...And democracy dies in Wisconsin.

[sadaist]

All in all, no matter which side you are on...this is a great thing happening. We needed to have this topic debated heartily and with vigor & passion. This has put the topic right smack on the table for everyone to discuss and debate. History shows that when that happens, the results down the road are typically better than they were when we started.

Either way, all the debating we have going on here is fun for me. I admit I have learned some about unions & collective bargaining and how the government operates that I didn't know before.

Funny, this kind of stuff we were forced to do in high school to educate. Now no one is forcing us and we actively seek it out.

[BigBadBrian]

Chardonay and Riesling and of course it depends on what wine and winery. Some california wines are shit.

True enough!

Actually, I'm slowly obtaining the stuff necessary to brew my own beer and make my own wine.

Links:

Homebrew USA

Wine and Cake Hobbies

[Nitro Express]

All in all, no matter which side you are on...this is a great thing happening. We needed to have this topic debated heartily and with vigor & passion. This has put the topic right smack on the table for everyone to discuss and debate. History shows that when that happens, the results down the road are typically better than they were when we started.

Either way, all the debating we have going on here is fun for me. I admit I have learned some about unions & collective bargaining and how the government operates that I didn't know before.

Funny, this kind of stuff we were forced to do in high school to educate. Now no one is forcing us and we actively seek it out.

How it works is everyone is out for their own interests period. All this talk about God and country is bullshit. People vote their pocket books and if they can't make a living here whether in the public or private sector, they will go off to another country to find their thing. The reality is the world's richest people have made deals with each other and have just gotten richer. That's called globalism. If you are a globalist, it's wonderful but if you are 97% of the rest of the population it's not so great because they will take more and more out of you. Most countries have two main camps who think they have all the solutions. They argue and fight while the richest 3% exploit this and continue to grab more power no matter what group is in control because they have enough money to buy any politician off. The human race is too corrupt and too self interested to fix any of it so don't get your hopes up too high. Just grab what little piece you can and club the other mother fucker who tries to take it. Might as well shoot your children because they don't have much of a future anyways. Poor dumb bastards but spend all the money you saved up for them because Ford wants to steal it.

[Nitro Express]

The Democrats are just pissed because the Republicans were smart enough to steal the wealth before they did.

[BigBadBrian]

Good. That's a step in the right direction.

Next step will be to recall every single one of those criminal pieces of human shit.

Need a tissue?

Onward to Ohio, Indiana, and New Jersey! Time to whittle down Public Union Collective Bargaining Rights there also.

[PETE'S BROTHER]

MADISON, Wis. -- The Republican-dominated state Assembly passed the controversial bill on Thursday that would take away most collective bargaining rights from public workers.
The state's Assembly approved Republican Gov. Scott Walker's explosive proposal by a 53-42 margin on Thursday.

[FORD]

Need a tissue?

Onward to Ohio, Indiana, and New Jersey! Time to whittle down Public Union Collective Bargaining Rights there also.

SIEG HEIL !!!

All hail the new one party corporatist state. Abolish the unions!
Drill for oil! Fuck the environment.
12 hours a day, 7 days a week, $4 an hour
Koch Brothers Uber Alles
Ein Reich, Ein Fuhrer, Ein FAUX News!!!

[sadaist]

Drill for oil! Fuck the environment.

Wait. Isn't the oil we are getting now being drilled somewhere? So you mean protect the US environment and who gives a shit if Arab countries screw up theirs? I believe we could drill it much more cleanly here to protect the environment than they can anywhere else in the world. Especially with all the bureaucracy & scrutiny that would be involved drilling here.

Plus it creates US jobs. Lots of jobs. Good paying jobs at that too.

Drill more here. Build more refineries here. Be a little bit more self sufficient, gentler on the environment, and create jobs while lowering the costs of gasoline a little. I really don't see a down side here.

[Nitro Express]

Drill for oil! Fuck the environment.

Which brings us to Dick Cheney who got Halliburton an EPA exemption in 2005. To get at all this oil and gas they have to use a process called fracking. Now wells in Wyoming are showing up contaminated and some of the water is catching fire. But Halliburton is hiring and they ads on the radio all the time. So Dick doesn't even care about his home state but of course they aren't fracking Jackson Hole because Dick lives here.

[Nitro Express]

Bush needs an SS officer's cap because they have a skull and bones on it. Of course the Nazis were spit and polish. I hate to insult Nazi Germany by comparing Bush to it.

[FORD]

Putting aside the whole issue of invading other countries, and making up ridiculous lies about "terrorism" to excuse doing so for just a second, in terms of drilling for oil in and of itself, it's much more logical to do so in desert sand where there is little or no life than it is to destroy an entire ecological system such as BP's murder of the Gulf of Mexico, or the repeated attempts to destroy the Alaskan wildlife habitat.

The other "potential oil fields" on this continent are about as problematic, with the only way of getting to it it by using highly toxic and destructive methods of extracting it from rock (a sickening process also being used to acquire natural gas)

But none of that has anything to do with the KKKoch brothers assault on what's left of the middle class, does it?

[Nitro Express]

The reason Wisconsin has the problems it does is because the bankers have stolen the treasury. They have broken whole states and countries. This is an international problem and when it finally affects people personally they get angry and take to the streets. This is what Egypt and all of that is really about. The money has been looted. So even if you still have your union bargaining rights and state pensions, what good is it when the checks bounce? Wisconsin was robbed and it wasn't the unions that did it. It was the international bankers and their puppet politicians. There is X amount of money in the account and the public will only tolerate so much tax. In reality, all this rallying should be outside the Federal Reserve Bank and they should be hunting down Ben Bernanke. The governor of Wisconsin is small potatoes.

[Nitro Express]

Putting aside the whole issue of invading other countries, and making up ridiculous lies about "terrorism" to excuse doing so for just a second, in terms of drilling for oil in and of itself, it's much more logical to do so in desert sand where there is little or no life than it is to destroy an entire ecological system such as BP's murder of the Gulf of Mexico, or the repeated attempts to destroy the Alaskan wildlife habitat.

The other "potential oil fields" on this continent are about as problematic, with the only way of getting to it it by using highly toxic and destructive methods of extracting it from rock (a sickening process also being used to acquire natural gas)

But none of that has anything to do with the KKKoch brothers assault on what's left of the middle class, does it?

Koch are big oil guys and what we are seeing in Wisconsin and other states is the local result of a global banking ponzi scheme. The states spent like drunken sailors because they thought the economy was great when it was just a derivative ponzi scheme. Now it's melted down and they need a scape goat. So the new bad guys will be the Muslims. It used to be the communists and Hitler had the Jews to blame Germany's problems on. It's the same old game. It's just history repeating itself again.

The whole union thing is one leaf on the whole interconnected problem tree and in the end, it's not about religion or political ideology. it's about money. So get ready to see more media bashing of muslims and more fabricated terrorism scare tactics.

[Matt White]

Round #1: The Koch pupppet makes his move

Round #2: April 5th elections in Wisconsin

Round #3: Recall of 8 Repuke senators...well under way

round #4: Recal the Koch puppet in Nov................

Game on

[BigBadBrian]

Round #3: Recall of 8 Repuke senators...well under way

Game on indeed. Recall efforts are also underway for most, if not, all of the Dem-pussy WI state senators that cut and ran from their jobs and hid like little girls in IL. Democrats claimed "elections have consequences" when Obama won, where it was especially said about healthcare reform. They also have consequences at the state level. Don't you guys understand that a lot of states are flat broke with the cost of labor as a major reason?

You sound like FORD with all that Koch "puppet" nonsense. I guess you just don't realize how unions are buying Democrats' votes (where 98% of all union political donations are to Democrats) and how the union-thug leaders are getting wealthy off of their membership. How is that different than businesses and corporations?

For the record, I don't have a problem with unions in the priivate sector, although it could be successfully argued that they've done more harm than good in the last 40 years.

Public employees should not be allowed to be in a union, however. All they do is rape the taxpayer. If unions for public employees are so good, why doesn't your boy Obama support bargaining rights for Federal employees like some of the states have?