U.S. Infrastructure Crumbling

[Big Train]

Broad brush strokes is kind of what we do around here. While your right, I'm not familiar with Canadian mining unions, it does not negate what I'm saying about unions in America, where I am familiar.

While union money, yes, has been used in useful applications for the workers (I'll go balanced here), it does not change any of what I feel about it in the negative. Mafia influence has always been a part to a greater or lesser degree in the US. In total, I don't feel that unions provide the best route to what workers need and in many industries stand in the way of getting them. If it's working for you in Canadian mining, then that is great. I just don't think across the board they are the best way to go. I'm saying that because I'm pro worker, not so much anti-union.

An for the record, it certainly does feel like anyone who didn't vote for a dem is labeled a neo-con around here.

[WACF]

Broad brush strokes is kind of what we do around here. While your right, I'm not familiar with Canadian mining unions, it does not negate what I'm saying about unions in America, where I am familiar.

While union money, yes, has been used in useful applications for the workers (I'll go balanced here), it does not change any of what I feel about it in the negative. Mafia influence has always been a part to a greater or lesser degree in the US. In total, I don't feel that unions provide the best route to what workers need and in many industries stand in the way of getting them. If it's working for you in Canadian mining, then that is great. I just don't think across the board they are the best way to go. I'm saying that because I'm pro worker, not so much anti-union.

Perhaps it is different in the US...here it was key to getting health and saftey laws cemented into legislation.

It was key in forming a mining act.

Because of Unions...non union shops exist and enoy being covered by the laws unions helped create...something we can all be thankful for.

Non-Union shops pay competitive wages to keep employee's loyal.

It is important to find balance...if there were no unions I think we would be fucked as workers...if unions controlled all labour...no company could exist.

Unions in manufacturing and industry...yes

unions flipping burgers....just plain silly.


On a side note...

I was in Elko, Nevada looking at some mining equipment we were looking at purchasing amost two years ago.
We were taken on a tour of a mine to see some of the equipment in the field.
When we asked about desiel emmisions...they did not really know what they were.
There...once a month the mine's inspector would come...tune the equipment to meet safe levels...he would leave, then they would put all the equipment back.

There was no concern about the operators breathing in excessive exhaust...and no recourse for the inspector finding the equipment being set to unsafe levels.

The operators did not care...the extra product they hauled translated into a bonus...which trumped their future health.

That would not fly up here...

An for the record, it certainly does feel like anyone who didn't vote for a dem is labeled a neo-con around here.

True...but we know better...

[sadaist]

The group estimated that people spend 4.2 billion hours a year stuck in traffic, costing the economy $78.2 billion.

My experiences with traffic have about 0.01% to do with the roads and 99.99% to do with horrible drivers. People don't understand how merging works, driving in rain, putting on makeup, drinking coffee while eating a McMuffin, texting, not pulling to the side for fender benders, not pulling to the side when their crappy car runs out of gas or seizes up. How many times have you been doing 5 mph on the freeway for an hour just to finally see two cars pulled to the side with a cop because they bumped fenders....because someone wasn't paying attention or merged improperly?

[FORD]

Sometimes its not that easy to "pull over to the side". A few years ago, I was doing about 75-80 on I-5 just a few miles south of Bellingham. The area is almost like going over a mountain pass.... two lanes, really narrow shoulders, if you go off the left side, you go straight down, and if you go off the right side, you hit the hillside itself. Suddenly I hear a noise that at first sounds like a helicopter flying over head, then things get really bumpy....Oh fuck...... Left front tire completely blown out. What the fuck to do now?

If I slowed down, I'd probably roll the damn thing right off a cliff. I'm in the left lane, so a lane change isn't practical in traffic, especially with lots of 18 wheelers in the mix.....

So I keep going another mile or so.... by some miracle, keeping the thing balanced on three functional tires. Finally I'm at a spot where there's a break in the traffic and barely enough of a right shoulder to pull off , so I do that, and then risk some asshole running me over while I swap the dead tire for the useless "emergency spare donut".

BTW... likely cause of this blowout? Shitty road conditions (to bring this back to infrastructure) Too bad that son of a bitch Tim Eyman wasn't willing to pay for the whole new set of tires that I wasn't planning on buying that week.

[Nickdfresh]

Broad brush strokes is kind of what we do around here. While your right, I'm not familiar with Canadian mining unions, it does not negate what I'm saying about unions in America, where I am familiar.

Oh, and how are you "familiar?"

While union money, yes, has been used in useful applications for the workers (I'll go balanced here), it does not change any of what I feel about it in the negative. Mafia influence has always been a part to a greater or lesser degree in the US. In total, I don't feel that unions provide the best route to what workers need and in many industries stand in the way of getting them. If it's working for you in Canadian mining, then that is great. I just don't think across the board they are the best way to go. I'm saying that because I'm pro worker, not so much anti-union.

An for the record, it certainly does feel like anyone who didn't vote for a dem is labeled a neo-con around here.

Oh sure, the unions are corrupt, but the corporations (ignoring workers dying of fucking cancer from their asbestos milkshakes served at lunch) are all fucking squeaky clean and innocent...

[Big Train]

Oh, and how are you "familiar?"



Oh sure, the unions are corrupt, but the corporations (ignoring workers dying of fucking cancer from their asbestos milkshakes served at lunch) are all fucking squeaky clean and innocent...

My father was in a union for twenty years, my grandfather was one of the original Teamster local chapter presidents and my uncles all were in unions. Every one of them walked away from them.

Your so fucking extreme Nick and in a retarded way. I can't say something like (and this is ALL I've said) that I don't believe that unions are the best way to go for workers, without you screaming that I must love big corporations and think they are flawless. It's a tiresome way to discuss with someone when you throw out these emotional tirades about things I've never said, that you assume.

[Nickdfresh]

My father was in a union for twenty years, my grandfather was one of the original Teamster local chapter presidents and my uncles all were in unions. Every one of them walked away from them.

So, do they think you're a complete, ungrateful dick that doesn't appreciate what their hard won rights to a living wage brought you?

Your so fucking extreme Nick and in a retarded way. I can't say something like (and this is ALL I've said) that I don't believe that unions are the best way to go for workers, without you screaming that I must love big corporations and think they are flawless. It's a tiresome way to discuss with someone when you throw out these emotional tirades about things I've never said, that you assume.

Yeah, I'm so "fucking extreme." The middle class if being gradually annihilated in this country with wealth polarization not seen since the days of robber baron capitalism...

But that's all my fault, eh biodiesel boy?

[Big Train]

Nope not at all pal. They ALL WALKED AWAY (it helps to read). In each case, they saw that the union became greedy and became more about itself than the worker. In each case as well, their "living wage" became much better after going out on their own, starting their own shops. Works for me too.

Well, your emotional ranting, which you'll realize I'm talking about when you come down from the bi-polar high, is what my post was discussing. That gem about the "middle class" in your previous post was not anything we were discussing, but some overarching thing your trying to throw in there, with me thinking that it's "your fault"? Not at all, nor did I say that, stay on task.

[Nickdfresh]

Nope not at all pal. They ALL WALKED AWAY (it helps to read). In each case, they saw that the union became greedy and became more about itself than the worker. In each case as well, their "living wage" became much better after going out on their own, starting their own shops. Works for me too.

They never would have been able to do shit if the unions hadn't been there in the first place! And I've never blindly defended unions and have criticized some of the UAW crap like "jobsbank" which is ridiculous, although I do believe working people deserve a severance just like white collar executives get...

Well, your emotional ranting, which you'll realize I'm talking about when you come down from the bi-polar high, is what my post was discussing. That gem about the "middle class" in your previous post was not anything we were discussing, but some overarching thing your trying to throw in there, with me thinking that it's "your fault"? Not at all, nor did I say that, stay on task.

Oh, okay. The funny thing is that I've caught you making many blanket statements in the past and it seemed that you were -oh- exaggerating for theatrical effect shall we say? Like the fact that you really didn't seem to know the first thing about the biodiesel stocks you were so in the aether over at one point...

But I'm the "emotional one?" Quite contraire. You're the one that is making blanket assertions and mindlessly droning on against unions, often with "facts" you cannot substantiate...

I'm not the one making the "emotive" patently ridiculous statements without logic and empathy, blankets...

I might also remind you that you were the first one to lose your temper and resort to the "flamefesting." Pot teakettle...

[Big Train]

They never would have been able to do shit if the unions hadn't been there in the first place! And I've never blindly defended unions and have criticized some of the UAW crap like "jobsbank" which is ridiculous, although I do believe working people deserve a severance just like white collar executives get...

If you say so. They did join of their own free will...and left of the same. Likewise, I've never said corporations were blameless or that people don't deserve decent pay or benefits. I've always doubted the union as being the right way to go about it. That seems to upset you greatly.

Oh, okay. The funny thing is that I've caught you making many blanket statements in the past and it seemed that you were -oh- exaggerating for theatrical effect shall we say? Like the fact that you really didn't seem to know the first thing about the biodiesel stocks you were so in the aether over at one point...

Really? Do tell. I'm still just as excited now about it as I was then. I fail to remember how you "put me in my place" over this. I put my money where my mouth is and invested quite a bit. All signs are still pointing up. But whatever makes you feel like a big boy...

But I'm the "emotional one?" Quite contraire. You're the one that is making blanket assertions and mindlessly droning on against unions, often with "facts" you cannot substantiate...

They are observations Nick, you hysterical woman. I cite facts and news stories where applicable. As do you. You really get sensitive at times man..

I might also remind you that you were the first one to lose your temper and resort to the "flamefesting." Pot teakettle...

Complete bullshit sir. I left this place for a while because of the retarded style of flaming you and others get involved in. I don't ever throw the first flame. If someone (usually you) throws some sort of retarded emotional flame on something that doesn't need it, I respond in kind. Of that I am guilty. But I rarely bag on someone who didn't bag on me first.

Usually what happens is I bag on something that you get sensitive about (i.e. unions) then you start flaming. Then you add in emotional statements that you attribute to me that I never said at all (i.e. You think this, well than you must think this!!-always with the exclamation for some strange reason).

You call my bagging on something (based on my own perceptions and facts to support my arguments) "emotive" but I see it as the opposite. If you could be a bit more dispassionate, we could have more productive arguments.

I think your a reasonably intelligent guy and you bring a lot to these discussions, but that type of thing is really draining

[GAR]

Please tell me how fixing up said ratholes is:

Investing in the "green economy"

However, it does pay back the democratic base in spades.

You must be referring to the Brown Economy the Dems placate to..

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/S%C3%AD_se_puede

For every dollar a Mexican saves an employer hiring illegals, it generates a debit of 10 in supportive services from the State of California, and I want these fuckers rounded up and deported:

police
fire
medic/ambulatory care
emergency room
welfare
AFDC
WIC
County Social Services
Jail/Prison/Parole
school & education
public transit
public highways

.. because if they are here in this country, they use these services.

[Big Train]

I might also remind you that you were the first one to lose your temper and resort to the "flamefesting." Pot teakettle...

Further, just look at this thread. Post #7 I make my statement against the stimulus bill. I wasn't flaming any other poster and certainly was not flaming you. Yet, because I mentioned unions (a great benefactor of this stimulus, it is what it is, so I kind of have to mention it), you get all bunched up and come out with an emotional comeback about my state and Enron, which has nothing to do with my post at all.

Rest my case..

[Nickdfresh]

Further, just look at this thread. Post #7 I make my statement against the stimulus bill. I wasn't flaming any other poster and certainly was not flaming you. Yet, because I mentioned unions (a great benefactor of this stimulus, it is what it is, so I kind of have to mention it), you get all bunched up and come out with an emotional comeback about my state and Enron, which has nothing to do with my post at all.

Rest my case..

Meh. You need to take a deep breath and have a drink or smoke a commemorative Micheal Phelps bong hit or something...

You did in fact call me a shithead or something. And you are way too emotional. Have you gone Emo on us?

[kwame k]

You must be referring to the Brown Economy the Dems placate to..

For every dollar a Mexican saves an employer hiring illegals, it generates a debit of 10 in supportive services from the State of California, and I want these fuckers rounded up and deported:

.. because if they are here in this country, they use these services.

That's who you remind me of si-gar...........just came to be.

In 1929, President Hoover authorized the Mexican Repatriation program. To combat rampant unemployment, the burden on municipal aid services, and remove people seen as usurpers of American jobs, the program was largely a forced migration of an estimated 500,000 Mexicans and Mexican Americans to Mexico. Link

I even used Wikipedia in your honor!









































Remember si-gar Feburary is Black History Month!

[Big Train]

Meh. You need to take a deep breath and have a drink or smoke a commemorative Micheal Phelps bong hit or something...

You did in fact call me a shithead or something. And you are way too emotional. Have you gone Emo on us?

Ha ha...ok Nick. Meh, is all you got.

Not emotional at all, just get tired of yours.

I'm done with this one though, other things we can discuss.