US general suspended over abuse

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  • Seshmeister
    ROTH ARMY WEBMASTER

    • Oct 2003
    • 35755

    US general suspended over abuse

    Abu Ghraib prison was much feared in Saddam Hussein's day
    A US general has been suspended in Iraq over the alleged abuse of prisoners by US troops in jails she ran.

    Brigadier General Janice Karpinski is among seven officers being investigated following claims that soldiers under their command mistreated detainees.

    The army confirmed the suspension after US television broadcast images of US soldiers allegedly abusing inmates at Abu Ghraib prison near Baghdad.

    CBS TV says it has "dozens" of pictures showing a wide range of maltreatment.

    Taken by US troops, many of the pictures show American troops watching in apparent approval.

    The army announced last month that 17 soldiers had been suspended over the allegations of abuse of prisoners.

    Six of them - military police - are facing court martial.

    CBS said an army investigation had concluded that Gen Karpinski's "lack of leadership and clear standards" led to problems in Abu Ghraib and three other prisons for which she was responsible.

    The army has made no formal charges against her. She is the subject of an investigation that could result in a written reprimand, AFP news agency reported.

    'Appalled'

    Brig Gen Mark Kimmitt told CBS the army was "appalled" by the behaviour of its soldiers.

    Gen Kimmitt, the deputy head of coalition forces in Iraq, said the suspected abusers "let their fellow soldiers down".

    But, he said, the few suspects were "not representative of the 150,000 soldiers that are over here... Don't judge your army based on the actions of a few," he urged Americans.

    CBS says the pictures it obtained show a wide range of abuses, including:

    Prisoners with wires attached to their genitals

    A dog attacking a prisoner

    Prisoners being forced to simulate having sex with each other

    A detainee with an abusive word written on his body.

    The prison where the abuses are alleged to have taken place was a notorious torture centre during the Saddam Hussein era.

    Bob Baer, a former CIA operative with extensive Iraq experience, told CBS: "If there [was] ever a reason to get rid of Saddam Hussein, it's Abu Ghraib [prison]."

    No guidance

    The station spoke to one of the six soldiers charged, Sergeant Chip Frederick - a reservist whose full-time job is as a prison officer in the US state of Virginia.


    We had no training whatsoever

    Sgt Chip Frederick
    Sgt Frederick said he and his fellow reservists had never been told how to deal with prisoners, or what lines should not be crossed.

    "We had no training whatsoever," he said.

    "I kept asking my chain of command for certain things... like rules and regulations. And it just wasn't happening," he said.

    He said he never saw a copy of the Geneva Conventions - which govern the treatment of prisoners - until after he was charged.

    The Army investigation confirmed that reservists at Abu Ghraib had not been trained in Geneva Convention rules.

    The military police officers have been charged by the US Army with crimes ranging from assault and maltreatment to indecent acts against prisoners.

    The soldiers in question reportedly were assisting interrogators from US intelligence agencies.

    Last month, when the six military police officers were charged, an Army spokesman said the alleged crimes involved fewer than 20 prisoners and happened around November and December.

    The charges include conspiracy, dereliction of duty, cruelty, maltreatment, assault and indecent acts with another.
  • Seshmeister
    ROTH ARMY WEBMASTER

    • Oct 2003
    • 35755

    #2
    Video Link!

    Comment

    • Mr Grimsdale
      ROTH ARMY SUPREME
      • Jan 2004
      • 9510

      #3
      While I'm not stupid enough to suggest this is official US policy it certainly isn't great PR.

      These soldiers should have had the proper training to know what to do with prisoners. All UK troops (reserves or regular) get trained in the Geneva convention, their obligations if captured and when looking after prisoners.

      Sergeant Frederick admits this, although to be honest a bit of common sense should have told him where the line was. A bit of common sense would also have prevented the pictures being taken in the first place.

      Of course I know that if a US soldier were to fall into the hands of the militants they'd get far, far worse treatment but if the US is trying to win over the population and waverers in general this isn't going to help.
      Originally posted by flappo
      i'm sure grimsdale's on drugs

      Originally posted by Cato
      translating your Japanese.


      "Master Cato is...I order, it's yours. don't ask me to do gay material for the life of me because you kick my bat."

      omae baka dana?

      Comment

      • ELVIS
        Banned
        • Dec 2003
        • 44120

        #4
        So the soldiers got bored and needed to entertain themselves...

        I agree.. common sense should have made photography a no no...

        I really could give a shit about the treatment of prisoners.. they are lucky to be alive...

        Comment

        • John Ashcroft
          Veteran
          • Jan 2004
          • 2127

          #5
          Not "abusive language written on his body"!!!

          I can handle the dogs and the wires, but this clearly steps over the line!


          Hey guys, there are always bad apples in every bundle. This is certainly not representative of the American soldier (and I know you've admitted this Grims). Now, the Brits are trained in the Geneva conventions (as are the Americans... or at least when I was in), did that stop some well known abuses from occurring by some of your soldiers? Again, not indicative of the overwhelming majority of those serving in Iraq (or anywhere else).

          Interesting that all of the good things the soldiers do (of all nationalities) on a daily basis is underreported, yet the rare incidences like this will be plastered across televisions, papers, and the internet for weeks. Hell, the French public was surprised when the coalition took Baghdad! They were told by their press that the Iraqis were winning. The good news is that the average American sees this agenda-driven "news" for what it is. Every attempt simply drives President Bush's approval numbers up a notch.

          Sesh, guys like you are inadvertantly helping with Bush's reelection. Keep up the good work mate!

          Comment

          • Mr Grimsdale
            ROTH ARMY SUPREME
            • Jan 2004
            • 9510

            #6
            I'm sure your regulars are trained in the implications of the Geneva convention but according to sergeant Frederick of the reserve unit responsible they weren't trained in it. That is pretty shoddy. If someone is wearing a uniform they should have that stuff drilled into them very early.

            I'm not denying that a small proportion of UK soldiers, or other nationalities, have had a little "fun" with prisoners but the guys concerned should really have had a LOT more sense than to take pictures of this.
            Originally posted by flappo
            i'm sure grimsdale's on drugs

            Originally posted by Cato
            translating your Japanese.


            "Master Cato is...I order, it's yours. don't ask me to do gay material for the life of me because you kick my bat."

            omae baka dana?

            Comment

            • Jesus Christ
              Veteran
              • Jan 2004
              • 2434

              #7
              Originally posted by ELVIS
              So the soldiers got bored and needed to entertain themselves...

              I agree.. common sense should have made photography a no no...

              I really could give a shit about the treatment of prisoners.. they are lucky to be alive...
              Following My teachings as usual, Gregory?

              Comment

              • Cathedral
                ROTH ARMY ELITE
                • Jan 2004
                • 6621

                #8
                Abuse of anyone by any means is unacceptable in my opinion.
                They should be punished to the fullest extent of the law and made an example of.

                This is rather disturbing to me, but I don't see how it reflects on an election in any case. it is not a problem descriptive of any political party, it is an apparent breakdown of authority and moral value that represents us all.
                The fact is, our country is represented by not only the good our soldiers do, but the bad as well.

                The only thing that offsets the negetive press is by prosecuting the offenders and doing it publically.

                Comment

                • Mr Grimsdale
                  ROTH ARMY SUPREME
                  • Jan 2004
                  • 9510

                  #9
                  Cathedral - the voice of reason!
                  Vote Cathedral 2004.
                  Originally posted by flappo
                  i'm sure grimsdale's on drugs

                  Originally posted by Cato
                  translating your Japanese.


                  "Master Cato is...I order, it's yours. don't ask me to do gay material for the life of me because you kick my bat."

                  omae baka dana?

                  Comment

                  • John Ashcroft
                    Veteran
                    • Jan 2004
                    • 2127

                    #10
                    The difference between the United States Military and that of almost any other is not that instances like this don't occur (they do in every war), it's that they will be Courts Martialed for it. Other countries use torture as normal operating procedures, directed from the highest levels down.

                    Comment

                    • Seshmeister
                      ROTH ARMY WEBMASTER

                      • Oct 2003
                      • 35755

                      #11
                      Originally posted by ELVIS
                      So the soldiers got bored and needed to entertain themselves...

                      I agree.. common sense should have made photography a no no...

                      I really could give a shit about the treatment of prisoners.. they are lucky to be alive...
                      Wow your 'christianity' really runs deep doesn't it.

                      The US has just lost the war.

                      Time to get the fuck out and put it down to the mistake of 'electing' a moron for a president.

                      Cheers!

                      Comment

                      • John Ashcroft
                        Veteran
                        • Jan 2004
                        • 2127

                        #12
                        Nope, ain't gonna happen Sesh.

                        And the U.S. most certainly hasn't lost "The War". Terrorism is at it's lowest level since 1969, and we haven't had an attack against American property since 9/11.

                        The U.S. is winning this war, and the leadership and resolve of President Bush is the reason. You can wish all you want, but it's not going to change the fact of the matter. If it makes you feel better, keep on telling yourself that the U.S. has lost. It's your freedom and choice. Enjoy your alliance with terrorists, dictators, and thugs.

                        Comment

                        • Mr Grimsdale
                          ROTH ARMY SUPREME
                          • Jan 2004
                          • 9510

                          #13
                          Originally posted by John Ashcroft
                          The difference between the United States Military and that of almost any other is not that instances like this don't occur (they do in every war), it's that they will be Courts Martialed for it. Other countries use torture as normal operating procedures, directed from the highest levels down.
                          There was some serious investigation of Colonel Tim Collins over accusations of abuse of prisoners. He was cleared.

                          Likewise the instance of some British squaddies slapping around some Iraqi prisoners down South. By down South I mean around Basra not
                          in the knackers.

                          Also the Italian government took a pretty dim view of the behaviour of their paratroops in Somalia in the early 90's.

                          Basically what I'm trying to say is that there ARE PLENTY of countries out there that treat such behaviour as serious misconduct.
                          Originally posted by flappo
                          i'm sure grimsdale's on drugs

                          Originally posted by Cato
                          translating your Japanese.


                          "Master Cato is...I order, it's yours. don't ask me to do gay material for the life of me because you kick my bat."

                          omae baka dana?

                          Comment

                          • Mr Grimsdale
                            ROTH ARMY SUPREME
                            • Jan 2004
                            • 9510

                            #14
                            Originally posted by Seshmeister
                            Wow your 'christianity' really runs deep doesn't it.
                            that was kind of my reaction to that comment to
                            Originally posted by flappo
                            i'm sure grimsdale's on drugs

                            Originally posted by Cato
                            translating your Japanese.


                            "Master Cato is...I order, it's yours. don't ask me to do gay material for the life of me because you kick my bat."

                            omae baka dana?

                            Comment

                            • ELVIS
                              Banned
                              • Dec 2003
                              • 44120

                              #15
                              I was on the phone with my X wife when I made that post...

                              Comment

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