The Troops "Talk Back"

[Phil theStalker]

I don't know what you don't know that Rumsfeld doesn't know, but if he asks you what you don't know and you ask me what I don't know what you don't know and I tell you what I don't know then you'll know that I don't know what you don't know what Rumsfeld doesn't know and then we'll know that and that's a good thing, baby.

Distrbaing.


P

[Nickdfresh]

Uncle Rummy says:

"Screw you grunt! You go to war with the Army you have, not the one you want! He he, I've been telling that to my Generals for years now!"

[Nitro Express]

I would have asked Rumsfeld "Where are the weapons of mass destruction we invaded Iraq over?" I would also make the point that President Bush, Dick Chenney, and Secretary Rumsfeld might want to crack open a copy of "The Art of War". These three idiots are good at breaking all the rules in that book.

[ODShowtime]

Originally posted by Nitro Express
I would also make the point that President Bush, Dick Chenney, and Secretary Rumsfeld might want to crack open a copy of "The Art of War". These three idiots are good at breaking all the rules in that book.

Very good point. I thought that was required reading!

[Nickdfresh]

More Armored Humvees

Army seeks more armored Humvees
Florida company says it can retrofit 100 more vehicles per month
Friday, December 10, 2004 Posted: 9:24 PM EST (0224 GMT)

WASHINGTON (CNN) -- The Florida company that retrofits U.S. Army Humvees with additional armor will increase production from 450 units a month to 550 by early 2005, the company said Friday night.

The question of whether wheeled vehicles in Iraq are properly armored surfaced Wednesday when a soldier asked Secretary of Defense Donald Rumsfeld about it during a town hall meeting at a staging area in Kuwait.

Armor Holdings Inc. said in a news release it can produce another 100 Humvees per month by next March and is currently 330 vehicles ahead of schedule.

The Army said that until news reports this week it was unaware Armor Holdings, based in Jacksonville, could retrofit more vehicles and so it approached the company. The Army said it thought the company had commitments to other customers, including the Marine Corps.

Francis Harvey, the new secretary of the army, talked with the company's CEO to discuss a deal Friday, a senior Pentagon official said.

Harvey set up a task force to look at other military vehicle contracts to see if more can be made or production increased.

CNN also learned that the U.S. Army Arsenal in Rock Island, Illinois, has been ordered to resume an around the clock schedule to make cab armor kits for 5-ton trucks and fuel tankers.

During the meeting with troops Wednesday at Camp Buehring, Kuwait, a soldier about to deploy to Iraq asked Rumsfeld why more vehicles were not reinforced for battle conditions. (Full story)

"Why do we soldiers have to dig through local landfills for pieces of scrap metal and compromised ballistic glass to uparmor our vehicles?" asked Spc. Thomas Wilson of the 278th Regimental Combat Team, a Tennessee National Guard outfit.

"It's essentially a matter of physics, not a matter of money," Rumsfeld responded. "It's a matter of production and the capability of doing it.

"As you know, you have to go to war with the Army you have, not the Army you want."

The question was planted by a newspaper reporter from the Chattanooga Times Free Press in Tennessee who is embedded with Wilson's unit. (Full story)

Some Democrats charged that Congress has repeatedly gone to the Pentagon about the need to beef up Humvees and had received assurances that the problem had been addressed.

A member of the House Armed Services Committee, Rep. Gene Taylor of Mississippi, called the situation "ridiculous."

"I don't want to go to a single funeral and have to look a mom or dad or spouse in the eye, and knowing that this Congress has gone to Secretary Rumsfeld, for over a year now, saying, 'Fix the problem. Send us the bill.' "

Democratic Sen. Frank Lautenberg of New Jersey sent a letter to President Bush on Friday urging for Rumsfeld's resignation.

"As a former soldier, I can't believe that a secretary of defense would be so dismissive of requests for protective gear by our people in uniform," Lautenberg wrote.

Republican John Warner of Virginia, chairman of the Senate Armed Services Committee, said his panel would hold more hearings on armoring vehicles and that Congress has provided more than $1 billion to correct the problem.

"Since the first day that the Defense Department identified a shortage of vehicle armor, Congress not only has provided the full armor funding requested by the [Defense] Department, it has gone beyond that, by providing $1.3 billion more for additional armor and armored vehicles in 2003-2004," Warner said in a news release.

Lt. Gen. R. Steven Whitcomb, commander of the 3rd Army who is responsible for ground operations in Iraq and Afghanistan, briefed reporters Thursday on the military's efforts to get more Humvees and transport trucks retrofitted with armor.

Whitcomb said 22,000 of 30,000 vehicles in Iraq, Afghanistan and other Central Command bases have additional armor.

Of those vehicles, 6,000 are factory retrofitted Humvees -- 2,100 short of the military's goal. About another 10,000 Humvees have been outfitted with add-on kits.

About 120 armored Humvees have been destroyed in combat, Whitcomb said.

He said transport trucks were usually retrofitted with "locally fabricated" armor. According to a House Armed Services Committee report, however, only 1,100 of 9,100 haulers in the war zones have added protection, the Associated Press reported.

Matt Salmon, president of ArmorWorks of Tempe, Arizona, told CNN his company, which designs and manufactures high-tech vehicle armor, could double its production from 300 to 600 kits per month.

The Army, however, said that it already has a backlog of kits.

CNN's Jamie McIntyre contributed to this report.


Copyright 2004 CNN. All rights reserved.This material may not be published, broadcast, rewritten, or redistributed. Associated Press contributed to this report.


Humvees can be used as scout vehicles, troop carriers, TOW missile carriers or ambulances.
Image

[Nickdfresh]

Military faces complaints, morale problems
Friday, December 10, 2004 Posted: 7:32 PM EST (0032 GMT)


WASHINGTON (AP) -- Troops always gripe. But confronting the defense secretary, filing a lawsuit over extended tours and refusing to go on a mission because it's too dangerous elevate complaining to a new level.

It also could mean a deeper problem for the Pentagon: a lessening of faith in the Iraq mission and in a volunteer army that soldiers can't leave.

The hubbub over an exchange between Defense Secretary Donald H. Rumsfeld and soldiers in Kuwait has given fresh ammunition to critics of the Bush administration's Iraq policy.

It also highlighted growing morale and motivation problems in the 21-month-old war that even some administration supporters say must be addressed to get off a slippery slope that could eventually lead to breakdowns reminiscent of the Vietnam War.

For thousands of years, soldiers have grumbled about everything from their commanders to their equipment to shelter and food. But challenging a defense secretary to his face is rare. So is suing the military to keep from being sent back to a combat zone.

"We are seeing some unprecedented things. The real fear is that these could be tips of a larger iceberg," said P.J. Crowley, a retired colonel who served as a Pentagon spokesman in both Republican and Democratic administrations and was a White House national security aide in the Clinton administration.

"The real issue is not any one of these things individually. It's what the broader impact will be on our re-enlistment rates and our retention," Crowley said.

Several Iraq-bound soldiers confronted Rumsfeld on Wednesday at a base in Kuwait about a lack of armor for their Humvees and other vehicles, about second-hand equipment and about a policy keeping many in Iraq far beyond enlistment contracts. Their pointed questions were cheered by others in the group. (Full story)

The episode -- the questions and Rumsfeld's testy responses were captured by television cameras and widely reported -- did not raise new issues. Complaints about inadequate protection against insurgents' roadside bombs and forced duty extensions have been sounded for months. But not so vividly.

President Bush and Rumsfeld offered assurances that the issues of armor and equipment were being dealt with, and that the plainspoken expression of concerns by soldiers was welcome.

"I'd want to ask the defense secretary the same question," Bush said, if the president were a soldier in overseas combat. "They deserve the best," he added.

Legal battles and disobedience
The display of brazenness in Kuwait came just two days after eight U.S. soldiers in Kuwait and Iraq filed a lawsuit challenging the military's "stop loss" policy, which allows the extension of active-duty deployments during times of war or national emergencies.

In October, up to 19 Army reservists from a unit based in South Carolina refused orders to drive unarmored trucks on a fuel supply mission along attack-prone roads near Baghdad, contending it was too dangerous. The Pentagon is still investigating the incident.

"Tensions obviously are rising," said Anthony Cordesman, a military analyst at the Center for Strategic and International Studies and a former adviser to Sen. John McCain, R-Arizona.

"The fact is that you do need now to consider how to change the force structure: the role of the reserves, the role of the actives. Troops are being deployed in continuing combat under what are often high risk conditions for far longer periods than anyone had previously considered or planned for."

When the war began in March 2003, the troops were predominantly active duty military. Today, National Guard and Army Reserve units make up about 40 percent of the force.

The growing restiveness of U.S. troops in the Middle East echoes a drop in optimism at home that a stable, democratic government can be established in Iraq. A new poll for The Associated Press by Ipsos-Public Affairs shows that 47 percent of Americans now think it's likely Iraq can establish such a government, down from 55 percent in April.

White House spokesman Scott McClellan on Friday said that Bush "is committed to making sure our troops have the best equipment and all the resources they need to do their jobs. And that's exactly what he expects to happen."


Copyright 2004 The Associated Press. All rights reserved.This material may not be published, broadcast, rewritten, or redistributed.




A U.S. military convoy enters Iraq from Kuwait at Safwan border crossing Friday.

[frets5150]

BRAVO great find