Dean on Jesus, balanced budgets

[Warham]

I can imagine it had something to do with people believing their actions and deeds were OK when they were not OK. People believing they were living according to the good book, when in fact, they weren't.

[FORD]

[QUOTE]Originally posted by DR CHIP
Ford,

In all sincerity and not trying to offend, the Democratic values are WAY off from Christianity.

Here are the Christian values, as taught by the Man Himself.....

from Matthew 5 - New Living Translation

God blesses those who realize their need for him, for the Kingdom of Heaven is given to them.

God blesses those who mourn, for they will be comforted.

God blesses those who are gentle and lowly, for the whole earth will belong to them.

God blesses those who are hungry and thirsty for justice, for they will receive it in full.

God blesses those who are merciful, for they will be shown mercy.

God blesses those whose hearts are pure, for they will see God.

God blesses those who work for peace, for they will be called the children of God.

God blesses those who are persecuted because they live for God, for the Kingdom of Heaven is theirs.

God blesses you when you are mocked and persecuted and lied about because you are my followers. Be happy about it! Be very glad! For a great reward awaits you in heaven. And remember, the ancient prophets were persecuted, too.

These are the values taught by Jesus Christ. These are the values that I choose to live my own life by, which is exactly why I am a Liberal. These ARE Liberal values. I would agree that neither of the two parties upholds them completely, but that the Democrats come much closer to the Republicans, and especially the BCE/PNAC neocons. In fact the neocon agenda is diametrically opposed to most of these values. And if you are opposed to the teachings of Christ, how can you be a Christian?

The Scriptures teach personal responsibility (not a welfare state) and hold a high moral and ethical view (no one can even begin to argue where the Bible stands on homosexuality, abortion, etc.).

This is where right wingers come in with their "pick and choose" approach to scripture. On a typical Sunday morning, a right winger will eat a bacon & egg breakfast, perhaps an omelette with some cheese in it. Then they'll shower & shave, put on their wool blend suit and head off to church where their pastor spends an hour ranting about how bad homosexuals are. Well the same Leviticus which the pastor is quoting from also says that eating pork is an abomination. It says that you will not eat meat and dairy in the same meal. Shaving of a beard is forbidden, as is wearing clothing made from more than one type of material. So if gays are condemned to Hell by Leviticus, then the right winger in this example has at least 4 abominations against him, sending him to the same warm climate.

Now obviously if you held a public rally condemning beard shavers, suit wearers, and bacon eaters to the eternal fires of Hell, you would be in a padded cell by sundown. Yet credibility is given to one verse taken out of context from the exact same outdated, invalid rulebook for a long dead sect of priests.

Why is that? Well, it's hypocrisy. no other word for it. Insecure people just have to convince themselves that they're "superior" to somebody, and the majority of them won't get caught in public doing it to those who are now protected by law.

So who's left? Ah yes, let's pick on the faggots while we still can. And by GOD, we won't let them take away the last group we can get away with persecuting, because if they did that, why we might have to take a look at what's wrong with ourselves.

That is exactly what's behind the right wing homophobia. Not that I believe every right winger is actively looking for someone to hate, but they refuse to question those who DO.

The answer is simple. If someone presents you with something they claim is "Christian doctrine", measure it against the teachings of Jesus Christ. Not Leviticus. Not anything written by Moses or Paul, or any other flawed human being. Even FORD. But by the very teachings of the Son of God which I have quoted above. By "Do Unto Others As You Would Have Them Do Unto You". By "Love the Lord Thy God and Love Thy Neighbor", which Jesus said would cover you on all bases of the law.

And if the doctrine does not meet those standards, then it is not of Christ. And if it is not of Christ, then by definition, it cannot be Christian.


Peace.

[BigBadBrian]

Originally posted by DR CHIP
Ford,

In all sincerity and not trying to offend, the Democratic values are WAY off from Christianity. The Scriptures teach personal responsibility (not a welfare state) and hold a high moral and ethical view (no one can even begin to argue where the Bible stands on homosexuality, abortion, etc.).

I am NOT trying to say that the Republican party is the bastion of truth either, but c'mon the Democrats are way off on many things.

Peace

Thank you Dr. Chip. This needs repeating, not that snot drivel Reverend FORD just posted.

[DrMaddVibe]

Like we know how well those values are working for him when he decides to edit posts, name call and make up inaccuracies but elude they're facts!

Nice try.


Jesus hates hypocrites Ford!

[Warham]

If God thinks homosexuality is wrong, as was what was inferred in the story of Sodom and Gamorrah, then God still thinks it is wrong. God is unchanged throughout history. He's not going to change his mind about what is sinning and what isn't.

Democrats are the ones who pick and choose. Joe Democrat takes his woman to the abortion clinic on the way to church. The pastor talks about the sanctity of human life, and Joe Democrat gives a hearty amen.

[JoeTHUNDER'SMAN]

And who the hell are you to speak for God baby???

[FORD]

Originally posted by Warham
If God thinks homosexuality is wrong, as was what was inferred in the story of Sodom and Gamorrah, then God still thinks it is wrong.

If you believe God condemns homosexuals in that story, then you must also believe He endorses rape & incest. And if that's your idea of God, that's pretty fucking sick.

Fact is that there is NOTHING in the Sodom & Gommorrah story which has anything to do with 2 consenting same sex adults in a long term relationship.

What is implied by the crowd telling Lot "bring your friends out here so that we may know them" would be an act of rape, considering the angels wouldn't be consenting. Furthermore, there's a question of whether angels even have the neccessary equipment.

In any event, God would certainly be pissed off if a gang of lunatics tried to rape some of His employees, whether it was physically possible or not.

But I seriously doubt that God would want Lot to allow his own daughters to be raped, or would want them to get daddy drunk and fuck him, both of which DID actually take place in the story. And then there was Mrs. Lot's extremely high sodium intake problem, but that's another story entirely.

BTW, what did the Gommorrah-ites do anyway?

God is unchanged throughout history. He's not going to change his mind about what is sinning and what isn't.

But the right wing misinterpretation of the Bible suggests that He did exactly that. You believe that God nuked all of Sodom county in Genesis 19, but then forgot to mention it when He gave Moses His Top 10 list. Did God ever nuke any cities for people not remembering to go to church on Sunday? You would think it might have made the list. You might also think, if you believe that Jesus Christ is God in the flesh, that He might have mentioned it at least once in the 33 years He spent on this planet. But he didn't.

All you have as a record are the writings of fallible human beings like Moses & Paul, and even then absent from the cultural context.

Democrats are the ones who pick and choose. Joe Democrat takes his woman to the abortion clinic on the way to church. The pastor talks about the sanctity of human life, and Joe Democrat gives a hearty amen.

Your obsession with abortion is really unhealthy. Should the BCE have you on a terrorist watch list?

[Warham]

FORD,

There's where we differ.

You find the Old Testament and New Testament fallible, but for some reason believe all the words Jesus spoke are infallible. Can't have it both ways, brother.

Moses spoke to God, and took those tablets from God. His writings are not fallible. Jesus spoke of his writings being holy writ.

You pick and choose which scriptures you want to believe. Is that what a liberal does? The scriptures he likes, he takes those and runs with them, but if something doesn't fit, those scriptures aren't part of the good book. Can't do it like that.

[Warham]

I'll get into Sodom more when I get home and have my books on hand.

[Cathedral]

Originally posted by FORD
I would listen to Jesus, but then I know His voice. George Bush Jr, on the other hand, listens to a voice which tells him to bomb foreign countries and murder 100,000 civilians. Clearly this is not Jesus who is speaking to the Chimp.

And it was E.F. Hutton, not Merril Lynch.

Without war, there can be no victory.
Since the days of Adam and Eve, Good has been at war with Evil, the just against the un-just.
You know the voice of Jesus?
That's a lie based on your stand for abortion, and may God have mercy on any woman's soul that has aborted a child.
Just because it's legal doesn't make it right, does it?

I don't want politicians reaching out to Christians because their job isn't to lead the righteous, it is to govern the land and uphold the laws of that land....
If the people want God returned to the schools or our public places that all starts in the home of the individual, not in Washington or in a Courtroom.

The faithful need to stop voting for the lesser of two evils and see to it that a man possessed by no evil at all stands before them asking for their vote.

I'd like to see Howard Dean address a church and take part in a questions and answers session, he'd know 200% that his ploy to get votes will not work.
Bush put on a good show, until last November, now he has no pressure beyond riding out the storm of his Administration.

I for one learned a bunch, I learned that i will never take a politican at his/her word. they will have to prove themselves by their actions, and answer for them when they drift off course.
Why we as a Nation don't hold our politicans personally accountable is beyond me.

Just so you know, there are approximately 35 wars currently happening on this earth. every single one of them has the potential to spark events that ends all our lives.....DON'T TRUST A POLITICIAN, TRUST IN GOD!!!!

[Cathedral]

Originally posted by Warham
FORD,

There's where we differ.

You find the Old Testament and New Testament fallible, but for some reason believe all the words Jesus spoke are infallible. Can't have it both ways, brother.

Moses spoke to God, and took those tablets from God. His writings are not fallible. Jesus spoke of his writings being holy writ.

You pick and choose which scriptures you want to believe. Is that what a liberal does? The scriptures he likes, he takes those and runs with them, but if something doesn't fit, those scriptures aren't part of the good book. Can't do it like that.

That's exactly what everyone does, i've been guilty of that as well.
You cannot find acceptance in those things that are an abomination without insulting God.
Diversity, when described by a Democrat, is not the kind of thing any educated Christian, or Jesus himself, would stand behind and support.

Would Jesus accept someone who admitted to his face he was a gay man?
Not unless he repented for his sins, and he wouldn't just say to him "That's nice" and walk away; he'd preach to him and explain what was wrong with his choice to rebell against the natural order of God's creation.

Jesus wouldn't hate the gay man, but he most certainly wouldn't accept his lifestyle and would definately minister to the man to abandon the path he is currently on.

Oh, but Satan wants all of us to find abomination to be acceptable, in fact, his entire task on this earth depends on us believing that.
He wants people thinking abortion is a "choice" that we won't be held accountable for. he wants us to think it's ok to allow gays into our daily lives as if it were a normal relationship. he wants us to believe it's ok to steal, rape and kill children, lie and cheat each other out of our blessings....Yeah, Satans a busy dude if you ask me.

I feel for anyone who thinks Jesus was in any way a Liberal, and i almost laugh when i hear a Democrat call themselves Christians or any politician for that matter use the phrase, "May God Bless America" after a speech.
Christians don't look to the President or politicians for spiritual guidance, they look to the word, they look in their hearts, they look to their Pastors.

The time is short, and if you aren't right with God you had better not wait or it may be too late.

[Warham]

Amen, Cath!

:D

[DrMaddVibe]

Originally posted by Cathedral
That's exactly what everyone does, i've been guilty of that as well.
You cannot find acceptance in those things that are an abomination without insulting God.
Diversity, when described by a Democrat, is not the kind of thing any educated Christian, or Jesus himself, would stand behind and support.

Would Jesus accept someone who admitted to his face he was a gay man?
Not unless he repented for his sins, and he wouldn't just say to him "That's nice" and walk away; he'd preach to him and explain what was wrong with his choice to rebell against the natural order of God's creation.

Jesus wouldn't hate the gay man, but he most certainly wouldn't accept his lifestyle and would definately minister to the man to abandon the path he is currently on.

Oh, but Satan wants all of us to find abomination to be acceptable, in fact, his entire task on this earth depends on us believing that.
He wants people thinking abortion is a "choice" that we won't be held accountable for. he wants us to think it's ok to allow gays into our daily lives as if it were a normal relationship. he wants us to believe it's ok to steal, rape and kill children, lie and cheat each other out of our blessings....Yeah, Satans a busy dude if you ask me.

I feel for anyone who thinks Jesus was in any way a Liberal, and i almost laugh when i hear a Democrat call themselves Christians or any politician for that matter use the phrase, "May God Bless America" after a speech.
Christians don't look to the President or politicians for spiritual guidance, they look to the word, they look in their hearts, they look to their Pastors.

The time is short, and if you aren't right with God you had better not wait or it may be too late.

5 Stars to ya!