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Thanks SESH. But I don't think intelligence is the problem; I think it's a combo of bind fear and lack of empathy.
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first off we've been over this "guerilla war" thing. it can't be a "guerilla war" when its all forignersOriginally posted by Nickdfresh
So let's see, invading Iraq, spending billions of dollars and getting tied down into a guerilla war, which will ultimately damage (if not destroy) the current formulation of the all-volunteer military as well as our economy, was a good idea based on:
1.i didn't know cbs or usatoday could be considered partisain sourcesOriginally posted by Nickdfresh
A bombing that happened 12 years ago, and killed less than 20 people. Of course your articles from partisan sources will fail to mention to the other Busheep that under Clinton, the US was conducting a little bombing campaign of its own. I am sure we killed hundreds, maybe thousands, of Iraqi air defense personnel along with civilians due to "collateral damage." Not to mention sanctions in which killed 100,000's of Iraqis died as a result either directly or indirectly due to food shortages. Of course I will not exonerate SADDAM in all of this as others do, but we still contributed.
2. it isn't nor have ever been said that iraq was just about yasin. you've also got zarqawi,abbas,nidel etc etc etc all of which have combined to kill hundreds and wounded thousands of americans.
3. the sanctions didn't kill hundreds of thousands of people saddam did and even the iraqis know that:
Saddam's parades of dead babies are exposed as a cynical charade
(Filed: 25/05/2003)
UN sanctions did not kill the hundreds of infants displayed over the years - it was neglect by the former regime, Iraqi doctors in Baghdad tell Charlotte Edwardes
read the article
did you read the other thread that blew that number out of the water?Originally posted by Nickdfresh
And then of course there is the war in which nearly 100,000 Iraqis perished no doubt. Many due to "shock and awe."
would you be refering to the aticle that disproves seshs myth that fundamentalists arabs didn't like saddam yet they took sadddams money dispite hating him? secondly those suicide bombing have killed americans more americans in fact then the embassy bombings in africa. and also some of those groups saddam has paid in the past did things like this:Originally posted by Nickdfresh
And as for the SADDAM paying suicide bombers to hit Israel, I did not realize that the U.S. military was an extension of the Israeli Defense Forces (although some in America's own fifth column, The Israeli Lobby might think so) The Israelis also bear some responsibility for the terrorism that befalls their own country. I mean they are not these historically innocent little victims.
who were there by the way to protect the Palestinians. it should also be said they blew up french soliders the same day
the british did similar things including but london is still standing. hell it was their plan to reinstall the Shah of iran. the germans killed 6 million jews and 6 million other people yet i don't see any jewish or other suciede bombers hitting berlin. israel hasen't nuked duseldorf now have they?Originally posted by Nickdfresh
Israelis did actually displace 700,000 Palestinians through ethnic cleansing in 1948-50...Did they not? Of course the Arabs just used them and never really gave a shit about them either.
those kids are put in that postion in most case on purpose to try to draw sympathy for the pa cause.Originally posted by Nickdfresh
I don't think the US and Israel had very good relations until the late 60's if I am not mistaken. And I think the Israelis are clearly ahead in the Israelis vs. Palestinian body count cuntest, at inflicting casualties. While suicide bombing is disgusting and horrifying tactic, and the Israeli Army does in fact attempt to avoid civilian casualties (in most cases), a dead Palestinian kid is just as horrible at the end of the day as a dead Jewish kid. No matter how they died. Some Americans and a few psychotic "religious" Israelis might disagree with that however.
yet that is one of the things thats used againest us: our freedom. if your were to actually read up on the middle east you would know that most of the things that are pointed out by fundamentalists as reasons why were are corrurpt, immororal etc etc etc is our way of life. our freedom. our culture of freedom. you walk down any street in the arab world one thing they all like is our freedom. everywhere from iran to lebanon. which is why theyprotest for it , go to jail and in many cases are dieing for it. one thing they won't like about our freedom is the ultra left part of of culture the in your face vulgarity and sexuality. they do like our freedom which is why they come here. their lack of freedom is why most people in the arab world turn to extremeism. they have nothing else to turn to. they see no hope of a better life. they think nothing could get better where as in this country anything can happen to you if you want to make it happen and they are resentful of that fact.Originally posted by Nickdfresh
Again, you Busheep see terrorism as some sort phenomena that happens for no particular reason, it comes out of a vacuum because people are just jealous of our freedom.
and were we involved in the crusades? i think so they were well before our time. don't you? were any of these countries our colonies? if those are your reasons for terrorism in the middle east briatin, france, italy, spain,germany , russia shit all of western europe should have been vaporized a long long time ago. those countries like installed all these dictators everyone from the shah of iran to the kings of saudi arabia and kuwait. everyone of the despots in the middle east. europe created the middle east as it stands now. the boarders all the disputed lands its their fault. europe supports all this people yet they don't get blamed for the problems in the middle east we do. we represent the west to many people in the arab world. the majority aspire to move here or have their countries reform to be like us which is why everywhere from egypt to kuwait to saudi arabia people are pushing democratic reformsOriginally posted by Nickdfresh
This shows a fundamental lack of understanding of history (since the crusades), colonialism, and the blatant truth that we are not the totally innocent good guys in all this.
its more like british's fault.Originally posted by Nickdfresh
Again, HUSSEIN was a bastard, and the world is better off without him (actually he's still here), his existence was largely a product of British (and European and even American) Imperialism.
see my earlier point.Originally posted by Nickdfresh
Three separate and distinct ethnic groups were patched together into one state. A very bad and prime example of what has happened the world over. Yes fascist despots have taken advantage of these facts since then, but we never would have noticed the tyranny of SADDAM had he not had large reserves of oil underneath his sand, and more importantly, in neighboring Kuwait.
Originally posted by Nickdfresh
Try addressing the root causes of terrorism, like recognizing that the Palestinians deserve a state too and Palestinian citizens should have the same security that Israeli citizens should have.
yet even when we go to the middle east to protect the Palestinians these are the things that happen:
or even if we're flying through:
or anyone of these:
Apr 18,1983 Bombing of U.S. Embassy in Beirut 63 killed
Oct. 23,1983 Bombing of Marine barracks in Beirut 241 marines more than 100 injured
Dec. 12,1983 Bombing of the U.S. Embassy in Kuwait 6 killed 80 injured
Mar 16,1984 CIA Station Chief William Buckley kidnapped died in captivity
Sept 20,1984 Bombing of U.S. Embassy annex northeast of Beirut 24 killed
Dec. 3,1984 Hijacking of Kuwait Airways Flight 221 2 killed
June 14,1985 Hijacking of TWA Flight 847 1 killed
Oct. 7,1985 Hijacking of cruise ship Achille Lauro 1 killed
Dec. 17,1985 airports in Rome and Vienna were bombed 20 killed
Apr 5, 1986 Bombing of La Belle Discotheque 2 killed nearly 200 wounded
Dec 21,1988 Bombing of Pan Am Flight 103 270 killed
Feb 26,1993 truck bombing at the World Trade Center 6 killed over a 1000 injured
Nov 14 1995, car bombing exploded in Riyadh, Saudi Arabia, 7 killed
June 25,1996 Bombing of Khobar Towers 19 killed wounding hundreds
Aug. 7,1998 Bombings of embassys in Kenya and Tanzania 224 killed more than 4,000 wounded
Oct 12 2000 Bombing of the USS Cole 17 killed 39 injured
Sept 11 2001 Highjacking of Flight 93 crashed in Penn 45 people killed
Sept 11,2001 Highjacking of American Airlines Flight 11, crashed into the north tower of WTC 92 killed
Sept 11,2001 highjacking of American Airlines Flight 77, crashed into the Pentagon with 64 people aboard.
Sept 11,2001 highjacking of United Airlines Flight 175, crashed into the south tower 65 killed
Sept 11,2001 Crash of highjacked American Airlines Flight 77 at Pentagon 125 killed
Sept 11,2001 Attack on the World Trade Center Towers 2,630 killed
May 12, 2003 Attack in Riyadh 34 killed 194 wounded
Apr. 21, 2004 Suicide bomb kills 9 Also 125 wounded in a suicide bombing outside the 5-story Saudi General Security Building in Riyadh
May. 1, 2004 Saudi Arabia 6 Westerners killed in attack 4 attackers entered a compound and opened fire on workers
May. 30, 2004 Saudi Arabia Gunmen 'killed 22' in Khobar The 25-hour crisis ended when commandos stormed a complex where militants had been holding dozens of people hostage
Jun. 6 2004 Saudi Arabia Two BBC men shot in Riyadh Cameraman Simon Cumbers has been killed and correspondent Frank Gardner injured after gunmen opened fire
Jun. 8, 2004 Saudi Arabia American killed in Riyadh Gunmen have shot dead an American man in the capital
Jun. 13, 2004 Saudi Arabia American shot dead in Riyadh
Jun. 13, 2004 Saudi Arabia Militants claim American kidnapped and is later killed
thats and old list i dug uf from and early post now considering what britain and others have done in the middle east their is no way in hell their countries should still be standing
last time i checked the crusades happend 500 years before we came around. if you want to keep saying its because of the crusades go ahead but the hatred of the us has nothing to do with that.Originally posted by Nickdfresh
Then, we might actually win in the long run. It's called "hearts and minds." It actually worked to some extent during the cold war, as much as it was implemented. We are not innocent either. One needs only to look back at the Crusades to see that.Last edited by lucky wilbury; 05-19-2005, 01:06 PM.Comment
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This thread just shows that many liberals hate the country they live in. We are the only superpower in the world, unfortunately, and our imperialistic ways must be curtailed at ALL costs.Comment
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Originally posted by Warham
This thread just shows that many liberals hate the country they live in. We are the only superpower in the world, unfortunately, and our imperialistic ways must be curtailed at ALL costs.
I had no idea that being a patriot meant being a brainless enabler.
Maybe if you know and "love" an alcoholic, you can make beer runs for him until he/she drinks themself to death to show your "love" for them.
If you had lived in there time, maybe you'd have been a pro-British Tory during the Revolution, or pro-Confederacy during the CIVIL WAR. After all, those were good "conservative" values to have at the time! "Support your KING," no matter how dumb of a prick he is!
Like the sort of people that still support VAN HA(GAR), even though EDDIE's a drunken prick making horrible decisions. I've been told at the LINKS that I hate VAN HALEN and I am a lesser fan for not being an EDDIE sycophant.
That I hate my country, or I am any less of a patriot than people who shout out Neo Con apologist slogans is pretty silly.Comment
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Yep, it's liberal rags like Newsweek who run a story without doublechecking their facts that get our guys killed over there. They must not really want us to succeed if they are trying everything they can to take Bush down in a flaming heap. I'm just waiting for liberals to realize it's not going to happen. Rather tried with Bush's national guard service, and now Newsweek.
If Bush can be taken down, then it doesn't matter what the costs are, even if our troops are going to be put into even more harm's way. Their hatred for Bush is their undoing.
That, and 9/11 was really our fault, after all. Let's not blame those poor terrorists who were abused by American foreign policy for years.
And you want to talk about slogans and talking points? Halliburton, National Guard, Diebold, Saudi Royal Family...on and on.Last edited by Warham; 05-19-2005, 01:52 PM.Comment
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First off, they're not Foriegners. Even the military admits that! Only 10% of insurgents are estimated to be non-Iraqi. Most of the foreigners (Saudis, from our friendly allies in the KingdomOriginally posted by lucky wilbury
first off we've been over this "guerilla war" thing. it can't be a "guerilla war" when its all forigners
) Nice myth you are trying to perpetuate btw, Find any WMD's lately.
And foreign fighters using guerilla tactics are still guerillas! (and terrorists of course).
I was talking about the website article clearing house that selectively keeps articles pertaining to their point of view, not the actual sources. You have to admit being a little to quick on the cut and pastes Agent Z.1.i didn't know cbs or usatoday could be considered partisain sources
It was about the phantom WMD's that SADDAM was going to kill off AMERICA with, that was the rationale I saw. We only know Zarqawi because we gave him a chaotic forum, his own Afghanistan if you will, to spout his terror and jihad bullshit. He'd probably be in a Jordanian jail or dead if it weren't for the IRAQI WAR.2. it isn't nor have ever been said that iraq was just about yasin. you've also got zarqawi,abbas,nidel etc etc etc all of which have combined to kill hundreds and wounded thousands of americans.
[quote]3. the sanctions didn't kill hundreds of thousands of people saddam did and even the iraqis know that:
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/main...5%2Fwirq25.xml Saddam's parades of dead babies are exposed as a cynical charade
(Filed: 25/05/2003)
UN sanctions did not kill the hundreds of infants displayed over the years - it was neglect by the former regime, Iraqi doctors in Baghdad tell Charlotte Edwardes
read the article
[quote]
Yeah, SADDAM is an evil cunt. But the sanctions sure helped kill a lot of people, irregardless. We never gave a shit about SADDAM until 1990, and you know it. It's about oil, not justice!
Blew it out of the water? Uh-no...I read a selectively cut and pasted article from one source out of many. One article does not make the truth. Information is not truth. I mean, doesn't FORD's article dispel the myth that only 1,600 servicemen have died in Iraq? Yes, exactly! You know I read it because I stated that I believed neither article you or FORD posted!did you read the other thread that blew that number out of the water?
OMG! Don't even get me started on the day mighty Ronald REGAN PUSSED OUT on the Iranians! The Iranians vlew that barracks! We never did shit about it. I have an article of my own on that one.would you be refering to the aticle that disproves seshs myth that fundamentalists arabs didn't like saddam yet they took sadddams money dispite hating him? secondly those suicide bombing have killed americans more americans in fact then the embassy bombings in africa. and also some of those groups saddam has paid in the past did things like this:
who were there by the way to protect the Palestinians. it should also be said they blew up french soliders the same day
I get back to you on the rest later Z.Comment
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Speaking of the Kingdom, you never did answer my question whether you advocated war against Saudi Arabia when you said we invaded the wrond country. Do you, in fact, feel we invaded the wrong country? Should we do so now. Answer up and do it promptly. Quit dodging the issue.Originally posted by Nickdfresh
First off, they're not Foriegners. Even the military admits that! Only 10% of insurgents are estimated to be non-Iraqi. Most of the foreigners (Saudis, from our friendly allies in the Kingdom)
“If bullshit was currency, Joe Biden would be a billionaire.” - George W. BushComment
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Actually I think I basically stated no; that we should have kicked them in the balls harder meaning possibly sanctions and restitution.Originally posted by BigBadBrian
Speaking of the Kingdom, you never did answer my question whether you advocated war against Saudi Arabia when you said we invaded the wrond country. Do you, in fact, feel we invaded the wrong country? Should we do so now. Answer up and do it promptly. Quit dodging the issue.
We also should have built a larger military complex just to piss Osama off.
BTW, on conspiracy theory re: 9/11 that I DO BELIEVE is that many members of the SAUDI ROYAL family suddenly "died of dehydration" in the vast desert, possibly over 100 of them.
We should have sent more troops into Afghanistan and sealed the border, or at least made it more difficult for BIN LADEN and his lackeys to operate. But we were saving them for bigger fish.
Something that is about likely as an American dying of starvation while driving the interstates because he is too stupid to pull over at a rest stop fast food joint!
The implication is that SAUDI ARABIA was "presented" with a list of people we wanted arrested and interrogated, but the SAUDI's "disappeared" them instead.Comment
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guerilla war is a war waged by indiginous people. zarqawi isn't an iraqi. most of the forieners aren't saudis. it's mostly syrians, iranians and lebanese and its way more then 10%Originally posted by Nickdfresh
First off, they're not Foriegners. Even the military admits that! Only 10% of insurgents are estimated to be non-Iraqi. Most of the foreigners (Saudis, from our friendly allies in the Kingdom) Nice myth you are trying to perpetuate btw, Find any WMD's lately.
And foreign fighters using guerilla tactics are still guerillas! (and terrorists of course).
you didn't even read it. a: its from 95 96 b: you do a search then or better yet go to the libary and look up what came out in ramzi yousefs trial. everything in that article happend. its in the COURT RECORDS that he called iraq. its in the court records look up the news articles on it:Originally posted by Nickdfresh
I was talking about the website article clearing house that selectively keeps articles pertaining to their point of view, not the actual sources. You have to admit being a little to quick on the cut and pastes Agent Z.
from August 4, 1997
only problem with your statements are he was a: in iraq BEFORE the war started b: was already wanted for killing americans http://archives.cnn.com/2002/WORLD/m...ordan.killing/ c: already wanted on charges he tried to blow up hotels that americans were staying in. saddam didn't turn him over in 2000 and he wasent about to eitherOriginally posted by Nickdfresh
It was about the phantom WMD's that SADDAM was going to kill off AMERICA with, that was the rationale I saw. We only know Zarqawi because we gave him a chaotic forum, his own Afghanistan if you will, to spout his terror and jihad bullshit. He'd probably be in a Jordanian jail or dead if it weren't for the IRAQI WAR.
here i'll even use and leftist site that blows it out of the water: http://www.iraqbodycount.net/Originally posted by Nickdfresh
Blew it out of the water? Uh-no...I read a selectively cut and pasted article from one source out of many. One article does not make the truth.
Min 21705
Max 24628
now thats even an anti war site. still want more?
fords article isn't dispelling shit! its claiming that 6,000 servicemen have died. 6,000! you can just check anywhere even antiwar sites that have a far far lower number. fords thing is claiming that the us is covering up 4,500 deaths which is bullshit.Originally posted by Nickdfresh
Information is not truth. I mean, doesn't FORD's article dispel the myth that only 1,600 servicemen have died in Iraq? Yes, exactly! You know I read it because I stated that I believed neither article you or FORD posted!
you would be refering to hezbullah NOT the iranians who blew it up. hezbullah has recieved both money and training from both iraq and iran, they hold no allgence to anyone.Originally posted by Nickdfresh
OMG! Don't even get me started on the day mighty Ronald REGAN PUSSED OUT on the Iranians! The Iranians vlew that barracks! We never did shit about it. I have an article of my own on that one.
I get back to you on the rest later Z.Comment
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Originally posted by lucky wilbury
would you be refering to the aticle that disproves seshs myth that fundamentalists arabs didn't like saddam yet they took sadddams money dispite hating him? secondly those suicide bombing have killed americans more americans in fact then the embassy bombings in africa. and also some of those groups saddam has paid in the past did things like this:
who were there by the way to protect the Palestinians. it should also be said they blew up french soliders the same day
That was an IRANIAN operation! Anyone that knows anything about intell knows that! And we did virtually nothing about it except send in the CIA to torture a few people, to death, in once case at least. But that bomb was built in IRAN and nowhere else. REAGAN wanted to avoid a showdown with them during the COLD WAR.
USAToday
So why did we not go after the true bombers? Because it was not the politically expedient thing to do! But Sept. 11 made everything go boom!
Yes, but the JEWs have a homeland, don't they? One whose right to exist I fully support, and that they should have. The Holocaust was the most disgusting chapter in human history. But the GERMANs gave a lot of support to the ISRAELI's after the war, half of the IAF was ME109s! (WEST) GERMANY has always been a big supporter of ISRAEL, behind the scenes at least.the british did similar things including but london is still standing. hell it was their plan to reinstall the Shah of iran. the germans killed 6 million jews and 6 million other people yet i don't see any jewish or other suciede bombers hitting berlin. israel hasen't nuked duseldorf now have they?
The PALESTINAIN leaders, and a lot of the arab leaders are no doubt scum for abandoning them, but the problem is that Americans are taught to see the Israeli-Arab conflict as one of pure good vs. pure evil, but the Israelis have to give up something for their security, just as they took the space of Palestine for their Homeland.
Poverty and social injustice breed terrorism as much as fanatical fascist murderers like ARAFAT that exploit it, or so the US Army taught me. That is what gave him support to hang on for so long!
Oh c'mon! Those kids grow up in slums with little hope of any future, of course they pick up a gun! Ever met a Catholic kid from inner-city Belfast? I have, and you begin to learn that there are reasons as to why they are pissed, not just propaganda!those kids are put in that postion in most case on purpose to try to draw sympathy for the pa cause
And the little PALESTINIAN school girl that was machine-gunned (20 times or so?) by and IDF lieutenant, was she looking for sympathy? His troops didn't think so when they arrested him for murder!
yet that is one of the things thats used againest us: our freedom. if your were to actually read up on the middle east you would know that most of the things that are pointed out by fundamentalists as reasons why were are corrurpt, immororal etc etc etc is our way of life. our freedom. our culture of freedom. you walk down any street in the arab world one thing they all like is our freedom. everywhere from iran to lebanon. which is why theyprotest for it , go to jail and in many cases are dieing for it. one thing they won't like about our freedom is the ultra left part of of culture the in your face vulgarity and sexuality. they do like our freedom which is why they come here. their lack of freedom is why most people in the arab world turn to extremeism. they have nothing else to turn to. they see no hope of a better life. they think nothing could get better where as in this country anything can happen to you if you want to make it happen and they are resentful of that fact.
I am not an expert on the Middle East. Many of those facts are true, but also exaggerated! TURKEY is a Muslim country, the majority of people they kill nowadays are fellow Muslim (Kurds). Why is that? They even work closely (secretly) with Israel. Could it be that (semi-) Democratic and wealthy Muslim countries become Westernized, while repressive regimes we have traditionally supported breed ISLAMIC Fundamentalism?
EGYPT, PAKISTAN, the SAUDIs, to a lessor extent JORDAN, KUWAIT (whom we liberated only to pop the EMIR back into power despite the fact that resistance groups that actually stayed and fought the IRAQIs wanted democratic reform)...these are all our allies that have had repressive regimes years now. All of a sudden, the march of freedom rhetoric comes in, but I fear that it is too little too late. You mentioned IRAN, which is a prime example! The CIA (with or without the Brits) overthrew a democratically elected but "socialist"
gov. and installed the SHAH.
We could very well have pushed for reform without invading IRAQ while exterminating terrorists. The "carrot and stick" approach...It's what the BRITISH did in NORTHERN IRELAND, and it has worked, to some extent!
The Crusades were before our time, but to the Muslims, they are still living them, just as we gloat over WWII continually (and use it metaphorically), which was also before our time.and were we involved in the crusades? i think so they were well before our time. don't you? were any of these countries our colonies? if those are your reasons for terrorism in the middle east briatin, france, italy, spain,germany , russia shit all of western europe should have been vaporized a long long time ago. those countries like installed all these dictators everyone from the shah of iran to the kings of saudi arabia and kuwait. everyone of the despots in the middle east. europe created the middle east as it stands now. the boarders all the disputed lands its their fault. europe supports all this people yet they don't get blamed for the problems in the middle east we do. we represent the west to many people in the arab world. the majority aspire to move here or have their countries reform to be like us which is why everywhere from egypt to kuwait to saudi arabia people are pushing democratic reforms
I like the democratic reform aspect, but invading IRAQ was not the answer, we should have pressured for reform starting with our allies, then perhaps the IRAQIs would have felt more pressure. In fact, I surmise that SADDAM may have been on his last legs in IRAQ. Do you know what he was doing during his final days before the "COALITION" invasion? he was writing a novel! Even his own Baathists were questioning this and his mental state.
And you speak of the morally degenerate left? I think the real degenerates are people like NEO CON DONALD (Dr. NO) RUMSFELD and his COPPER GREEN operation at Abu Ghraib! What they did convinced far more IRAQIs that we were moral degenerates than any issue of Playboy, or four letter words like fuck, ever did! We fucking went down to SADDAM's level! Just ask the guy who was arrested by HUSSEIN's secret police and physically tortured there, and then by the US ARMY, and psychologically tortured with the stigma arabs put on that shit. He still is shunned by his family!
[quote]
yet even when we go to the middle east to protect the Palestinians these are the things that happen:
or even if we're flying through:
or anyone of these:
Apr 18,1983 Bombing of U.S. Embassy in Beirut 63 killed
[quote]
Those were IRANIAN backed terrorists! And we were involved because ISRAEL invaded and occupied LEBANON in 83'.
Okay, explain to me how invading IRAQ was pay back for any of these terrorist operations...Oct. 23,1983 Bombing of Marine barracks in Beirut 241 marines more than 100 injured
Dec. 12,1983 Bombing of the U.S. Embassy in Kuwait 6 killed 80 injured
Mar 16,1984 CIA Station Chief William Buckley kidnapped died in captivity
Sept 20,1984 Bombing of U.S. Embassy annex northeast of Beirut 24 killed
Dec. 3,1984 Hijacking of Kuwait Airways Flight 221 2 killed
June 14,1985 Hijacking of TWA Flight 847 1 killed
Oct. 7,1985 Hijacking of cruise ship Achille Lauro 1 killed
Dec. 17,1985 airports in Rome and Vienna were bombed 20 killed
Apr 5, 1986 Bombing of La Belle Discotheque 2 killed nearly 200 wounded
Dec 21,1988 Bombing of Pan Am Flight 103 270 killed
Feb 26,1993 truck bombing at the World Trade Center 6 killed over a 1000 injured
Nov 14 1995, car bombing exploded in Riyadh, Saudi Arabia, 7 killed
June 25,1996 Bombing of Khobar Towers 19 killed wounding hundreds
Aug. 7,1998 Bombings of embassys in Kenya and Tanzania 224 killed more than 4,000 wounded
Oct 12 2000 Bombing of the USS Cole 17 killed 39 injured
Sept 11 2001 Highjacking of Flight 93 crashed in Penn 45 people killed
Sept 11,2001 Highjacking of American Airlines Flight 11, crashed into the north tower of WTC 92 killed
Sept 11,2001 highjacking of American Airlines Flight 77, crashed into the Pentagon with 64 people aboard.
Sept 11,2001 highjacking of United Airlines Flight 175, crashed into the south tower 65 killed
Sept 11,2001 Crash of highjacked American Airlines Flight 77 at Pentagon 125 killed
Sept 11,2001 Attack on the World Trade Center Towers 2,630 killed
May 12, 2003 Attack in Riyadh 34 killed 194 wounded
Good! It's about time the bastards in the KINGDOM have the heat turned up on them for their own rhetoric and tolarance for these "religious schools," now maybe they'll be a little more fucking cooperative!Apr. 21, 2004 Suicide bomb kills 9 Also 125 wounded in a suicide bombing outside the 5-story Saudi General Security Building in Riyadh
May. 1, 2004 Saudi Arabia 6 Westerners killed in attack 4 attackers entered a compound and opened fire on workers
May. 30, 2004 Saudi Arabia Gunmen 'killed 22' in Khobar The 25-hour crisis ended when commandos stormed a complex where militants had been holding dozens of people hostage
Jun. 6 2004 Saudi Arabia Two BBC men shot in Riyadh Cameraman Simon Cumbers has been killed and correspondent Frank Gardner injured after gunmen opened fire
Jun. 8, 2004 Saudi Arabia American killed in Riyadh Gunmen have shot dead an American man in the capital
Jun. 13, 2004 Saudi Arabia American shot dead in Riyadh
Jun. 13, 2004 Saudi Arabia Militants claim American kidnapped and is later killed
Britain has done some horrible things all over the world. Probably far worse in AFRICA than in the ME. But it doesn't change the fact that we are the main power now and have to reap what the West has sowed! I mean we are 6% of the world's population, but we use over 25% of it's oil.thats and old list i dug uf from and early post now considering what britain and others have done in the middle east their is no way in hell their countries should still be standing
I am not saying this is wrong necessarily, nor am I judging my country, for AMERICA is a far better country, morally speaking, than the empires have preceded it. But every AMERICAN should know the vast resources we pull out of the global community before they open their fucking mouth about any other nations!
But I also think even the EUROPEANs that post here will tell you they prefer a superpower UNITED STATES of AMERICA to the ruthless, and possibly evilly led, RED DRAGON that is rising in CHINA. I rue the day they may surpass us in military power.
Attention WAL MART shoppers!
Last time I checked, WWII happened 60 years ago, but here's a nice thread on it! We love to relive our glory of beating the HUN, as do the Muslims enjoy yearning for the past they ejected the infidels from their soil. I hear there is a good film about the Crusades out now, maybe we can all learn a thing or two from it.last time i checked the crusades happend 500 years before we came around. if you want to keep saying its because of the crusades go ahead but the hatred of the us has nothing to do with that.Last edited by Nickdfresh; 05-19-2005, 04:54 PM.Comment
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Originally posted by lucky wilbury
guerilla war is a war waged by indiginous people. zarqawi isn't an iraqi. most of the forieners aren't saudis. it's mostly syrians, iranians and lebanese and its way more then 10%
No! It's not. It seems we have little idea of who we're fighting.
A picture of the composition of the insurgency, though in constant flux, has come into somewhat greater focus. London-based International Institute for Strategic Studies estimates roughly 1,000 foreign Islamic jihadists have joined the insurgency. And there is no doubt many of these have had a dramatic effect on perceptions of the insurgency through high-profile video-taped kidnappings and beheadings. However, American officials believe that the greatest obstacles to stability are the native insurgents that predominate in the Sunni triangle. Significantly, many secular Sunni leaders were being surpassed in influence by Sunni militants. This development mirrors the rise of militant Shia cleric and militia leader Moqtada al-Sadr vis-à-vis the more moderate Shia cleric Grand Ayatollah al-Sistani.
From: https://www.globalsecurity.org/milit...insurgency.htm
The same article also states there may be 40,000 full and part-time guerillas (split 50/50)! So it's probably more along the lines of 5% if you only count the full time insurgents.
The foreign Jihadists are on TV all the time, but they are not the core of the insurgency! Ba'athists and religious nuts are!
This is what that site said regarding the disparity:
Min 21705
Max 24628
now thats even an anti war site. still want more?
fords article isn't dispelling shit! its claiming that 6,000 servicemen have died. 6,000! you can just check anywhere even antiwar sites that have a far far lower number. fords thing is claiming that the us is covering up 4,500 deaths which is bullshit.
Some people have asked us why we have not increased our count to 100,000 in the light of the multiple media reports of the recent Lancet study [link] which claims this as a probable and conservative estimate of Iraqi casualties.
Iraq Body Count does not include casualty estimates or projections in its database. It only includes individual or cumulative deaths as directly reported by the media or tallied by official bodies (for instance, by hospitals, morgues and, in a few cases so far, NGOs), and subsequently reported in the media. In other words, each entry in the Iraq Body Count data base represents deaths which have actually been recorded by appropriate witnesses - not "possible" or even "probable" deaths.
So they only count what is "reported" by the media...
Oh whatever! I said I don't believe either article, but I can pull shit off the web that says only SADDAM killed all his own people!
Because we damn well know all of the Iraqi insurgents are foreign fighters (a myth anyone in the military will quickly dispel) and that hardly any Iraqis died as a result of our bombing campaign and the resulting destruction of sanitation services and the like.
sigh....
NO! I would be referring to Iranian Intelligence, which planned and directed the operation, built the fucking sophisticated and powerful bomb, shipped it to Lebanon, and used a Hezbollah suicide sap as a front to carry it out!you would be refering to hezbullah NOT the iranians who blew it up. hezbullah has recieved both money and training from both iraq and iran, they hold no allgence to anyone.
What to debate that one?
Gee, I noticed a contradiction there though, the state sponser of the terrorists get off scott free (Iran) in that case, and those evil Palestinian Hezabollah fanatics are all to blame for the Beirut Barracks' bombing; but Al-Qaida, which virtually recieved no support from Iraq, is only contained in the Afghan/Pakistan border region whilst we invade the country that had nothing to do with the biggest terrorist attack in American (and world) history.
Interesting...
Oh, I am such a liberal America hater!
Last edited by Nickdfresh; 05-19-2005, 05:54 PM.Comment
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the bomb wasen't built in iran. the point i was making is that hezzbullah is terrorist group which saddam has usedOriginally posted by Nickdfresh
That was an IRANIAN operation! Anyone that knows anything about intell knows that! And we did virtually nothing about it except send in the CIA to torture a few people, to death, in once case at least. But that bomb was built in IRAN and nowhere else. REAGAN wanted to avoid a showdown with them during the COLD WAR.
USAToday
So why did we not go after the true bombers? Because it was not the politically expedient thing to do! But Sept. 11 made everything go boom!
and the palestian's have a home land too. its called jordanOriginally posted by Nickdfresh
Yes, but the JEWs have a homeland, don't they? One whose right to exist I fully support, and that they should have. The Holocaust was the most disgusting chapter in human history. But the GERMANs gave a lot of support to the ISRAELI's after the war, half of the IAF was ME109s! (WEST) GERMANY has always been a big supporter of ISRAEL, behind the scenes at least.
yet every peace deal that is offered isn't taken shouldn't that tell you something. for the most part it is a battle of good vs evil. the isralis do their best to avoid hiting civilains yet the other side targets them and has targeted them including americans in the past.Originally posted by Nickdfresh
The PALESTINAIN leaders, and a lot of the arab leaders are no doubt scum for abandoning them, but the problem is that Americans are taught to see the Israeli-Arab conflict as one of pure good vs. pure evil, but the Israelis have to give up something for their security, just as they took the space of Palestine for their Homeland.
yet in one of the richest areas of the world it is also the poorest. in the middle east they turn to terrorism againest israel because anywhere you go from the poorest of the poor town in saudi arabia to a poor town in syria that it is israels fault. get rid of the jews and all will be okOriginally posted by Nickdfresh
Poverty and social injustice breed terrorism as much as fanatical fascist murderers like ARAFAT that exploit it, or so the US Army taught me. That is what gave him support to hang on for so long!
Oh c'mon! Those kids grow up in slums with little hope of any future, of course they pick up a gun! Ever met a Catholic kid from inner-city Belfast? I have, and you begin to learn that there are reasons as to why they are pissed, not just propaganda!
that is the extremly rare case. what about when hamas and hezbullah use the kids as human sheilds? when they stage a kids shooting for propaganda? look up Mohammed al-Dura staged shooting you pick what ever site and you can read all about itOriginally posted by Nickdfresh
And the little PALESTINIAN school girl that was machine-gunned (20 times or so?) by and IDF lieutenant, was she looking for sympathy? His troops didn't think so when they arrested him for murder!
Originally posted by Nickdfresh
I am not an expert on the Middle East. Many of those facts are true, but also exaggerated! TURKEY is a Muslim country, the majority of people they kill nowadays are fellow Muslim (Kurds). Why is that? They even work closely (secretly) with Israel. Could it be that (semi-) Democratic and wealthy Muslim countries become Westernized, while repressive regimes we have traditionally supported breed ISLAMIC Fundamentalism?
EGYPT, PAKISTAN, the SAUDIs, to a lessor extent JORDAN, KUWAIT (whom we liberated only to pop the EMIR back into power despite the fact that resistance groups that actually stayed and fought the IRAQIs wanted democratic reform)...these are all our allies that have had repressive regimes years now. All of a sudden, the march of freedom rhetoric comes in, but I fear that it is too little too late. You mentioned IRAN, which is a prime example! The CIA (with or without the Brits) overthrew a democratically elected but "socialist" gov. and installed the SHAH.
iran isn't "socialist" by any stretch. all those countries weren't encouraged to reform before now but now they are and its better late then never
no way. anytime any progress would have been made saddam would have paid for a suciede bombing to stir shit up again. you'll notice all this progress is being made in the middle east both in the peace process and elsewhere post saddamOriginally posted by Nickdfresh
We could very well have pushed for reform without invading IRAQ while exterminating terrorists. The "carrot and stick" approach...It's what the BRITISH did in NORTHERN IRELAND, and it has worked, to some extent!
i've meet people who fought in ww2 never meet anyone who fought in the crusades which is why its still relevent. the particpants are still around to talk about it. not to many other wars are discused.Originally posted by Nickdfresh
The Crusades were before our time, but to the Muslims, they are still living them, just as we gloat over WWII continually (and use it metaphorically), which was also before our time.
iraq would have never fallen. even after the gulf war with all that heat he didn't fall.Originally posted by Nickdfresh
I like the democratic reform aspect, but invading IRAQ was not the answer, we should have pressured for reform starting with our allies, then perhaps the IRAQIs would have felt more pressure. In fact, I surmise that SADDAM may have been on his last legs in IRAQ. Do you know what he was doing during his final days before the "COALITION" invasion? he was writing a novel! Even his own Baathists were questioning this and his mental state.
first off there was no operation at abu ghrab and before you start quoting seymour hersh look up the article he wrote about our failing attack on the taliban and how we were losing guys daily.actually here to read about the mistakes http://slate.msn.com/id/2058474/ better yet see if you can find the interview he gave where he said 200+ special forces and regular military were killed in the first weeks of the afghan war and 15 were taken hostage by al queda a claim even sesh dismissed . that interview has nothing to do with the failing attack on the taliban article. it was an interview a few months later in europe. thrid in reality you really think that that there was some sort of program being run there by a: national guard people b: untrained national guard people c:untrained national guardmens who by her own admission is partically retarded? you really think the miltary would trust them to gather intel? all that "abuse" was a couple of morons who now had a little bit of power over people and abused it. happens in every prison all over the world.Originally posted by Nickdfresh
And you speak of the morally degenerate left? I think the real degenerates are people like NEO CON DONALD (Dr. NO) RUMSFELD and his COPPER GREEN operation at Abu Ghraib! What they did convinced far more IRAQIs that we were moral degenerates than any issue of Playboy, or four letter words like fuck, ever did! We fucking went down to SADDAM's level! Just ask the guy who was arrested by HUSSEIN's secret police and physically tortured there, and then by the US ARMY, and psychologically tortured with the stigma arabs put on that shit. He still is shunned by his family!
back to the point people in the middle east don't like our values? in egypt they banned van halen!
Dec. 12,1983 Bombing of the U.S. Embassy in Kuwait 6 killed 80 injuredOriginally posted by Nickdfresh
Okay, explain to me how invading IRAQ was pay back for any of these terrorist operations...
was carried out by shite bombers based in iraq
April 18, Beirut, Lebanon: U.S. embassy destroyed in suicide car-bomb attack; 63 dead, including 17 Americans. The Islamic Jihad claimed responsibility
islmaic jihad have in the past used wester iraq as a base
Oct. 7,1985 Hijacking of cruise ship Achille Lauro 1 killed
mastermind abu abbas was caught in iraq he later died in us custody
Dec. 17,1985 airports in Rome and Vienna were bombed 20 killed
masterminded by abu nidal who "committed sucide" in baghdad in 2002
and several others of those are tied to groups that did buisness with saddam in the past
forget about oil. if the west should reap what it sowed those countries involved should be targeted not us.Originally posted by Nickdfresh
Britain has done some horrible things all over the world. Probably far worse in AFRICA than in the ME. But it doesn't change the fact that we are the main power now and have to reap what the West has sowed! I mean we are 6% of the world's population, but we use over 25% of it's oil.
we are the worlds number one supplier of humanitarian and finacial aid. hell we give more to fight aids in africa then the rest of the world combined.Originally posted by Nickdfresh
I am not saying this is wrong necessarily, nor am I judging my country, for AMERICA is a far better country, morally speaking, than the empires have preceded it. But every AMERICAN should know the vast resources we pull out of the global community before they open their fucking mouth about any other nations!
europe will make any deal with any country. they never stop anything or anyone. they let germany role over most of europe without even saying hey you cant do that!Originally posted by Nickdfresh
But I also think even the EUROPEANs that post here will tell you they prefer a superpower UNITED STATES of AMERICA to the ruthless, and possibly evilly led, RED DRAGON that is rising in CHINA. I rue the day they may surpass us in military power.
Attention WAL MART shoppers!
see my earlier point on thisOriginally posted by Nickdfresh
Last time I checked, WWII happened 60 years ago, but here's a nice thread on it! We love to relive our glory of beating the HUN, as do the Muslims enjoy yearning for the past they ejected the infidels from their soil. I hear there is a good film about the Crusades out now, maybe we can all learn a thing or two from it.
most of the relious nuts are foriegn which is why there is an increase of sucide bombings. the only record of local iraqis doing suicide bombings have shown that they have literally been chained to the wheel and told to delvier the bomb and their families who most of the time are hostages are released. iraqis aren't eger to die and gulf war one and gulf two show that.Originally posted by Nickdfresh
No! It's not. It seems we have little idea of who we're fighting.
A picture of the composition of the insurgency, though in constant flux, has come into somewhat greater focus. London-based International Institute for Strategic Studies estimates roughly 1,000 foreign Islamic jihadists have joined the insurgency. And there is no doubt many of these have had a dramatic effect on perceptions of the insurgency through high-profile video-taped kidnappings and beheadings. However, American officials believe that the greatest obstacles to stability are the native insurgents that predominate in the Sunni triangle. Significantly, many secular Sunni leaders were being surpassed in influence by Sunni militants. This development mirrors the rise of militant Shia cleric and militia leader Moqtada al-Sadr vis-à-vis the more moderate Shia cleric Grand Ayatollah al-Sistani.
From: https://www.globalsecurity.org/milit...insurgency.htm
The same article also states there may be 40,000 full and part-time guerillas (split 50/50)! So it's probably more along the lines of 5% if you only count the full time insurgents.
The foreign Jihadists are on TV all the time, but they are not the core of the insurgency! Ba'athists and religious nuts are!
and the media reports what the hospitals say. the 100,000 is a guess that someone made to even use that number is a joke.Originally posted by Nickdfresh
This is what that site said regarding the disparity:
Some people have asked us why we have not increased our count to 100,000 in the light of the multiple media reports of the recent Lancet study [link] which claims this as a probable and conservative estimate of Iraqi casualties.
Iraq Body Count does not include casualty estimates or projections in its database. It only includes individual or cumulative deaths as directly reported by the media or tallied by official bodies (for instance, by hospitals, morgues and, in a few cases so far, NGOs), and subsequently reported in the media. In other words, each entry in the Iraq Body Count data base represents deaths which have actually been recorded by appropriate witnesses - not "possible" or even "probable" deaths.
So they only count what is "reported" by the media...
well he was the best at itOriginally posted by Nickdfresh
Oh whatever! I said I don't believe either article, but I can pull shit off the web that says only SADDAM killed all his own people!
there was no sanitation to begin with. we do our best to avoid civilin casualties.Originally posted by Nickdfresh
Because we damn well know all of the Iraqi insurgents are foreign fighters (a myth anyone in the military will quickly dispel) and that hardly any Iraqis died as a result of our bombing campaign and the resulting destruction of sanitation services and the like.
sigh....
i brought it up because saddam has worked with hezbullah. he worked with anyone that was out there . and the 80's were a completly different time for how we dealt with terrorists.Originally posted by Nickdfresh
NO! I would be referring to Iranian Intelligence, which planned and directed the operation, built the fucking sophisticated and powerful bomb, shipped it to Lebanon, and used a Hezbollah suicide sap as a front to carry it out!
What to debate that one?
Gee, I noticed a contradiction there though, the state sponser of the terrorists get off scott free (Iran) in that case, and those evil Palestinian Hezabollah fanatics are all to blame for the Beirut Barracks' bombing; but Al-Qaida, which virtually recieved no support from Iraq, is only contained in the Afghan/Pakistan border region whilst we invade the country that had nothing to do with the biggest terrorist attack in American (and world) history.
so you admit itOriginally posted by Nickdfresh
Interesting...
Oh, I am such a liberal America hater!
Last edited by lucky wilbury; 05-19-2005, 07:21 PM.Comment
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Yes it was built in Iran.Originally posted by lucky wilbury
[B]the bomb wasen't built in iran. the point i was making is that hezzbullah is terrorist group which saddam has used
Here we go...It's all the Palestinians fault. 'Get the fuck out you stinky arab, Jordan is your new home.'and the palestian's have a home land too. its called jordan
Yeah, here's a plate of shit boys, eat up! And there are cases where the Israelis don't mind adding to the suffering in there little war of attrition. But the death toll of civilians is still higher on the Palestinian side.yet every peace deal that is offered isn't taken shouldn't that tell you something. for the most part it is a battle of good vs evil. the isralis do their best to avoid hiting civilains yet the other side targets them and has targeted them including americans in the past.
Because their Pan-Arab nationalist/Islamic fascist governments use Israel as the panacea for all their problems, granted.yet in one of the richest areas of the world it is also the poorest. in the middle east they turn to terrorism againest israel because anywhere you go from the poorest of the poor town in saudi arabia to a poor town in syria that it is israels fault. get rid of the jews and all will be ok
The Israelis of course feed this by building walls thrrough territories earmarked for Palestinian territory and sending their extremist settlers to build new kibbitzes in a sea of arabs. But I think the majority of Israelis might be getting fed up with paying enormous security cost. I know Americans should goddamn well be!
I think that is also a rare case. Mohammed al-Dura and that cunt of a IDF lieutenant have much in common.that is the extremly rare case. what about when hamas and hezbullah use the kids as human sheilds? when they stage a kids shooting for propaganda? look up Mohammed al-Dura staged shooting you pick what ever site and you can read all about it
Was Z, pay attention. I meant WAS a democratic socialist gov't before the Langley boys thought we'd get a better deal by installing an asshole emperor. Took a few years, but it had quite disastrous consequences.iran isn't "socialist" by any stretch. all those countries weren't encouraged to reform before now but now they are and its better late then never
I guess Arafat's death had nothing to do with it?no way. anytime any progress would have been made saddam would have paid for a suciede bombing to stir shit up again. you'll notice all this progress is being made in the middle east both in the peace process and elsewhere post saddam
And it's too early to judge the long term affects. Lebanon is a great thing I'll grant you, but it was more of a case of Syrian intelligence being really, really stupid than a spontaneous uprising.
Me too. But it is still history. And anyone who knows anything about that region will tell you the crusades still resonate. Only stupid people would ignore that fact, like, um well... (W.)i've meet people who fought in ww2 never meet anyone who fought in the crusades which is why its still relevent. the particpants are still around to talk about it. not to many other wars are discused.
He was losing his mind. It was a matter of time. Would the next set of bastards been any better? Who knows? but SADDAM dying or being overthrown would have had a ripple effect of it's own.iraq would have never fallen. even after the gulf war with all that heat he didn't fall.
Meanwhile Kim Jong Il walks free....
I don't know about HERSH's other stuff. But I do know that there is sound evidence for what he says, including a book that was written in the 70's regarding the sexual humiliation of Arab men and how they could be blackmailed, even destroyed using such humiliating routines implying homosexuality or sexual submission to a woman.first off there was no operation at abu ghrab and before you start quoting seymour hersh look up the article he wrote about our failing attack on the taliban and how we were losing guys daily.actually here to read about the mistakes http://slate.msn.com/id/2058474/ better yet see if you can find the interview he gave where he said 200+ special forces and regular military were killed in the first weeks of the afghan war and 15 were taken hostage by al queda a claim even sesh dismissed . that interview has nothing to do with the failing attack on the taliban article. it was an interview a few months later in europe. thrid in reality you really think that that there was some sort of program being run there by a: national guard people b: untrained national guard people c:untrained national guardmens who by her own admission is partically retarded? you really think the miltary would trust them to gather intel? all that "abuse" was a couple of morons who now had a little bit of power over people and abused it. happens in every prison all over the world.
back to the point people in the middle east don't like our values? in egypt they banned van halen!
Pretty tough for a bunch of hick Nat'l Guard MP's, eh? And actually many "conservatives" are crying foul regarding how the investigation was cut off at the lower ranks, and it was a little funny that there seemed to be a large military intelligence presense at the prison that as well, that was never interviewed or saw anything.
In fact the hicks made perfect scapegoats for that reason alone.
I have heard that Iraq is one of the largest consumers of porn!:D
Yes, most of the suicide bombers are indeed foreign I heard, they are untrained, expendible dolts mainly from the Kingdom of Saudi Suicide bombers.most of the relious nuts are foriegn which is why there is an increase of sucide bombings. the only record of local iraqis doing suicide bombings have shown that they have literally been chained to the wheel and told to delvier the bomb and their families who most of the time are hostages are released. iraqis aren't eger to die and gulf war one and gulf two show that.
And yes, some Iraqis are extorted into it, I actually posted an article.
But the trained hardcore insurgents won't kill themselves to detonate a car near some troops to maybe score a hit. The fact they use others shows how smart they are.
And funny, those insurgents seem to be very tenacious and adapt their tactics well. Paint them as cowards all you want, but your either delusional or lying, 'cause I know you're not dum.
Why? Because you say so. Actually I don't think it's quite that high. We'll never know for sure, but it's much higher that 24,000 for reasons previously stated. We could even split the difference.and the media reports what the hospitals say. the 100,000 is a guess that someone made to even use that number is a joke.
True, but we caught on quick.well he was the best at it
Oh, a mere semantical blurb that is supposed to justify this massive invasion. One more little trivial incident in the Neo Con fact book of rationalizations when no WMD's are found. SADDAM once did this..blah blah...there was no sanitation to begin with. we do our best to avoid civilin casualties.
i brought it up because saddam has worked with hezbullah. he worked with anyone that was out there . and the 80's were a completly different time for how we dealt with terrorists.
Whatever! Qaddafi killed 300 civilians at Lockerbie, I knew one of them. When do we invade Libya and kill 24k-100k Libyan civilians in response?
Well I was being ironical. I served and pay my taxes without bitching. I have a right to critique.so you admit it
I find it interesting when flag waiving conservatives never serve in the military, and bitch about income taxes. It's great to be an American without really making any sacrifices. I think John Fogerty put it best:
Some folks are born made to wave the flag,
ooh, they're red, white and blue.
And when the band plays "Hail To The Chief",
oh, they point the cannon at you, Lord,
It ain't me, it ain't me,
I ain't no senator's son,
It ain't me, it ain't me,
I ain't no fortunate one, no,
Some folks are born silver spoon in hand,
Lord, don't they help themselves, oh.
But when the taxman come to the door,
Lord, the house look a like a rummage sale, yes,
It ain't me, it ain't me,
I ain't no millionaire's son.
It ain't me, it ain't me,
I ain't no fortunate one, no.
Yeh, some folks inherit star spangled eyes,
ooh, they send you down to war, Lord,
And when you ask them, how much should we give,
oh, they only answer, more, more, more, yoh,
It ain't me, it ain't me,
I ain't no military son,
It ain't me, it ain't me,
I ain't no fortunate one,
It ain't me, it ain't me,
I ain't no fortunate one, no no no,
It ain't me, it ain't me,
I ain't no fortunate son, no no no,
- John C, FogertyLast edited by Nickdfresh; 05-19-2005, 08:23 PM.Comment
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well when you consider what is today know as jordan was set up as the new home land for the palestinians and is almost 90% palestinian and is where most now live.Originally posted by Nickdfresh
Yes it was built in Iran
Here we go...It's all the Palestinians fault. 'Get the fuck out you stinky arab, Jordan is your new home.'
arafat was offer 90% percent of what he wanted and balked at it that should tell you somethingOriginally posted by Nickdfresh
Yeah, here's a plate of shit boys, eat up! And there are cases where the Israelis don't mind adding to the suffering in there little war of attrition. But the death toll of civilians is still higher on the Palestinian side.
the israels are doing their best to protect their people. you'll notice the number of suiciede bombings has gone down since the wall was builtOriginally posted by Nickdfresh
Because their Pan-Arab nationalist/Islamic fascist governments use Israel as the panacea for all their problems, granted.
The Israelis of course feed this by building walls thrrough territories earmarked for Palestinian territory and sending their extremist settlers to build new kibbitzes in a sea of arabs. But I think the majority of Israelis might be getting fed up with paying enormous security cost. I know Americans should goddamn well be!
iran was monarchy before the shah was installed in 1953 they never had a democracy. the people today want one but have yet to have oneOriginally posted by Nickdfresh
Was Z, pay attention. I meant WAS a democratic socialist gov't before the Langley boys thought we'd get a better deal by installing an asshole emperor. Took a few years, but it had quite disastrous consequences.
that unrest was there. the death of hari brought it to the surface but its been there for awhile. same with iran. there is a huge amount of unrest over the lack of a democracy that flares up and will again.... soon.Originally posted by Nickdfresh
I guess Arafat's death had nothing to do with it?
And it's too early to judge the long term affects. Lebanon is a great thing I'll grant you, but it was more of a case of Syrian intelligence being really, really stupid than a spontaneous uprising.
crazy people are the most unpredictable. he would have killed his own kids if he thought they were acting againest himOriginally posted by Nickdfresh
Me too. But it is still history. And anyone who knows anything about that region will tell you the crusades still resonate. Only stupid people would ignore that fact, like, um well... (W.)
He was losing his mind. It was a matter of time. Would the next set of bastards been any better? Who knows? but SADDAM dying or being overthrown would have had a ripple effect of it's own.
Originally posted by Nickdfresh
Meanwhile Kim Jong Il walks free....
not for all that much longer
i don't consider what those mps did as all that tough and as far as an investigation goes with all the interviews i've seen these guys give all they say is "i was just following orders" the follow up? who gave the order? "i don't know." they weren't ordered to do shit otherwise they would be ratting out anyone and everyoneOriginally posted by Nickdfresh
I don't know about HERSH's other stuff. But I do know that there is sound evidence for what he says, including a book that was written in the 70's regarding the sexual humiliation of Arab men and how they could be blackmailed, even destroyed using such humiliating routines implying homosexuality or sexual submission to a woman.
Pretty tough for a bunch of hick Nat'l Guard MP's, eh? And actually many "conservatives" are crying foul regarding how the investigation was cut off at the lower ranks, and it was a little funny that there seemed to be a large military intelligence presense at the prison that as well, that was never interviewed or saw anything.
they weren't made scapegoats. they got caught being stupidOriginally posted by Nickdfresh
In fact the hicks made perfect scapegoats for that reason alone.
I have heard that Iraq is one of the largest consumers of porn!
i didn't paint them as cowards. the tatics they are employing are the same ones used in chechnya. from the propganda side of it right down to the board layouts they use for their ied's.Originally posted by Nickdfresh
Yes, most of the suicide bombers are indeed foreign I heard, they are untrained, expendible dolts mainly from the Kingdom of Saudi Suicide bombers.
And yes, some Iraqis are extorted into it, I actually posted an article.
But the trained hardcore insurgents won't kill themselves to detonate a car near some troops to maybe score a hit. The fact they use others shows how smart they are.
And funny, those insurgents seem to be very tenacious and adapt their tactics well. Paint them as cowards all you want, but your either delusional or lying, 'cause I know you're not dum.
if there were 100,000 dead thats comes out to be 1,000 per week then we would be talking ww2 numbers.Originally posted by Nickdfresh
Why? Because you say so. Actually I don't think it's quite that high. We'll never know for sure, but it's much higher that 24,000 for reasons previously stated. We could even split the difference.
i know of no time where we put people through woodchippersOriginally posted by Nickdfresh
True, but we caught on quick
i've wanted saddam gone for a long long time. even before clinton bombed iraq over wmd and his ties to terrorismOriginally posted by Nickdfresh
Oh, a mere semantical blurb that is supposed to justify this massive invasion. One more little trivial incident in the Neo Con fact book of rationalizations when no WMD's are found. SADDAM once did this..blah blah...
and you'll notice since the iraq war he's cleaned up his act dramtically.Originally posted by Nickdfresh
Whatever! Qaddafi killed 300 civilians at Lockerbie, I knew one of them. When do we invade Libya and kill 24k-100k Libyan civilians in response?
i don't see it anywhere where it says you could only critize if you serve. tell that anicdote to ford and see his reaction. there are people who are conservative on this board who served but they don't use that fact to tell others they can't critize. as for myself i'll say what i have said before: i have not and will not ever state what i do for a living on this board or any other on the net. thats to much info to let out there here in cyberspace. people will guess but few will knowOriginally posted by Nickdfresh
Well I was being ironical. I served and pay my taxes without bitching. I have a right to critique. I find it interesting when flag waiving conservatives never serve in the military, and bitch about income taxes. It's great to be an American without really making any sacrifices. I think John Fogerty put it best:Comment
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