Repubs have no respect for animals.

[Warham]

Don't worry, they might be next.

[Warham]

Originally posted by FORD
Funny how Iraq, with NO weapons but a shit load of oil, was considered a better target for invasion than North Korea, with an active weapons program, but NO oil.

No weapons, huh?

Wonder what they were going to do with this stuff they bought from the Chinese? Save it for a rainy day?

Saddam bribed China with oil deals, CIA finds


By Bill Gertz
THE WASHINGTON TIMES

China illegally supplied Saddam Hussein's regime with missile technology and other weaponry and was a major beneficiary of the U.N. oil-for-food program, according to a CIA report.
The report by the Iraq Survey Group also stated that China, along with France and Russia, was bribed by Saddam with oil sales and weapons deals into working to end U.N. sanctions.
One sale took place in 2001 and involved an intelligence officer in Beijing, Abd al-Wahab, who bought 10 to 20 gyroscopes and 20 accelerometers from a Chinese firm that was not identified by name. The equipment was to be used in Iraq's Al-Samud missile program, said a former high-ranking official of Iraq's Military Industrialization Commission, which was in charge of arms procurement.

China was the third-largest recipient of oil vouchers from Saddam's regime, the report said. Russia and France were the two largest.
The Iraqi government used the voucher system to siphon off $11 billion through contracting kickbacks and other corruption in the $64 billion humanitarian program, which operated from 1996 to 2003. The program was designed to get food and medicine to the Iraqi people, despite international sanctions.
China also supplied rocket guidance software to the Iraqi Atomic Energy Commission in 2002 that was labeled "children's software" to mask its military nature, the report said.
The report sought to clear the Chinese government of a direct role in the illicit trade by stating the CIA had "no evidence" suggesting Beijing approved the exports.
However, the report noted that the companies involved were "state-owned" firms that were newly privatized and were willing to circumvent U.N. monitoring in supplying goods illegally.
Chinese Embassy spokesman Sun Weide said China's actions under the oil-for-food program were "totally legal." He also said Beijing complied strictly with U.N. resolutions regarding arms technology transfers to Saddam.
Chinese assistance helped boost Iraq's missile programs, especially in the area of guidance and control systems, the report said, noting that "Chinese companies willingly supplied these types of items to the Iraqi regime."
"In supplying prohibited goods, Chinese companies would frequently employ third countries and intermediaries to transship commodities into Iraq," the report said. "The Chinese-Iraqi procurement relationship was both politically problematic and economically pragmatic in nature, but it ultimately provided Iraq with prohibited items, mainly telecommunication equipment and items with ballistic missile applications."
One of the Chinese front companies named in the report was Siam Premium Products. Other Iraqi intermediaries for the China military sales were identified in India, Turkey, Syria and Jordan.
The CIA identified a major supplier of weapons goods to Iraq as the China North Industries Corp., or Norinco, which has been sanctioned by the U.S. government several times.
Norinco agreed in 2000 to supply 200 gyroscopes for use in Russian and Chinese cruise missiles. It also sold machine tools with missile applications.
The report, quoting documents obtained in Iraq, stated that Norinco agreed to continue selling military goods to Iraq despite Baghdad's debt of more than $3 billion to the company from earlier sales.
The company said it would keep the arms trade secret from the Beijing government, and Iraq agreed to repay Norinco with crude oil and petroleum products, the report said.
Iraq also was in the process of buying chemicals and materials for liquid-fuel missiles from Chinese and Indian companies. The sale may have been stopped by the U.S. military action that began in March 2003, the report said.
The report also provided new details on Chinese assistance to Iraq's fiber-optic communications networks, which were used to "connect static command, control and communications bases."
The report stated that the Chinese company Huawei and two other Chinese firms "illicitly provided transmission switches" for fiber-optic communications from 1999 to 2002.
The equipment was banned under the oil-for-food program, and included more than 100,000 lines and fiber-optic cable, the report said.
Chinese firms also supplied Iraq with graphite, a key component for missile nose cones, directional vanes and engine nozzle throats.
"Recovered documents from 2001 indicated a drive to acquire Chinese graphite-related products such as electrodes, powder and missile-related fuel," the report said.

[Big Train]

Originally posted by FORD
If merely raising the price of gas would force people to conserve fuel, I would be all for it. Unfortunately, the increase in gas prices effects nearly everything else in this country, because everything ships by truck, by plane, by boat, or by train, all of which currently burn some form of fossil fuel.

Raising gas prices is NOT the answer. Getting the goddamned oil industry out of the White House and moving the fuck forward with technology is.

And here's a radical solution - no trucks or SUV's unless you can prove that you NEED to drive one. There's this guy who works in my building. Dude's maybe 5'3" really short dude. I got nothing against him, but the motherfucker drives a F-350. You know, 10 feet off the ground, double axle kind of thing.

Why does he need that truck to work in an OFFICE??

THAT is the kind of wasteful bullshit which we don't need.

And the tax break for SUV's has to end. It was designed to help farmers buy equipment, and it's being abused by the rich. Cancel it immediately.

There's a good start.

Ford, your contradictions at times astound me. You say we went to war in Iraq for oil and killed thousands of our own for it. Yet you feel simply removing the president from the white house is going to change all of this magically? The BCE Congress would still be there.

First, raising oil prices IS the best approach precisely BECAUSE it affects larger markets. It creates an overwhelming demand for a cheaper source of energy. As long as gas is relatively cheap, people are willling to go along wih the program (as obviously you yourself are).

Restricting people's choice of vehicle isn't the right answer. THere is no reason to limit someone's freedom of choice. THey should just have to pay for their choice. You can buy a new Silverado Hybrid for roughly the same price as a regular Silverado. It's your choice how many miles per gallon you want to pay for. Keeping it cheap influences nobody...

[Nitro Express]

There are good oil companies. Shell oil being one of them. I went to one of their oil fields in Paupua New Guinea and you would have no idea it was an oil field at all.

We are going to run out of the cheap oil though, alternative fuels are eventually going to be a neccessety but they won't happen as long as oil is cheaper and electricity is too expensive.

The key to alternative fuels like hydrogen is cheap electricity. This is possible but the environmentalists won't let new power plants be build. The Dept of Energy has developed new low emissions coal burning technology. The US is awash in coal. Did you know they can't even build a prototype at the Idaho Nuclear Engineering Labratory because of the envioronmentalists?

We can't run everything on natural gas, so don't blame the Republicans for all the ills, the Democrats have some blame too.

This country will go to shit and become a third world country with the current stalemate. No electrical generating plants that burn clean coal and cheap nuclear plants, no alernative fuels like hydrogen.

Biodiesel actually makes more sense and can be delivered in the current pipeline infastructure. I'm sure the environmentalists will get in the way of doing that too because to get biodiesel, you have to have a shit load of agriculture and they hate that industry too.

[Big Train]

Which is why I ask libs "How do you want it"??

[Nitro Express]

I hate the term SUV. Let's call the 4x4's. I live where the normal snowfall in winter is 6 feet. The snowplow doesn't always come when you need it and I need a big ass, tall, powerful, 4x4 to get out of where I live. My wife drives a Suberban that get's 15-18 MPG. We try to carpool and we not only bus our kids around but the nieghbors kids. All three rows of seats are full a lot of the times. Now our big gas guzzler in real terms is getting better mileage/person than if we drove two sepparate rice burners. Public transportation is not an option where I live nor is riding a bike. I drive my Harley a ton in the summer and it gets around 60MPG.

I was in Los Angeles not too long ago. The 405 freeway is horrible now. I was thinking while I was stuck in traffic that people in LA could actually get where they were going faster by riding bicycles on the freeways than cars. No shit.

[Nitro Express]

Doing business with China will only weaken the US longterm. They are using the greed of our business leaders to ruin our capacity to produce by having our plants shut down here, people laid off and the technology and equipment exported there. Meanwhile CEO's run the strategy of slapping US brandnames on Chinese goods and pocket the difference. Executive pay in the US has never been higher.

If we were smart, we would capture our own business leaders and send them to the gulag or have their heads removed and take our businesses back. LOL!

[FORD]

Those of you who have the opportunity to see ANWR in it's natural God-given state had better do so immediately. The ammendment to stop this raping and pillaging of Mother Earth failed 51-49 thanks to the actions of 3 DLC shitbag traitors

Thanks to Republicans John McCain and Olympia Snowe who tried to do the right thing in voting for the Cantwell ammendment.

This is beyond sickening

[Angel]

Originally posted by Warham
Liberals bitch about how the oil we are getting from the Mideast is too expensive and that Saudis are running this country, but when you talk about drilling in the barren wastelands of Alaska...Oh, no no, we can't be harming any polar bears now! We wouldn't want the birds migratory patterns to change.

It's a fucking two way street.

Actually, in January you bought more oil from Canada than you did from Saudi.

Barren wastelands of Alaska? Damn, you need a trip up North to open your eyes! They are far from Barren, and drilling does major damage to the ecology - stay away from north of 60 - it's the one place you guys own that you haven't destroyed yet, why don't you keep it that way for a change? All you'll do is destroy the ecology, and still keep on buying your oil from us, because there isn't enough up there to make it worth your while.

[Angel]

Originally posted by FORD
Those of you who have the opportunity to see ANWR in it's natural God-given state had better do so immediately. The ammendment to stop this raping and pillaging of Mother Earth failed 51-49 thanks to the actions of 3 DLC shitbag traitors

Thanks to Republicans John McCain and Olympia Snowe who tried to do the right thing in voting for the Cantwell ammendment.

This is beyond sickening

FUCK! That's all I can think of to say.

[Warham]

Originally posted by Angel
Actually, in January you bought more oil from Canada than you did from Saudi.

Barren wastelands of Alaska? Damn, you need a trip up North to open your eyes! They are far from Barren, and drilling does major damage to the ecology - stay away from north of 60 - it's the one place you guys own that you haven't destroyed yet, why don't you keep it that way for a change? All you'll do is destroy the ecology, and still keep on buying your oil from us, because there isn't enough up there to make it worth your while.

If we bought oil from you, then your country is fucking up it's ecology.

Hypocrites.

[Nitro Express]

You guys need to see some of the high tech more environmentally friendly oil fields. If you want to see real pollution in the wilderness, go to Russia. All the streams and rivers are polluted. Beautiful Lake Baikal is a pollution basket case. Hell in Irkusk vodka is cheaper than imported botlled water.

The last time I was in China, I could taste the air. It had a nice flavor of diesel emmisions and industrial oil.

[Nickdfresh]

March 17, 2005

Senate Votes for Drilling in Arctic Refuge
# Both sides see the action as a larger move toward oil and gas sources off California's coast and elsewhere. Legislative hurdles remain.

By Richard Simon, LA Times Staff Writer

WASHINGTON — The Senate voted Wednesday to open part of the Arctic National Wildlife Refuge to oil and gas drilling, marking a turning point in one of the most contentious environmental issues in the country.

Both proponents and critics of the drilling saw the action as opening the door to other areas currently off limits to energy exploration, including areas off California's coast.

The vote in support of drilling was close — 51 to 49. Further approvals will be required before exploration can begin.

But Republican Alaska Gov. Frank H. Murkowski, a former senator, said he was "more optimistic than ever" that the drilling would occur.

The vote also was a key victory for President Bush, who has pressed for energy exploration in the refuge since first taking office.

Environmentalists for decades have thwarted proposals to drill in the area, saying it would endanger one of the nation's natural treasures and have a negligible effect in fulfilling America's energy needs.

But Bush has portrayed the exploration as crucial to reducing dependence on foreign oil and stabilizing gasoline prices.

Pro-drilling forces seized on the current upward pressure on crude oil prices, which hit a record high of $56.46 a barrel Wednesday. Gasoline nationwide is nearing the record average for regular of $2.064 a gallon, set last May, according to Energy Department figures. In California, according to the American Automobile Assn., regular gas averaged $2.32 a gallon Wednesday.

"How high do gas prices have to get, and how over-a-barrel does OPEC have to get us, before we realize what the American people have realized a long time ago: that we have an energy crisis here in America today," said Sen. John Thune (R-S.D.).

Thune was one of four Republicans elected to the Senate in November who favored drilling in ANWR; each replaced a Democrat opposed to opening the refuge to exploration.

Displaying large pictures of polar bears and caribou on the Senate floor, opponents argued that the drilling could harm wildlife in an area they call America's equivalent of the Serengeti wildlife refuge in Africa.

"Have we reached the point when it comes to America's energy security where we have no choice but to go into these areas that are so important and so pristine and engage in drilling and production techniques that will leave scars on the landscape forever?" asked Sen. Richard J. Durbin (D-Ill.).

Drilling foes contended that tougher vehicle fuel-efficiency standards and other conservation measures would do more to reduce imports.

Sen. Jeff Bingaman (D-N.M.) said that opening the refuge to drilling was "not good environmental policy. But equally important to our nation, it is far from necessary to our energy policy."

In 1995, a drilling measure passed Congress but was vetoed by President Clinton. Although the House has continued to support energy exploration in the refuge, legislation has been blocked in the Senate in recent years by Democrat-led filibusters.

Senate GOP leaders — who previously could not get the 60 votes needed to end a filibuster — this year attached the drilling proposal to a budget measure that can be approved by a simple majority of 51 votes. They justified the maneuver by including in the budget legislation a projected $2.5 billion in revenue from leasing a portion of the refuge for energy exploration.

Wednesday's vote defeated a Democrat-led effort to strip the drilling provision from the budget measure.

The ANWR proposal still must survive a Senate vote on the overall budget resolution, followed by House-Senate negotiations on that measure. Other controversial items on spending and tax policy could derail the budget resolution, as happened last year.

Environmentalists have been encouraged by comments from some members of the House Budget Committee that passing the budget resolution could be difficult. But the addition of the drilling proposal is expected to provide a major incentive for GOP leaders.

Sen. Ted Stevens (R-Alaska) acknowledged the hurdles still facing the drilling plan, but called Wednesday's vote "a big step" toward its ultimate approval.

Stevens and other drilling proponents have said that the refuge offers the single greatest prospect for onshore domestic oil production. But the amount of petroleum that can be economically recovered is in dispute.

Proponents say there could be as much as 16 billion barrels of oil beneath the tundra; opponents say that figure is exaggerated and that the oil would take years to reach markets.

The United States uses about 7 billion barrels of oil a year.

Wednesday's vote was the latest legislative triumph for Bush. He recently signed into law a measure aimed at limiting class-action lawsuits, and is awaiting expected approval of a bill overhauling bankruptcy laws.

Roger Berliner, a Washington energy lawyer, said the vote "reaffirms the strength of the Republican majority and their commitment to take full advantage of that strength while they have it, through every means available to them."

Environmental groups and their congressional allies called the vote a setback, but vowed to continue the fight.

"They may have cleared the first hurdle by the skin of their teeth, but this thing isn't over — not by a long shot," said Rodger Schlickeisen, president of Defenders of Wildlife.

Robert Dewey, the group's vice president of government relations, said drilling opponents would redouble their efforts to rally the public — and in turn put pressure on Congress — to kill the measure.

"The American public overwhelmingly supports protecting the refuge," Dewey said. A Zogby International poll taken in December found that Americans favored keeping drilling out of the refuge, 55% to 38%.

Sen. John F. Kerry (D-Mass.), a leading drilling opponent, sent an e-mail Wednesday to more than 3 million supporters of his failed presidential bid, urging them to step up their efforts to fight the drilling.

Right up until the roll call, lobbying for and against the Arctic exploration was fierce.

Former President Carter and actor Robert Redford contacted senators, urging them to oppose the drilling. Interior Secretary Gale A. Norton and representatives of the Teamsters union called on senators to support the drilling. The pro-exploration U.S. Chamber of Commerce advised senators that their votes would be highlighted on a report card sent to its 3 million business members.

Three Democrats — Daniel K. Akaka and Daniel K. Inouye, both of Hawaii, and Mary L. Landrieu of Louisiana — joined 48 Republicans in supporting the drilling.

Inouye, explaining his vote, said: "I've heard many of my colleagues suggest the war in Iraq is a war on oil. If they feel so, why don't we produce our own oil?"

California Sens. Barbara Boxer and Dianne Feinstein, both Democrats, were among those voting against exploration.

Seven Republicans also opposed the drilling: Lincoln Chafee of Rhode Island, Norm Coleman of Minnesota, Susan Collins and Olympia J. Snowe of Maine, Mike DeWine of Ohio, John McCain of Arizona and Gordon H. Smith of Oregon.

[Steve Savicki]

"Yesterday, we saw a relentless Republican attack on one of our most treasured natural wonders sneak through the Senate on a 51 to 49 vote. But, we also saw more than 260,000 Americans act in less than 24 hours to add their names to our Citizens' Roll Call in favor of protecting the Arctic Refuge.

It was the first time ever that I or anyone else could stand on the Senate floor and announce that, in a day's time, a quarter of a million Americans had gone online to express their passionate support for a given course of action.

That awesome display of grassroots power rattled our opponents. They even railed against my e-mail message on the Senate floor and entered its text into the Senate record. So, think of it this way. The Republican leaders of the Senate have 51 reasons to celebrate today, but you and I have 260,000 reasons to do the same.

If we keep working together - committed pro-environment Senators and a powerful grassroots movement all pulling in the same direction - we can still stop the plan for drilling in the Arctic from making it the rest of the way through Congress. And we can win the larger battle over two very different visions of America's energy future.

George W. Bush and the Washington Republicans have a plan to sell off our public lands to powerful special interests. As a result of their ruthless drive to undermine America's most beautiful natural treasures, the oil rigs are closer to the Arctic Refuge than they have ever been. But, the Bush administration's own scientists and economists admit that the Republicans' plan will not make us less dependent on foreign oil and will not lower prices at the pump. We have to put America's energy future in the hands of Americans - by inventing our way to real energy independence and having energy sources that create jobs and lower prices.

With your help, we will continue to wholeheartedly resist their special interest-funded partisan agenda. And, if we act with the same energy and determination as we have on this critical Arctic Refuge vote, sooner than later, our power and commitment will carry the day. I know you will be with me every step of the way and I thank you for the passion and energy that you bring to our work together.

Sincerely,

John Kerry

P.S. I told you that more than a quarter of a million people signed our Citizens' Roll Call in the first 24 hours after we launched it. Actually the news is even more impressive. As of this moment, there are over 400,000 signers to our Roll Call, including tens of thousands who signed after the vote to express their determination to keep fighting. Let's keep working."

[Angel]

Originally posted by Warham
If we bought oil from you, then your country is fucking up it's ecology.

Hypocrites.

We don't drill in protected areas, or wildlife refuges.