Jesus Christ Landed On The Moon: Fact or Fiction?

[Cathedral]

Jester,
I'm not trying to be sarcastic, brother. It just doesn't appear to me that you have understood much of what i was trying to say.

You think the gospels are fish stories and that i'm a sheep, I do not, and i don't intend to argue with you about it, no sarcasm in that at all.
I used to think like you do, so i can relate to your point of view.
I also know that it doesn't matter what anyone writes in response, you won't see anything differently until you find your own reasons to do so.

If that is being sarcastic, well, that's your perception, not my intention.

[LoungeMachine]

Cath, seriously.....as a friend.

Don't waste your time, energy, or keystrokes on this mouthbreather.

He/she is a fucking moron.

[Jesterstar]

Originally posted by Cathedral
Jester,
I'm not trying to be sarcastic, brother. It just doesn't appear to me that you have understood much of what i was trying to say.

You think the gospels are fish stories and that i'm a sheep, I do not, and i don't intend to argue with you about it, no sarcasm in that at all.
I used to think like you do, so i can relate to your point of view.
I also know that it doesn't matter what anyone writes in response, you won't see anything differently until you find your own reasons to do so.

If that is being sarcastic, well, that's your perception, not my intention.

I've been to church 2 times in two weeks. I've watched and listnened. I heard the gosseple from some of the most wonderful people in the world. I've never fell down. Your not waysting your time as a fat fucking loser as lounge machine would love to get you to believe and then suck your dick to. But that isn't the point. Christianity is not the relegeion that rules the world. Magic and peoeple who love fear are.

[Cathedral]

Originally posted by Jesterstar
I've been to church 2 times in two weeks. I've watched and listnened. I heard the gosseple from some of the most wonderful people in the world. I've never fell down. Your not waysting your time as a fat fucking loser as lounge machine would love to get you to believe and then suck your dick to. But that isn't the point. Christianity is not the relegeion that rules the world. Magic and peoeple who love fear are.

Well, there is another issue all together.
I attend church as well and i take what a preacher says with a grain of salt. Sometimes they stick to the word, other times, most times, they preach from their own opinions and interpretations.
You are correct that a large majority of them lead the congregations, and get into their pockets, using fear.
I'm not so quick to follow along, and i prove what i believe or i don't believe it.
Man is flawed, and the guy who works 9 to 5 at a regular job, then preaches on Sunday has a lot more credence to me than the guy who lives on the church paid for ranch, riding his horses all week and speaking to the people about how the tires on his car never wear out because they are "sanctified".
Truth is, his tires wear out just like yours and mine do, he just isn't the one paying for the replacements.

I stay away from the "Church of Money" at all costs. I seek the truth and follow no man and his traditions for they'll lead you straight to Hell for sure.
Church, in my view, is for Worship.
So many of them come across as a social club with a minimum financial requirement to be a member, that's a crock, and they use fear to line their pockets.

A good preacher, teacher of the word of God will be humble before the Lord.

[Cathedral]

Originally posted by LoungeMachine
Cath, seriously.....as a friend.

Don't waste your time, energy, or keystrokes on this mouthbreather.

He/she is a fucking moron.

It's not a waste, as long as the debate is insightful.
I learn a lot from people and their points of view whether i agree with them or not.

[vanzilla]

Originally posted by Cathedral
Well, there is another issue all together.
I attend church as well and i take what a preacher says with a grain of salt. Sometimes they stick to the word, other times, most times, they preach from their own opinions and interpretations.
You are correct that a large majority of them lead the congregations, and get into their pockets, using fear.
I'm not so quick to follow along, and i prove what i believe or i don't believe it.
Man is flawed, and the guy who works 9 to 5 at a regular job, then preaches on Sunday has a lot more credence to me than the guy who lives on the church paid for ranch, riding his horses all week and speaking to the people about how the tires on his car never wear out because they are "sanctified".
Truth is, his tires wear out just like yours and mine do, he just isn't the one paying for the replacements.

I stay away from the "Church of Money" at all costs. I seek the truth and follow no man and his traditions for they'll lead you straight to Hell for sure.
Church, in my view, is for Worship.
So many of them come across as a social club with a minimum financial requirement to be a member, that's a crock, and they use fear to line their pockets.

A good preacher, teacher of the word of God will be humble before the Lord.

See Cat - what you've posted is exactly my problem with organized religion and I'm glad you called the church out for it.

I've had bad experiences with a church in the past. When I was 14 my mom was heavily attending a Baptist Church. She invited two of the ministers to the house one day. They basically told me that if I didn't repent all of my sins that I was going to spend an eternity in hell. When I asked them - Why would God sentence a 14 year old to a life of eternal damnation when he hasn't even gone through much of life's experiences? (OK, THOSE WEREN'T MY EXACT WORDS, but you get the jist) - They basically danced around the question and told me that the only way to get into heaven was to be baptised, throw out all of my rock records - INCLUDING VH - and basically start going to church every Sunday and read the Bible every day. Do those things or I'm going to hell.

So I took it as a scare tactic. The fact that those spineless bastards had the fucking balls to tell a 14 year old kid that type of stuff is unbelievable! First of all most all 14 year old boys are already fucked up with all the puberty shit going on that they have enough problems. The last thing they need is a repent or burn ultimatum.

My younger brother pretty much alienated my family because he became involved with a church that was overly zealous.

That's why I'm not a Christian. Those experiences led me to do my own research into the history of the church and I learned that 99 percent of what we were taught to believe was mostly concocted by committees used to vote on what was included or excluded in the Bible. Most of the stuff written in the Bible can't be backed with archeological evidence (Moses spending 40 years in the desert with the slaves) or scientific proof (Noah's Arc? C'mon man).

I've always said if a person has faith - I can't touch you. I'm not out to change anyone's beliefs because that is just a waste of time. You're obviously a Christian and I have no problem with that. My problem lies with other Christians who are quick to judge me and others like me because we don't have the same beliefs.

This is a good debate. Thanks for hearing me out.

[Warham]

Actually many of the people and places in the Bible can be backed by archaeological evidence, and even more are discovered as the years go by.

[Jesterstar]

Originally posted by Warham
Actually many of the people and places in the Bible can be backed by archaeological evidence, and even more are discovered as the years go by.

Well Of course they are. The Book is based on actual Physical places. There is however no evidence other than word of mouth that miracles took place. Alot of what Jesus is said to do are acheivable through ancient Magic and even parlor tricks.

[kentuckyklira]

Originally posted by Hollywood Jesus
I won't attack anybody for not believing. And I expect you not to fire back.

Sadly, you´re such a minority amongst devout Christians (especially the internet version) that many people, including myself, switch to attack mode immediately.

Needless to say, I don´t believe in any kind of god but I think everybody´s free to believe what he wants to. Too many people though, resort to some kind of missionary zeal on internet forums. This pisses off lots of people and rightfully so.

[kentuckyklira]

Originally posted by Hollywood Jesus
I'm sure you know this, but I had to chuckle anyway:

I seriously doubt that you have personally tested-to-be-true many of the things you Know. My guess is that you, in fact, read many things in a book. Some of those books were written by thse who experienced your Knowledge firsthand.

I read the Bible like that. I haven't physically met Jesus Christ--risen or not. But I have read firsthand accounts of those who have.


John 20:29 Then Jesus told Thomas, "Because you have seen, you have believed. Blessed are those who have not seen and have yet believed."

Too bad similar arguments can be used in favour of Islam, Judaism, Budhism and god knows what else.

I don´t know if Melbourne is in Australia because I´ve never been there. Nevertheless, and unlike religion, ALL remotely reliable sources come to only one conclusion, it is in Australia. The same is true of 99,9% of the things I claim I KNOW!

[kentuckyklira]

Originally posted by Warham
Jesus said he was the only way, Jester.

You follow the dots.

Jesus made it pretty clear to his disciples to get out there and preach the gospels. It was an urgent message, because so many nations had not heard the good news.

What good news!

I´ll take a dose of Buddha´s teachings over Jesus´ ramblings any day of the week!

[kentuckyklira]

Originally posted by Little_Skittles
Hey guys i know this is hypocritical but how many people could actually write back then? Wasn't it just the rich and powerful aka the government leaders? So i guess it would be pretty easy to turn the truth into what you wanted the people to know.

That is what many believe happened.

BTW, did all of you know that till Martin Luther translated the bible into German it was only available in Latin in the vast majority of the christian world. So most people just had to believe whatever their priest told them to and that was that.

Hardly a method of establishing an unbiased truth!

[kentuckyklira]

Originally posted by Warham
Actually many of the people and places in the Bible can be backed by archaeological evidence, and even more are discovered as the years go by.

Same can be said of the koran. Nevertheless, I don´t see you praying to Mecca five times a day!

[Jesterstar]

Originally posted by kentuckyklira
Same can be said of the koran. Nevertheless, I don´t see you praying to Mecca five times a day!

I beleive that the Koran Predates the bible. But I am not certain on that. Someone please correct me on this. Because I'm not interested in waxing intellectual on something I am not sure of. If it is then I have a relevent point to follow up on.

[kentuckyklira]

Originally posted by Jesterstar
I beleive that the Koran Predates the bible. But I am not certain on that. Someone please correct me on this. Because I'm not interested in waxing intellectual on something I am not sure of. If it is then I have a relevent point to follow up on.

The Bible (at least, most of it) is older than the Koran.