Cash for Clunkers

[Nickdfresh]

The fusion doesn't get 28mpg,

The hybrid does.

the Fiesta isn't sold here,

It will be soon, in fact I believe it is here this month. I've seen the promo launch demo cars (leased to contest winners for free) on the roads here already...

...and I was talking about cars, not the Escape. So if you want to buy a car and get $4500, Ford offers the Focus - that's it. GM has only one, also. Some piece of shit made by daewoo that I don't remember the name of.

You can still get $3500 on many of their vehicles, and the domestics tend to have bigger rebates aside from the gov money which makes them plenty competitive in price...

GM also makes the Cobalt, not just the Aveo (Daewoo shit is right). And what are you comparing these too? Honda makes the Civic and the Fit, and the Insight isn't all that common or a big seller. Toyota makes the Corolla, Yaris, and yes the Prius, but again the hybrids are going to be more expensive...

First, irrelevant to the topic. Either the legislation was designed to help the companies in this market or it wasn't.

Well then it did, as it cut GMs and Chrysler's losses, just like it cut Toyota's losses. And Ford turned a profit...

Second, you have to stop harping about a $20k Diesel subcompact and comparing it to the small car market in the U.S. Give it up. The Fiesta is interesting, but it's not a silver bullet.

The Fiesta will be gas powered (in the US as we get one boring engine to Europe's three or four per model), and what the fuck are you talking about? I'm comparing it to like cars such as the Fit and Yaris. There are in fact a domestic competitor in nearly every class. The problem is that they are afterthought cars. For instance, the Focus is a totally different car in Europe as it was extensively upgraded in 2005 over there and is the darling of the critical, cynical UK auto press. The Focus here is essentially the same car since 1998 with slightly tweaked sheet metal. In a way, it makes the car far cheaper to produce and more profitable for Ford, but that is bad for long term viability.

The Cobalt is in the same basket, it's essentially the last generation Opel Astra from the late 1990s (Saturn uses the current one). GM could have done better than that, but chose the cheap and boring way out. It's still a cheap, serviceable car. But boring and outdated to be sure...

It should be said that both are correcting the above as the new Chevy Cruz (replaces the Cobalt) will be out next year and the third generation Ford Focus should be out next year and will be a far more stylish car with better powertrains...

[Nickdfresh]

Dem, GOP leaders: Senate will extend ‘clunkers’
But Republicans want to make changes to House-passed version of bill
The Associated Press
updated 4:07 p.m. ET, Tues., Aug 4, 2009

WASHINGTON - The Senate will vote to extend the popular "cash-for-clunkers" program before going home on Friday, Majority Leader Harry Reid declared Tuesday in a strong signal the government won't let the trade-in rebates die under the surging demand that has almost exhausted federal backing.

Reid's GOP counterpart, Mitch McConnell of Kentucky, predicted his party would not block a vote and "the matter will be completed." But Republicans' acquiescence depended on whether Reid would allow them to try to make changes to the House-passed version of the bill — and that could slow down the legislation anew.

"We'll pass cash for clunkers before we leave here," Reid told reporters after Democrats lunched at the White House with President Barack Obama, who has pushed hard for the Senate to add $2 billion to the program.

The House voted for the additional money last week.

Senate approval of a House-passed measure would send a $2 billion extension of the program to the White House for President Barack Obama's signature.

Uncertainties aside, the comments by Reid and Senate Republicans added up to a potential path to passage for legislation extending the program before it runs out of money at the end of the week, when the Senate recesses.

Back on Capitol Hill at midday, Sen. Jim DeMint, a conservative Republican from South Carolina, told reporters he did not intend to block the legislation.

"It's not my intention right now," he said.

Democrats as well as Republicans had raised concerns about an extension of the program, and it was not clear how those problems might be dealt with in future bills. Some lawmakers wanted tougher emissions standards, and some Democrats said the program should be limited to lower-income car-owners. Republicans raised concerns about cost.

Under the program, car-owners may trade in their old models for new cars that achieve significantly higher gas mileage. The federal subsidies total up to $4,500.

Transportation Secretary Ray LaHood said the popular program has allowed thousands of Americans to buy a new car at time when the economy is still in a recession and needs a boost in consumer spending.

"I think the last thing any politician wants to do is cut off the opportunity for somebody who wants to get a rebate to buy a new automobile," said LaHood, a former Republican congressman from Illinois.

Republican Sen. Lindsey Graham of South Carolina predicted that the Senate would approve it. "I hope it comes out of the stimulus program and doesn't add to the debt," Graham said in an interview on NBC's "Today" show. "I think the Senate will act this week and get some of the clunkers off the road."

On Monday, the White House had warned that the program could come to an abrupt halt Friday if the Senate didn't act favorably on a bill passed by the House last week transferring $2 billion to the program from an economic stimulus account that had been set aside to subsidize renewable energy. The infusion of new money would carry the program through September, said White House Press Secretary Robert Gibbs.

Through early Tuesday, the clunkers program had recorded 157,000 transactions worth $664 million. Eighty-three percent of the vehicles traded in were trucks or SUVs, while 60 percent of the vehicles purchased were passengers cars, for an average increase in fuel efficiency of 61 percent, he said.

Backers of the program picked up support from three other lawmakers who wanted the program limited to the purchase of even more fuel-efficient vehicles.

The fuel efficiency gains helped sway Democrats Dianne Feinstein of California and Chuck Schumer of New York, and Republican Susan Collins of Maine, who had complained that smaller rebates of $3,500 were going to people buying new cars that get as little as 4 more miles per gallon than the gas-guzzlers they traded in.

The three lawmakers said administration officials told them an additional 100,000 to 130,000 were expected to be processed to reach the $1 billion set aside. Another $2 billion was expected to generate the sale of about 500,000 more vehicles.

Car companies said the clunkers program was helping their bottom line. Ford said its sales rose 2.4 percent in July from the same month last year, its first year-over-year increase since November 2007, while Chrysler Group LLC posted a smaller year-over-year sales drop compared with recent months, helped by "clunkers" deals. Other automakers showed gains, giving ammunition to supporters of the car rebate program.

The Ford Focus is a leading replacement vehicle. General Motors Co., Chrysler Group LLC and Ford Motor Co. accounted for 47 percent of the new vehicles purchased.

Most consumers are buying smaller, more fuel efficient vehicles under the program, according to a list of the top-10 selling cars released by the National Highway Traffic Safety Administration, which is administering cash for clunkers.

That includes Honda Civics, Toyota Corollas and Dodge Calibers. The Toyota Prius hybrid, which gets 46 miles per gallon according to EPA estimates, is the fourth best-selling car. There is one SUV on the list, the Ford Escape, which also comes in a hybrid model that can get up to 32 miles per gallon.

Many Republicans remained skeptical, raising objections to the additional costs amid questions about the management of the overwhelmed car rebate program. The GOP holdouts said the government has failed to provide enough data about how well the initial funding has worked and should wait until the fall to provide more.

Many dealers said they were concerned they could be on the hook for some of the money if the Senate fails to act. John McEleney, chairman of the National Automobile Dealers Association, said his organization was warning dealers there were no guarantees they would be reimbursed for sales they make under the program this week. McEleney said he has stopped offering cash-for-clunkers deals at his own Iowa dealerships.

But dealers are still trying to lock up more money. NADA and the American International Automobile Dealers contacted thousands of dealerships, telling them to bombard the Senate with phone calls and e-mails.

Car dealers typically support Republicans and are a potent political force, contributing more than $9 million to federal candidates for the 2008 elections.

Copyright 2009 The Associated Press. All rights reserved.

GoogleAP

[Nitro Express]

Cash for clunkers just gives people an excuse to get another loan to buy something they don't need with money they don't have. Gee. Isn't this what caused the problem in the first place?

[Nitro Express]

Can I trade my aging mother in law in for a hot babe?

[ELVIS]

Have you been to a grocery store, shopping mall, strip mall, Target, or elementary school parking lot in the last 10 years? Mostly BIG vehicles. Not because small ones weren't available, but because that's what people chose to buy. That's what they wanted.

Choice ??

You cannot have choice!!!

HAHAHAHAHAHA...

[ELVIS]

Cash for clunkers just gives people an excuse to get another loan to buy something they don't need with money they don't have. Gee. Isn't this what caused the problem in the first place?

Yep...

[Igosplut]

I saw a picture in the local newspaper today about the program showing some of the cars traded in. There were mostly S10 blazers, the small cherokee's, and a smattering of older Ford/Merc type station wagons. Hardly what I'd call "Gas Guzzlers" .

Not that there's none, but no full-size SUVs, large trucks (1/2 3/4 ton, ect) or anything that IMO would affect the impact on consumption. I think mostly this is more about getting the auto industry moving than anything else....

[ELVIS]

Yeah, like someone is going to give away their truck (that they may very well NEED) for $4500 that they have already paid (and are going to pay many times over) to the government in bailouts and taxes...

[Big Train]

Cash for clunkers just gives people an excuse to get another loan to buy something they don't need with money they don't have. Gee. Isn't this what caused the problem in the first place?

Yup just like those motherfucking veterans of WWII, getting those GI bills that funded the housing and baby booms of the 50's. I mean fuck, they couldn't afford it and there have been no positive benefits since.

The lesson is the government should never try to help anyone, ever.

[ELVIS]

At least not the Federal Government...

The bulk of the issues Oblamma has outlined (and is determined to do) are State Government matters...

Handing it over to the Feds equals step by step towards socialism...

[Big Train]

Healthcare (while I don't think we should get involved) is a national matter.
Industry is a national matter (the auto industry does operate across state lines).

While I agree with your theory of his purpose, I disagree that he is getting into state matters. The only local thing he has stepped in is the Cambridge Police Department.

[ELVIS]

Although many industries operate across state lines, they still must abide by each particular states laws...

The Feds only complicate matters and charge (or steal) big bucks...

[Blackflag]

Yup just like those motherfucking veterans of WWII, getting those GI bills that funded the housing and baby booms of the 50's. I mean fuck, they couldn't afford it and there have been no positive benefits since.

The lesson is the government should never try to help anyone, ever.

Yeah...a $4500 coupon for a new car is just like the GI Bill... This logic in this forum is mind-boggling.

[Blackflag]

Healthcare (while I don't think we should get involved) is a national matter.
Industry is a national matter (the auto industry does operate across state lines).

Just because something occurs in every state doesn't make it a national matter. Otherwise, everything is federal except for alligator populations. Health care for texans is texas' business. There's no reason somebody from Maine should pay for it.

[LoungeMachine]

Just because something occurs in every state doesn't make it a national matter. Otherwise, everything is federal except for alligator populations. Health care for texans is texas' business. There's no reason somebody from Maine should pay for it.

Naive.

We pay for other states' issues all the time.

Farm subsidies for example. EPA cleanups.

We're the United State for a reason.