was fair. Page just thought "Oh, that sounds good. But if I do this, and I do that, and we add this kinda electric build near the end followed by a fast bit then a mammoth solo, and cut out the synths, and add a vocal line" and by then it barely sounded the same bar that one chord sequence.

I'll also point out Led Zeppelin have acknowledged and admitted to every accusation of plagiarism ever pointed at them. In the case of Spirit, Spirit acknowledge Zep were influenced by them and do not resent the band for it at all. Randy California's made it clear that it'd be nice if they'd thanked him, or shared some of their boatload of money, but he doesn't resent them for it. He spelt out that he thinks that'd be the fair and just thing to do, but at the same time he's aware that technically speaking it's not the same song and that it's not just his music reworked. He never desired to share a songwriting credit or get a percentage, and was perfectly ready to just let it go. Why don't you do the same instead of being angry on behalf of someone who wasn't angry in the first place?

Plus I'd say that's Zeppelin's biggest piece of plagiarism. That one is open to some debate and Page probably shoulda done something. But I'd say it's the only case where I think this, since most of the old blues ones got resolved.

Wow, a lot of hate for the Brits in this thread:

The Beatles
The Rolling Stones
The Kinks
The Who
David Bowie
The Small Faces
Black Sabbath
Led Zeppelin
Joy Division
Iron Maiden
Pink Floyd
The Clash
Sex Pistols...........

Yeah, and I'd add Queen, Judas Priest, Def Leppard, The Buzzcocks, Genesis, The Jeff Beck Group, The Yardbirds, Cream, T-Rex, Van Morisson, The Spencer Davis Group, Wishbone Ash, Wings, Yes, Jethro Tull, Mott the Hoople, Deep Purple, The Darkness, The Police, The Specials, Madness, The Psychedelic Furs, The Pogues, The Cure, The Sisters Of Mercy, Stone Roses, Saxon, Motorhead, Whitesnake (yes I'm aware they became more an American band), Status Quo, Cathedral, Paradise Lost, My Dying Bride...and that's just the bands that have existed long enough to have had a lasting influence, excluding the current ones.

When you look at all that list, it makes me wonder exactly who the many anti-Brit posters on here think has produced the best music if not the UK. Even leaving out people from that list who went on to be huge solo successes (e.g. Paul McCartney, Ozzy Osbourne), I struggle to comprehend which nation they could possibly consider superior to the apparently inferior UK when it comes to music.

Presently I think the European metal scene's where it's at, but historically? The UK were at the forefront of things from the late 50s through mid 80s, and with the advent of Doom Metal and Britpop in the early 90s, pretty quickly took back that throne for the rest of the 90s too.

And all that will be proven soon. Mick Jagger is putting together a supergroup to perform at the opening ceremony to the 2012 Olympic Games. The Rolling Stones have signed on to perform and Jagger's in the process of expanding it. David Bowie, Jimmy Page, Van Morrison and Elton John are already significantly involved in it. A lot of other big names (Brian May, David Gilmour, Sting and suchlike) may well end up involved, but presently they're still figuring out how to make the whole thing work. Should be jaw dropping.

[chefcraig]

When you look at all that list, it makes me wonder exactly who the many anti-Brit posters on here think has produced the best music if not the UK. Even leaving out people from that list who went on to be huge solo successes (e.g. Paul McCartney, Ozzy Osbourne), I struggle to comprehend which nation they could possibly consider superior to the apparently inferior UK when it comes to music.

binnie was being sarcastic, which obviously sailed right over your head. No one is being anti-British here. The rift started between two folks arguing who was responsible for the popularity of the blues in America. The answer being British blues-boom bands, who like the early Beatles merely adapted American music in their own form and threw it right back at them (the American audience).

[Satan]

Didn't Ringo's kid actually play drums for Oasis for a while before he became the "substitute" for Keith Moon?

[kwame k]

Sure did your Unholiness. Killer drummer.

[chefcraig]

Didn't Ringo's kid actually play drums for Oasis for a while before he became the "substitute" for Keith Moon?

To his credit although offered the job, Zak Starkey never accepted the offer to join Oasis, even after playing with the group for over three years. Furthermore, it was due to his skills that The Who returned to their roots as an extremely loud garage band live, at least in my opinion. Interestingly enough, when given the opportunity to join The Who as a full-fledged member, he turned that down as well.

[yah]

I will say this about the limeys and the blues in that when many a blues artist traveled there they were actually PAID for their performances (well, under a live audience that is - until Jimmy Page ripped them off blind. Did I ever mention how much I hate that guy?)

You may hate Page but he was a brilliant player and showman all those yrs with Zep and beyond.
I never heard an old bluesman play a frenzied guitar solo like Page did, as well I never heard them play songs like Ten Yrs Gone, Song Remains The Same or Celebration Day.
He did some great Scotty Moore stuff as well as Link Wray riffs and leads as well.....paying tribute to both those guys and more.
I put Page up there with Keith as being one of the most entertaining guitar players ever in Rock and Blues.
Do you actually play guitar, Kristy?

[Panamark]

That's the trouble with Zep, Mark. THEIR MUSIC WASN'T THEIR OWN. At least not all of it.

Page stole from the band 'Spirit" (Taurus) for his inspiration on Stairway. Not every one of Page's (obvious) thefts resulted from Mississippi cotton pickers.

Totally agree, my point was I only like their bona fide originals.
In regards to stairway I have heard the "Spirit"s side
of the argument. Totally agree that it sounds similar,
but its only the first two intro bars of that entire song.
And note for note, they are not identical. I will give you
that one, but I digress. Tell me the name of the old
black bluesman in the Delta that played the solo at the
end of Stairway ? If you can, I will consider Led Zep as
the ultimate plaguerists.

Led Zep had excellent moments of originality and its totally wrong to
dismiss those masterpieces, even knowng about them ripping off
all that old Blues. Dont care for the blues rehashes they did,
never did, never will..