Federal Judge Rules ObamaCare Unconstitutional

**Nitro Express** · 02-01-2011, 04:11 PM

Federal today is the same thing as corporate. The Federal government makes the mandates, connected corporations reap the profits, government agencies do the policing. That's not capitalism, that's corporate fascism. Capitalism is individuals starting businesses and competing in an open market. You can't do that when the FDA, OSHA, or the EPA shut you down and the government lets Meggacorp X have the remaining market.

**Kristy** · 02-01-2011, 04:17 PM

Originally posted by BigBadBrian

Profit and greed are not the same thing. Profit breeds excellence.

If profit "breeds" anything it would be maintaining interest in the status quo. Tell me, where was BP's "excellence" in the Gulf last summer?

And for fuck's sake, quit using titles like "Marxist" for insults. I highly doubt you ever read a single dissertation by Marx and Engles, much less understand a single word of it.

**Nitro Express** · 02-01-2011, 04:24 PM

There was an element of charity in America's healthcare past. Like I said charitable organizations started many of the hospitals. County hospitals were pretty good as well. You have to pay your overhead and pay your employees. Someone always pays because the medical suppliers want to get paid, the medical staff can't feed their families working for free. There just seems to be an element of social ethics that existed that is gone now. There was no need for big brother because an element in society seemed to regulate itself pretty well.

One way to solve the healthcare problem is offer generous tax breaks for hospital donations. Then run hospitals for the needy with that tax money. Then you put an income requirement on the services of these hospitals. People above a certain income can't use the services since they can afford their own healthcare. Of course if this system is managed poorly, it will go to shit in a heartbeat and management seems to be one of the major problems in the government right now.

If there is too much greed across the board then the whole system and society as a whole breaks down. Maybe we are at that point. Society has degenerated to the point where it just doesn't function anymore.

**ELVIS** · 02-01-2011, 05:09 PM

Louisiana maintains a Charity hospital system that serves the state quite well...

**Jesus Christ** · 02-01-2011, 06:58 PM

Originally posted by ELVIS

Louisiana maintains a Charity hospital system that serves the state quite well...

So would ye support a single payer solution if it was done state by state (as the Canadians hath done it)

**Nitro Express** · 02-01-2011, 07:07 PM

Originally posted by ELVIS

Louisiana maintains a Charity hospital system that serves the state quite well...

Obamacare makes such programs illegal and will dismantle them. It makes it illegal for a doctor to offer their services for free. It actually kills charity.

Everyone yaks about single payer. My question is single payer to whom? Who owns the monopoly?

**Jesus Christ** · 02-01-2011, 07:16 PM

Originally posted by Nitro Express

Obamacare makes such programs illegal and will dismantle them. It makes it illegal for a doctor to offer their services for free. It actually kills charity.

Everyone yaks about single payer. My question is single payer to whom? Who owns the monopoly?

I will answer thy question with another question.

What are the first three words of thy nation's constitution?

**Nitro Express** · 02-01-2011, 07:23 PM

We the people will pay for it. My question is who is going to be the Haliburton of healthcare? Who wrote the bill and who benefits? If it's so great why did they pass it in secret? Because there was stuff in it they knew we would hate and the majority of us didn't want it anyways.

For being the son of God I could sell you the Brooklin Bridge. No wonder Satan never got nailed to a cross and has all the fun. He was the smart one.

**FORD** · 02-01-2011, 08:59 PM

Originally posted by BigBadBrian

Remember the highway bridge that collapsed in MN recently? Yeah, our infrastructure is doing really well.

Republican governor Tim Pawlenty deserves the blame for that. He knew the bridge was in sorry condition and refused to repair it. The fact that he's even remotely considered as a Repuke presidential nominee is sickening.

**FORD** · 02-01-2011, 09:01 PM

Originally posted by Nitro Express

For being the son of God I could sell you the Brooklin Bridge. No wonder Satan never got nailed to a cross and has all the fun. He was the smart one.

**knuckleboner** · 02-01-2011, 09:13 PM

anybody yet mention that this is just ONE federal court ruling? there have been 3 others. 2 for and 2 against. so, truly, it's not exactly unconstitutional just yet...

**sadaist** · 02-01-2011, 09:42 PM

Originally posted by knuckleboner

anybody yet mention that this is just ONE federal court ruling? there have been 3 others. 2 for and 2 against. so, truly, it's not exactly unconstitutional just yet...

This one was the largest, representing 26 states. The only thing I really take from all of this is that once it hits the Supreme Court, there is a good chance it will be ruled unconstitutional. If so far all the cases ruled in favor of Obamacare, the outlook for repeal would be dismal at best.

If it gets repealed, the Obama spent his first term doing absolutely nothing but wasting time while jobs and the economy floundered. This is (to libs) his one big achievement. If he loses it, the outlook for his re-election does not look good.

So........does he take that chance? Or does he get together with Repubs to write up a fresh bill to replace this one?

**FORD** · 02-01-2011, 10:07 PM

Originally posted by sadaist

This is (to libs) his one big achievement. If he loses it, the outlook for his re-election does not look good.

Actually, no. To "libs" this was a fucking tragic sellout and NOT what we voted for at all, and the mandate in particular was the polar opposite of what we wanted.

Best outcome right now would be to kill the mandate, keep the minor "reforms" against the insurance criminals, and pass a public option, because if the insurance industry is going to be allowed to exist at all, they should have competition to keep them honest. Best long term solution is to pass HR676 (even if it has to be snuck into some fucking dumb right wing bill as a "stealth" amendment ) and join the rest of the planet in the 21st century.

**Nitro Express** · 02-01-2011, 10:18 PM

Originally posted by FORD

Actually, no. To "libs" this was a fucking tragic sellout and NOT what we voted for at all, and the mandate in particular was the polar opposite of what we wanted.

Best outcome right now would be to kill the mandate, keep the minor "reforms" against the insurance criminals, and pass a public option, because if the insurance industry is going to be allowed to exist at all, they should have competition to keep them honest. Best long term solution is to pass HR676 (even if it has to be snuck into some fucking dumb right wing bill as a "stealth" amendment ) and join the rest of the planet in the 21st century.

Damn straight. I want to know who the Goldman Sachs and General Electric of the health insurance companies wrote the bill. Everyone figured Obama was this big socialist guy and he would sign a good socialist bill. Instead he signed something Dick Chenney would love.

**knuckleboner** · 02-02-2011, 01:48 AM

Originally posted by sadaist

This one was the largest, representing 26 states. The only thing I really take from all of this is that once it hits the Supreme Court, there is a good chance it will be ruled unconstitutional. If so far all the cases ruled in favor of Obamacare, the outlook for repeal would be dismal at best.

If it gets repealed, the Obama spent his first term doing absolutely nothing but wasting time while jobs and the economy floundered. This is (to libs) his one big achievement. If he loses it, the outlook for his re-election does not look good.

So........does he take that chance? Or does he get together with Repubs to write up a fresh bill to replace this one?

no, there's no chance he gets together with the republicans. the republicans aren't actually serious about reform. there's a reason that their first bill was a complete repeal. not a repeal AND replace. they wanted the talking point to say that they voted on a simple, one-page repeal bill. and they did. the rest is worthless. tort reform offers minimal savings. necessary? maybe. drop in the bucket? definitely. and we know they hate the individual mandate. great. so how do they get people with pre-existing conditions covered without it? government subsidies? unlikely. forcing the private companies to carry those people without the additional customers the mandate brought in? unlikely. pretend pre-existing fixes? yep, odds are.

no, there's no chance the president backtracks. especially because the public is still very much on the fence about whether it favors full repeal. and mind you, that's after the republicans full-bore attacks. the longer the legislation shows good results: a) my college grad can stay on my insurance until he gets a job? b) i can switch jobs and not worry that my wife's breast cancer won't be covered? c) my grandma's preventative care has no copays? d) my small business gets tax credits for health insurance? etc., wil result in more favorable positions.

the only real question is whether the mandate is an unconstitutional mandate, or whether it acts more like a tax.

Federal Judge Rules ObamaCare Unconstitutional

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