BYU physics professor says WTC was a controlled demolition

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  • Keeyth
    Crazy Ass Mofo
    • Apr 2004
    • 3010

    I tried to be patriotic.

    I tried to believe. I watched those quarter mile high buildings fall
    through their jaw-dropping catastrophes over and over again. I
    listened to the announcer and the experts explain what had happened.
    And I worked at my pitiful lack of faith, pounding my skull with the
    remote control and staring on the flickering images on the TV screen.

    But poor mental peasant that I am, I could not escape the teachings of
    my forefathers. I fear I am trapped in my time, walled off from
    further scientific understanding by my inability to abandon the Second
    Millennium mindset.

    But enough of myself. Let us move on to the Science and Technology of
    the 21st Century. Those of you who cannot believe should learn the
    official truth by rote and perhaps you will be able to hide your
    ignorance.

    Here are the bare bones of the WTC incident:
    North tower struck 8:45, collapsed 10:29;
    South tower struck 9:03, collapsed 9:50;
    (See http://www.infoplease.com/spot/sept112001.html)

    Using jet fuel to melt steel is an amazing discovery, really. It is
    also amazing that until now, no one had been able to get it to work,
    and that proves the terrorists were not stupid people. Ironworkers
    fool with acetylene torches, bottled oxygen, electric arcs from
    generators, electric furnaces, and other elaborate tricks, but what
    did these brilliant terrorists use? Jet fuel, costing maybe 80 cents
    a gallon on the open market.

    Let us consider: One plane full of jet fuel hit the north tower at
    8:45 AM, and the fuel fire burned for a while with bright flames and
    black smoke. We can see pictures of the smoke and flames shooting
    from the windows.

    Then by 9:03 (which time was marked by the second plane's collision
    with the south tower), the flame was mostly gone and only black smoke
    continued to pour from the building. To my simple mind, that would
    indicate that the first fire had died down, but something was still
    burning inefficiently, leaving soot (carbon) in the smoke. A fire
    with sooty smoke is either low temperature or starved for oxygen -- or
    both.


    But by 10:29 AM, the fire in north tower had accomplished the feat
    that I find so amazing: It melted the steel supports in the building,
    causing a chain reaction within the structure that brought the
    building to the ground.

    And with less fuel to feed the fire, the south tower collapsed only 47
    minutes after the plane collision, again with complete destruction.
    This is only half the time it took to destroy the north tower.

    I try not to think about that. I try not to think about a petroleum
    fire burning for 104 minutes, just getting hotter and hotter until it
    reached 1538 degrees Celsius (2800 Fahrenheit) and melted the steel
    (steel is about 99% iron; for melting point of iron, see
    http://www.webelements.com/webelemen...t/Fe/heat.html). I
    try not to wonder how the fire reached temperatures that only bottled
    oxygen or forced air can produce.

    And I try not to think about all the steel that was in that building
    -- 200,000 tons of it (see http://www.infoplease.com/spot/wtc1.html
    for stats). I try to forget that heating steel is like pouring syrup
    onto a plate: you can't get it to stack up. The heat just flows out
    to the colder parts of the steel, cooling off the part you are trying
    to warm up. If you pour it on hard enough and fast enough, you can
    get the syrup to stack up a little bit. And with very high heat
    brought on very fast, you can heat up the one part of the object, but
    the heat will quickly spread out and the part will cool off the moment
    you stop.

    When the heat source warms the last cold part of the object, the heat
    stops escaping and the point of attention can be warmed.

    If the north tower collapse was due to heated steel, why did it take
    104 minutes to reach the critical temperature? (See
    http://www.infoplease.com/spot/sept112001.html). Am I to believe that
    the fire burned all that time, getting constantly hotter until it
    reached melting temperature? Or did it burn hot and steady throughout
    until 200,000 tons of steel were heated molten - on one plane load of
    jet fuel? (Quantity of steel in WTC:
    http://www.infoplease.com/spot/wtc1.html)

    Thankfully, I found this note on the BBC web page
    (http://news.bbc.co.uk/hi/english/wor...00/1540044.stm):
    "Fire reaches 800 [degrees] C - hot enough to melt steel floor
    supports." That is one of the things I warned you about: In the 20th
    Century, steel melted at 1538 degrees Celsius (2800 F, see
    http://www.chemicalelements.com/elements/fe.html), but in the 21st
    Century, it melts at 800 degrees C (1472 F).

    This might be explained as a reporter's mistake -- 800 to 900 C is the
    temperature for forging wrought iron. As soft as wrought iron is, of
    course, it would never be used for structural steel in a landmark
    skyscraper. (Descriptions of cast iron, wrought iron, and steel and
    relevant temperatures discussed at
    http://www.metrum.org/measures/castiron.htm).

    But then lower down, the BBC page repeats the 800 C number in bold,
    and the article emphasizes that the information comes from Chris Wise,
    "Structural Engineer." Would this professional individual permit
    himself to be misquoted in a global publication?

    I feel it coming on again -- that horrible cynicism that causes me to
    doubt the word of the major anchor-persons. Please just think of this
    essay as a plea for help, and do NOT let it interfere with your own
    righteous faith. The collapse of America's faith in its leaders must
    not become another casualty on America's skyline.

    In my diseased mind, I think of the floors of each tower like a stack
    of LP (33 1/3 RPM) records, only they were square instead of circular.
    They were stacked around a central spindle that consisted of multiple
    steel columns stationed in a square around the 103 elevator shafts.
    (See http://www.skyscraper.org/tallest/t_wtc.htm and
    http://www.civil.usyd.edu.au/wtc.htm)

    With this core bearing the weight of the building, the platters were
    tied together and stabilized by another set of steel columns at the
    outside rim, closely spaced and completely surrounding the structure.
    This resulting structure was so stable that the top of the towers
    swayed only three feet in a high wind. The architects called it a
    "tube-within-a-tube design."

    The TV experts told us that the joints between the floors and central
    columns melted (or the floor trusses, or the central columns, or the
    exterior columns, depending on the expert) and this caused the floor
    to collapse and fall onto the one below. This overloaded the joints
    for the lower floor, and the two of them fell onto the floor below,
    and so on. Like dominos (see
    http://news-info.wustl.edu/News/nrindex00/harmon.html).

    Back in the early 1970s when the World Trade Towers were built, the
    WTC was the tallest building that had ever been built in the history
    of the world. If we consider the architectural engineers, suppliers,
    builders, and city inspectors in the job, we can imagine they would be
    very careful to over-build every aspect of the building. If one bolt
    was calculated to serve, you can bet that three or four were used. If
    there was any doubt about the quality of a girder or steel beam, you
    can be sure it was rejected. After all, any failures would attract
    the attention of half the civilized world, and no corporation wants a
    reputation for that kind of stupidity -- particularly if there are
    casualties.

    I do not know the exact specifications for the WTC, but I know in many
    trades (and some I've worked), a structural member must be physically
    capable of three times the maximum load that will ever be required of
    it (BreakingStrength = 3 x WorkingStrength). Given that none of those
    floors was holding a grand piano sale or an elephant convention that
    day, it is unlikely that any of them were loaded to the maximum.
    Thus, any of the floors should have been capable of supporting more
    than its own weight plus the two floors above it. I suspect the WTC
    was engineered for safer margins than the average railroad bridge, and
    the actual load on each floor was less than 1/6 the BreakingStringth.

    The platters were constructed of webs of steel trusses. Radial
    trusses ran from the perimeter of the floor to the central columns,
    and concentric rings of trusses connected the radial trusses, forming
    a pattern like a spider web (see
    http://news.bbc.co.uk/olmedia/154000...ructure300.gif).

    Where the radial trusses connected with the central columns, I imagine
    the joints looked like the big bolted flanges where girders meet on a
    bridge -- inches thick bolts tying the beams into the columns.

    The experts tell us that the heat of the fire melted the steel,
    causing the joints to fail. In order to weaken those joints, a fire
    would have to heat the bolts or the flanges to the point where the
    bolts fell apart or tore through the steel. But here is another thing
    that gives me problems -- all the joints between the platter and the
    central columns would have to be heated at the same rate in order to
    collapse at the same time -- and at the same rate as the joints with
    the outer rim columns on all sides -- else one side of the platter
    would fall, damaging the floor below and making obvious distortions in
    the skin of the building, or throwing the top of tower off balance and
    to one side.

    But there were no irregularities in the fall of the main structure of
    those buildings. They fell almost as perfectly as a deck of cards in
    the hands of a magician doing an aerial shuffle.

    This is particularly worrisome since the first plane struck one side
    of the north tower, causing (you would think) a weakening on that side
    where the exterior columns were struck, and a more intense fire on
    that side than on the other side. And the second plane struck near
    the corner of the south tower at an angle that caused much of the fuel
    to spew out the windows on the adjacent side (see
    http://www.eionews.addr.com/images/w...htowerpath.jpg).

    Yet the south tower also collapsed in perfect symmetry, spewing dust
    in all directions like a Fourth of July sparkler burning to the
    ground.

    Oh, wait. Here is a picture showing the top 25 floors of one tower
    (probably south) toppling over sideways
    (http://news.bbc.co.uk/olmedia/153500...lapseap150.jpg).
    Why are there no reports of this cube of concrete and steel (measuring
    200 ft. wide, 200 ft. deep, and 200 ft high), falling from a 1000 feet
    into the street below?

    But implosion expert Mark Loizeaux, president of Controlled Demolition
    Inc. in Phoenix, MD is of the opinion that it happened:

    Observing the collapses on television news, Loizeaux says the
    1,362-ft-tall south tower, which was hit at about the 60th floor,
    failed much as one would like (sic) fell a tree
    (http://www.civil.usyd.edu.au/wtc_enr.htm).

    ***
    I have seen a videotaped rerun of the south tower falling. In that
    take, the upper floors descend as a complete unit. All the way, the
    upper-floor unit was canted over as shown on the BBC page, sliding
    down behind the intervening buildings like a piece of stage scenery.

    That scene is the most puzzling of all. Since the upper floors were
    not collapsed (the connection between the center columns and the
    platters were intact), this assembly would present itself to the lower
    floors as a platter WITHOUT a central hole. How then would a platter
    without a hole slide down the spindle with the other platters? Where
    would the central columns go if they could not penetrate the upp
    floors as they fell?

    The only model I can find for the situation would be this: If the fire
    melted the floor joints so that the collapse began from the 60th floor
    downward, the upper floors would be left hanging in the air, supported
    only by the central columns. This situation would soon become
    unstable and the top 40 floors would topple over (to use Loizeaux's
    image) much like felling the top 600 ft. from a 1300 ft. tree.

    This model would hold also hold for the north tower. According to
    Chris Wise's "domino" doctrine, the collapse began only at the floor
    with the fire, not at the penthouse. How was it that the upper floor
    simply disappeared instead of crashing to the earth as a block of
    thousands of tons of concrete and steel?

    The amazing thing is that no one (but Loizeaux) even mentions this
    phenomenon, much less describing the seismic event it must have
    caused.

    Where is the ruin where the 200ft x 200ft x 50 story- object struck?
    Foty floors should have caused a ray of devastation 500 ft. into the
    surrounding cityscape.

    In trying to reconstruct and understand this event, we have to know
    whether the scenes we are watching are edited or simply shown raw as
    they were recorded.
    ***

    But let us return to the fire. Liquid fuel does not burn hot for
    long. Liquid fuel evaporates (or boils) as it burns, and the vapor
    burns as it boils off. If the ambient temperature passes the flash
    point of the fuel and oxygen is plentiful, the process builds to an
    explosion that consumes the fuel.

    Jet fuel boils at temperatures above 176 degrees Celsius (350 F) and
    the vapor flashes into flame at 250 degrees Celsius (482 F). In an
    environment of 1500 degrees, jet fuel spread thinly on walls, floor,
    and ceiling would boil off very quickly. And then it would either
    burn, or run out of oxygen and smother itself. Or it would simply
    disperse out the open windows (some New Yorkers claimed they could
    smelled the spilled fuel).

    In no case would an office building full of spilled jet fuel sustain a
    fire at 815 degrees C (1500 F) for 104 minutes -- unless it was fed
    bottled oxygen, forced air, or something else atypical of a fire in a
    high-rise office building. Certainly, the carpets, wallpaper,
    occasional desks -- nothing else in that office would produce that
    temperature. What was burning?

    OK, since it was mentioned, I am also upset with the quantity of
    concrete dust (see http://www.civil.usyd.edu.au/wtc.htm#why). No
    concrete that I have ever known pulverizes like that. It is
    unnerving. My experience with concrete has shown that it will crumble
    under stress, but rarely does it just give up the ghost and turn to
    powder. But look at the pictures -- it is truly a fine dust in great
    billowing clouds spewing a hundred feet from the collapsing tower.
    And the people on the ground see little more than an opaque wall of
    dust -- with inches of dust filling the streets and the lungs
    afterward. (http://eionews.addr.com/images/wtc/thirdexplosion.jpg)
    What has happened here?

    I need a faith booster shot here. I would like to find a pictures of
    all those platters piled up on each other on the ground, just as they
    fell -- has anyone seen a picture like that? I am told it was
    cumulative weight of those platters falling on each other that caused
    the collapse, but I don't see the platters pilled up liked flapjacks
    on the ground floor.

    Instead, the satellite pictures show the WTC ruins like an ash pit:



    I am told by a friend that a Dr. Robert Schuller was on television
    telling about his trip to the ruins. He announced in the interview
    that there was not a single block of concrete in that rubble. From
    the original 425,000 cubic yards of concrete that went into the
    building, all was dust. How did that happen?

    I have just one other point I need help with -- the steel columns in
    the center. When the platters fell, those quarter-mile high central
    steel columns (at least from the ground to the fire) should have
    been left standing naked and unsupported in the air, and then they
    should have fallen intact or in sections to the ground below,
    clobbering buildings hundreds of feet from the WTC site like giant
    trees falling in the forest. But I haven't seen any pictures showing
    those columns standing, falling, or lying on the ground. Nor have I
    heard of damage caused by them.

    Now I know those terrorist must have been much better at these things
    than I am. I would take one look at their kamikaze plans with
    commercial jets and I would reject it as -- spectacular maybe, but not
    significantly damaging. The WTC was not even a strategic military
    target.

    But if I were a kamikaze terrorist, I would try to hit the towers low
    in the supports to knock the towers down, maybe trapping the workers
    with the fire and burning the towers from the ground up, just as the
    people in last 20 stories were trapped. Even the Japanese kamikaze
    pilots aimed for the water line.

    But you see, those terrorists were so sure the building would
    magically collapse that way, the pilot who hit the north tower chose a
    spot just 20 floors from the top.


    And the kamikaze for south tower was only slightly lower -- despite a
    relatively open skyline down to 25 or 30 stories.


    The terrorists apparently predicted the whole scenario -- the fuel
    fire, the slow weakening of the structure, and the horrific collapse
    of the building - phenomena that the architects and the NY civil
    engineering approval committees never dreamed of.

    Even as you righteously hate those men, you have to admire them for
    their genius.

    Few officials or engineers have been surprised by this turn of events
    -- apparently everyone certified it for airplane collisions, but
    almost no one was surprised when both collisions caused utter
    catastrophes in both towers. In fact, their stutters and mumbles and
    circumlocutions would make a politician blush:

    "Eventually, the loss of strength and stiffness of the materials
    resulting from the fire, combined with the initial impact damage,
    would have caused a failure of the truss system supporting a
    floor, or the remaining perimeter columns, or even the internal
    core, or some combination."
    (http://www.civil.usyd.edu.au/wtc.htm#why)

    In a hundred years of tall city buildings, this kind of collapse has
    never happened before. Never. It was not predicted by any of the
    experts involved when the WTC towers were built. But now that it has
    happened, everybody understands it perfectly and nobody is surprised.

    Is this civil engineering in the Third Millennium -- a galloping case
    of perfect hindsight?

    Only one I have found candidly admitted his surprise:

    Observing the collapses on television news, Loizeaux says the
    1,362-ft-tall south tower, which was hit at about the 60th floor,
    failed much as one would like (sic) fell a tree. That is what was
    expected, says Loizeaux. But the 1,368-ft-tall north tower,
    similarly hit but at about the 90th floor, "telescoped," says
    Loizeaux. It failed vertically, he adds, rather than falling
    over. "I don't have a clue," says Loizeaux, regarding the cause of
    the telescoping. (http://www.civil.usyd.edu.au/wtc_enr.htm)

    There was one highly qualified engineer in New Mexico who thought the
    collapse could only happen with the help of demolition explosives, and
    he was foolish enough to make the statement publicly. But then he
    recanted ten days later and admitted the whole thing was perfectly
    natural and unsurprising. I wonder what happened in those ten days to
    make him so smart on the subject so quickly.

    Both articles at the Albuquerque Journal:


    And then, as though demonstrating how normal this "building
    collapsing" phenomenon is, WTC buildings Six and Seven "collapsed,"
    too:

    "Other buildings - including the 47-story Salomon Brothers
    building [WTC 7] - caved in later, weakened by the earlier
    collapses, and more nearby buildings may still fall, say
    engineers."
    (http://news.bbc.co.uk/hi/english/wor...00/1540044.stm
    and http://www.eionews.addr.com/images/w...ersixafter.jpg)

    It seems no building in the area, regardless of design, is immune to
    galloping WTC collapse-itis. It never happened in the 20th Century,
    but welcome to the physical universe laws of the Third Millennium.

    Pardon me, but this recitation has not given me the relief I hoped
    for. I must get back to work.

    I believe in the president, the flag, and the Statue of Liberty. I
    believe in the honesty of the FBI and the humility of military men. I
    believe in the network news anchor-persons, who strive to learn the
    truth, to know the truth, and to tell the truth to the audience.

    And I believe all of America is so well educated in the basic physics
    discussed above, they would rise up in fury if anyone tried to pull a
    cheap Hollywood trick on them.

    Hand me that remote, will you? I believe clonk. I believe clonk.
    I believe ...

    ---
    J. McMichael

    (Celsius/Fahrenheit conversion tool at
    http://www.vaxxine.com/mgdsite/celcon.htm)

    --
    Logic is Truth and Truth, Logic
    This is all we know on earth
    - and all we need to know.
    Knowing and believing are two very different things.

    It is the difference between the knowledge we accrue... ...and the knowledge we apply.

    Comment

    • Guitar Shark
      ROTH ARMY SUPREME
      • Jan 2004
      • 7579

      Keeyth, do you mind if I ask what you do for a living?
      ROTH ARMY MILITIA


      Originally posted by EAT MY ASSHOLE
      Sharky sometimes needs things spelled out for him in explicit, specific detail. I used to think it was a lawyer thing, but over time it became more and more evident that he's merely someone's idiot twin.

      Comment

      • Seshmeister
        ROTH ARMY WEBMASTER

        • Oct 2003
        • 35206

        Originally posted by Hardrock69

        Not only that, despite the obvious bullshit of Brigham Young, simply because the professor works there does not mean he graduated from there.

        Not only that, he is not going to get a degree in physics be creating some bullshit story like "An angel appeared to me in a field and handed me my Masters Thesis on some golden tablets and then took them away by the time I got home..."

        Physics does not change depending on what university you teach at...

        The comparison you made Sesh is laughable...

        HK the guy is a loon!

        He may be or have started out as a good theoretical physicist but he's now publishing mormon stuff like

        Proof that Christ was in America

        Comment

        • Keeyth
          Crazy Ass Mofo
          • Apr 2004
          • 3010

          Originally posted by Guitar Shark
          Keeyth, do you mind if I ask what you do for a living?
          I don't see the relevance, but I'm a Corporate Sales Executive.
          Knowing and believing are two very different things.

          It is the difference between the knowledge we accrue... ...and the knowledge we apply.

          Comment

          • knuckleboner
            Crazy Ass Mofo
            • Jan 2004
            • 2927

            Originally posted by Keeyth
            That is soooo much bullshit.
            First off, these buildings were DESIGNED to withstand the impact of an aircraft after the previously mentioned Empire State Building incident.


            a 707, not a 757. you know that, right?

            Comment

            • Seshmeister
              ROTH ARMY WEBMASTER

              • Oct 2003
              • 35206

              The relevance is tha you are taking evidence from people with a high school education and an internet connection.

              I'm not an engineer either but I know enough to see through that post.

              For a start absolutely noone says that the steel melted, just that steel loses more than 50% of it's strength at the temperatures of the fire. I also know that there are different kinds and sizes of airplanes with different amount sof fuel on board.

              I can't quite get to grips with the engineering of building things like the WTC which sway 20 feet in winds of 250mph so what I do is then look to scientific journals not conspiracy websites.

              Comment

              • ELVIS
                Banned
                • Dec 2003
                • 44120

                They sooo want the WTC collapse to be a conspiracy...

                Comment

                • Keeyth
                  Crazy Ass Mofo
                  • Apr 2004
                  • 3010

                  Originally posted by knuckleboner
                  a 707, not a 757. you know that, right?
                  So friggin WHAT??? A direct hit by a 707 would be the same as a near miss by a 757, which the second tower was barely hit with just a corner being taken out. What's your point???
                  Knowing and believing are two very different things.

                  It is the difference between the knowledge we accrue... ...and the knowledge we apply.

                  Comment

                  • Keeyth
                    Crazy Ass Mofo
                    • Apr 2004
                    • 3010

                    Originally posted by Seshmeister
                    The relevance is tha you are taking evidence from people with a high school education and an internet connection.

                    I'm not an engineer either but I know enough to see through that post.

                    For a start absolutely noone says that the steel melted, just that steel loses more than 50% of it's strength at the temperatures of the fire. I also know that there are different kinds and sizes of airplanes with different amount sof fuel on board.

                    I can't quite get to grips with the engineering of building things like the WTC which sway 20 feet in winds of 250mph so what I do is then look to scientific journals not conspiracy websites.
                    With this core bearing the weight of the building, the platters were
                    tied together and stabilized by another set of steel columns at the
                    outside rim, closely spaced and completely surrounding the structure.This resulting structure was so stable that the top of the towers swayed only three feet in a high wind. The architects called it a
                    "tube-within-a-tube design."
                    Knowing and believing are two very different things.

                    It is the difference between the knowledge we accrue... ...and the knowledge we apply.

                    Comment

                    • knuckleboner
                      Crazy Ass Mofo
                      • Jan 2004
                      • 2927

                      Originally posted by Keeyth
                      So friggin WHAT??? A direct hit by a 707 would be the same as a near miss by a 757, which the second tower was barely hit with just a corner being taken out. What's your point???
                      none.

                      if physics says that there is no difference between a small plane and a large plane, than i have no argument.

                      Comment

                      • Guitar Shark
                        ROTH ARMY SUPREME
                        • Jan 2004
                        • 7579

                        Originally posted by knuckleboner
                        none.

                        if physics says that there is no difference between a small plane and a large plane, than i have no argument.
                        ROFL!
                        ROTH ARMY MILITIA


                        Originally posted by EAT MY ASSHOLE
                        Sharky sometimes needs things spelled out for him in explicit, specific detail. I used to think it was a lawyer thing, but over time it became more and more evident that he's merely someone's idiot twin.

                        Comment

                        • Keeyth
                          Crazy Ass Mofo
                          • Apr 2004
                          • 3010

                          Originally posted by Seshmeister

                          I'm not an engineer either but I know enough to see through that post.

                          My father is a Mechanical and Electrical Engineer, who built a very succesfull Robotics engineering company and also has a little background in Architecture AND he's a staunch Republican and even HE says there is no way those towers should have come down the way they did. He read this same article and could not refute the facts this man layed out.

                          The first time he read it he actually got pissed at me, but later came around and said that he agreed he did not have a good explanation as to why those buildings came down, and that the official story did not hold water, and that this guy made some very good points. If you knew this man, for him to say that would convince you too.
                          Knowing and believing are two very different things.

                          It is the difference between the knowledge we accrue... ...and the knowledge we apply.

                          Comment

                          • Keeyth
                            Crazy Ass Mofo
                            • Apr 2004
                            • 3010

                            Originally posted by knuckleboner
                            none.

                            if physics says that there is no difference between a small plane and a large plane, than i have no argument.
                            What kind of moron ARE you?? A 707 is NOT a small plane. Why don't you google it and take a look at some images for yourself. Either plane is essentially going to do the same amount of damage.
                            Knowing and believing are two very different things.

                            It is the difference between the knowledge we accrue... ...and the knowledge we apply.

                            Comment

                            • Keeyth
                              Crazy Ass Mofo
                              • Apr 2004
                              • 3010

                              Originally posted by Guitar Shark
                              ROFL!
                              You must not know the size of the planes in question either.
                              Knowing and believing are two very different things.

                              It is the difference between the knowledge we accrue... ...and the knowledge we apply.

                              Comment

                              • Keeyth
                                Crazy Ass Mofo
                                • Apr 2004
                                • 3010

                                Originally posted by ELVIS
                                They sooo want the WTC collapse to be a conspiracy...

                                No, I really didn't. But there is no other logical explanation. Those planes could not have brought those buildings down the way they did without help. Just the facts, m'am.
                                Knowing and believing are two very different things.

                                It is the difference between the knowledge we accrue... ...and the knowledge we apply.

                                Comment

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