So Obama is suddenly proud of his middle name ??

[Guitar Shark]

Declare them as pointless wars and get out of there. The chaos there is in major part from them being there.


What did you ask of Bush back then, being honest?

I believe Obama has already done what you asked. He has indicated that troops will be withdrawn by August 2010. It is not the sort of thing that can be done immediately. Now, you may disagree with his timetable, but cutting off funding completely is impossible, and withdrawing immediately would almost certainly cause the region to fall back into chaos. It was a stupid idea for us to go there in the first place, but it would be just as stupid to pull out right now. I think Obama is doing this the right way, but reasonable minds may differ.

[Andy Taylor]

I think all of the current wars are meaningless so unless he's talking about withdrawing from all three countries I don't find him to be sincere. My view of it is entirely different:

[sadaist]

It is not the sort of thing that can be done immediately.

cutting off funding completely is impossible

withdrawing immediately would almost certainly cause the region to fall back into chaos.

2006 no one believed the people who said these very same things.

[Blaze]

This is boring. My middle name sometimes is JoJo.
I like my middle name and the person I got it from

[Blaze]

<object width="660" height="525"><param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube-nocookie.com/v/-6G7MkBMVxE&hl=en&fs=1&color1=0x234900&color2=0x4e9 e00&border=1"></param><param name="allowFullScreen" value="true"></param><param name="allowscriptaccess" value="always"></param><embed src="http://www.youtube-nocookie.com/v/-6G7MkBMVxE&hl=en&fs=1&color1=0x234900&color2=0x4e9 e00&border=1" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" allowscriptaccess="always" allowfullscreen="true" width="660" height="525"></embed></object>

[Nickdfresh]

I think all of the current wars are meaningless so unless he's talking about withdrawing from all three countries I don't find him to be sincere. My view of it is entirely different:

Yes. But when you grow up and actually learn to reason and think about things, you'll realize that 140,000 troops, hundreds of armored fighting vehicles, thousands of trucks, and billion$ in other equipment cannot instantaneously be beamed back to the US and a withdrawal is one of the most difficult things to plan...


But why let facts stop you now?

[Nickdfresh]

2006 no one believed the people who said these very same things.

Like who?

[FORD]

<object width="660" height="525"><param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/v/OF4LKc-zslo&hl=en&fs=1&rel=0&color1=0x234900&color2=0x4e9 e00&border=1"></param><param name="allowFullScreen" value="true"></param><param name="allowscriptaccess" value="always"></param><embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/OF4LKc-zslo&hl=en&fs=1&rel=0&color1=0x234900&color2=0x4e9 e00&border=1" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" allowscriptaccess="always" allowfullscreen="true" width="660" height="525"></embed></object>

[Blaze]

Cute!

only met her once and made a special trip to meet her.
I wish I had a picture to share.
I cannot describe the picture I visualize.
Thanks you.....

[Andy Taylor]

Yes. But when you grow up and actually learn to reason and think about things, you'll realize that 140,000 troops, hundreds of armored fighting vehicles, thousands of trucks, and billion$ in other equipment cannot instantaneously be beamed back to the US and a withdrawal is one of the most difficult things to plan...


But why let facts stop you now?

Thanks for the republican arguments of yester year.

But Obama is boosting atleast two of the Bush wars. It's not just Iraq. Go ahead now and yada about how that is a legitimate war. These non right-left wing ears care not.

[ELVIS]

Neither mine...

Did he ever mention why we are in Pakastan ??

[bueno bob]

Well, to my ears, Obama has more than clearly indicated that we are on a path to Iraq withdrawl. Which is far better than Bush's parting stance of "Iraq's a problem for future generations to solve, but in 100 years, everybody's going to love me."

There is, of course, a right way to go about this and a wrong way to go about withdrawl. A timed removal is the appropriate measure. Consider - Bush went in whooping and hollering about WMDs and liberation of the oppressed and deposed the leader of the country, throwing the governing body into a clusterfuck because, well damnit, they deserved democracy (whether they wanted it or not is kinda irrelevant at this point).

A good portion of the country is still in ruin and the presence of America in Iraq actually ATTRACTED terrorism to the country itself (both local and visiting), which is easily one of the three biggest problems facing Iraq.

Of course, I could pontificate on how the dismissal of the Iraq armed forces from active duty in this endeavor turned them against us and made our job rebuilding about seven times harder than it needed to be, but anybody who knows anything about what's going on there knows this already. You can't swoop into a country and take away one of the best jobs going there (and trust me, being in the Iraq military is one of the ABSOLUTE best careers anybody can have - the U.S. jumps into their country and says "You're no longer needed, go home"? Yeah, that was a brilliant tactical decision...).

Because of that, and because of the trashed state Iraq is currently in (both it's government and as a place for the people who live there), there's no way to just pack our shit up and leave in the middle of the night and say "Y'all done been liberated! See ya!". That's been readily apparent since 2006, if not before. Rebuilding properly and allowing further time for their own government to establish itself is essential at this point, not only to Iraq as a country but as a step towards reestablishing our own reputation worldwide.

The realistic problem of this is that their own government needs to be encouraged to actually BE more democratic and less tyrannical in it's day to day business practices, but that's another story for another post. Point of the matter is, there's two ways to go about doing anything, right and wrong. The wrong's been done already and there's no sense in adding more to that pile.

[bueno bob]

Thanks for the republican arguments of yester year.

But Obama is boosting atleast two of the Bush wars. It's not just Iraq. Go ahead now and yada about how that is a legitimate war. These non right-left wing ears care not.

Nobody's saying it's a "legitimate" war, trust me on that. It's very simple, there's a right way to get out of there and a wrong way. Getting out is the right thing to do, but there's a way to go about that and a way not to.

[bueno bob]

For clarification, do you mean my thinking is being rushed into a judgment? Or my thinking is in line with Rush Limbaugh? I suppose an argument could be made for both. But only time will tell if Obamas decisions now are going to do what the left predicts or the what the right predicts. (fuck, you got me sounding like a Spammy song)

Well, I originally meant as in Limbaugh, but I suppose you're right - both arguments could be made to fit.

Thanks for the thanks, though

[Andy Taylor]

Nobody's saying it's a "legitimate" war, trust me on that. It's very simple, there's a right way to get out of there and a wrong way. Getting out is the right thing to do, but there's a way to go about that and a way not to.

I don't mean Iraq, but the other two ones. You're right about not pulling out without some of the mess being cleared up in Iraq.