The Gun Control & Ballistics Thread

[BigBadBrian]

Best way I can explain about how fucked up it is for the US right now in the NRA's controlled (do not talk back to us) culture..........It is how the people that are insecure in the US (people that think the south won) hold their nuts. They cannot fist fight...so they resort to badly aimed guns to make them feel superior........A gun is a pussies way out.

Perhaps you'd like the title of the thread to be:

Radical Left-Wing & Registered Democrat, Obama Supporter, Occupy Black Bloc Member James E. Holmes Shoots Up Aurora Co Movie Theater

[BigBadBrian]

What pisses me off is how the media whores keep emphasizing that this had "no connection to terrorism".

Bullshit.

If you walk into a crowded room with body armor and a goddamn gas mask on, throw a gas bomb and then start shooting up the place, that is TERRORISM.

If you booby trap your apartment so many ways that the bomb squad has to evacuate the entire block before they can even look around the place, that is TERRORISM.

Have we been so brainwashed by the BCE/PNAC agenda hijacking of that term that we forgot what it actually means??

Or is it the fact that this sick little fuck was named "James Holmes" and not "Muhammad Achmed Bin Laden".

Because if the latter was his name, he would already be on a slow boat to Gitmo if he had merely farted loudly in the theater after eating too much hummus.

Just remember, FORD, your boy Obama called the shootings at FT Hood by an Islamoterrorist "workplace violence." Defending one of his own, I guess.

[ELVIS]

The idea that the government will go door-to-door asking for everyone's guns and arresting or killing everyone who doesn't in America is fucking ludicrous.

Ummm...

During Katrina, New Orleans was used to test such an "idea" and it was successful...

The GOVERMENT went to EVERY door in New Orleans and took every firearm they could find, leaving rsidents defenseless against thugs and looters, and the corrupt cops who murdered, raped, robbed auto delearships, jewelry stores and department stores, as well as every mom and pop store in the city...

[Nickdfresh]

Yeah because the M-16 is a select fire assault rifle. You turn the switch to auto and it goes automatic and you turn the switch to semi and it's one shot per trigger pull. Or with the M-16A1 you have the three round burst. If you have a Polish Tantal you have all three options. Full Automatic, Semi-Automatic, and Three Round Burst. I would hope the military trains to place single shots instead of just spraying and praying.

The M-16A2 is three-round-burst. It doesn't matter whether selective fire capable or not, a weapon designed around a lighter cartridge to kill large numbers of people at intermediate ranges is an assault weapon even on semi-auto...

[ELVIS]

Trying to reclassify weapons now, nick ??

[BigBadBrian]

The M-16A2 is three-round-burst. It doesn't matter whether selective fire capable or not, a weapon designed around a lighter cartridge to kill large numbers of people at intermediate ranges is an assault weapon even on semi-auto...

Semantics. You're either for the populace to keep and bear arms or you're not. I am.

What about you, Nick?

What about EVERYONE on this board? Where do YOU stand on the issue?

jhale, you've stated in other threads that conservative claims that liberals wanting to change the second amendment or deny the citizens the right to keep guns was just fear-mongering. Where do you stand NOW? FORD?

[baru911]

The M-16A2 is three-round-burst. It doesn't matter whether selective fire capable or not, a weapon designed around a lighter cartridge to kill large numbers of people at intermediate ranges is an assault weapon even on semi-auto...

A .223/5.56 round is a great round to KILL a rodent. It is NOT a good round to kill humans with. It will but it is not a good round to do it with. Just like most people can kill another person with a hammer. It is just not the best tool to do it with. The round was picked as it WOUNDS in battle. It takes 2 people to remove an injured man = 3 people off the battlefield. If a person is KILLED you deal with them after the engagement = 1 person off the battlefield. The round we used before moving to the 5.56 was a round that was much better suited to kill living beings over 170 lbs. It is why deer hunters use it.


For the modern battlefield the 5.56 round needs to be looked at so changes can be made.

[Nickdfresh]

Semantics. You're either for the populace to keep and bear arms or you're not. I am.

What about you, Nick?

Just like they should keep their cars: with appropriate restrictions, testing, records, and scrutiny of their mental qualifications...

What about EVERYONE on this board? Where do YOU stand on the issue?

Completely wrong thread to ask or address this...

[ELVIS]

Why should the government have a record of my guns when the 2nd amendment is for the citizens protection against a tyrannical government ??

[Nickdfresh]

A .223/5.56 round is a great round to KILL a rodent. It is NOT a good round to kill humans with.

Um, it's been known to explode into shards within 10-15 meters of hitting a man-sized target. So much so that Sweden tried to have the M-16/M193 round condemned as an illegal weapon of war--til they found their 7.62mm variation of the NATO round did the same sometimes...

It will but it is not a good round to do it with. Just like most people can kill another person with a hammer. It is just not the best tool to do it with. The round was picked as it WOUNDS in battle. It takes 2 people to remove an injured man = 3 people off the battlefield. If a person is KILLED you deal with them after the engagement = 1 person off the battlefield. For the modern battlefield it needs to be looked at so changes can be made.

Actually the round was picked when it was discovered that some U.S. infantry units were losing small-unit firefights because their M-14's couldn't keep up with very well equipped NVA/VC units carrying numbers of AKM's. ANd that despite the macho U.S. military mantra of "one shot, one kill", combat was largely about getting the mist ammo down range within a 200-300 meter kill zone...

[baru911]

Um, it's been known to explode into shards within 10-15 meters of hitting a man-sized target. So much so that Sweden tried to have the M-16/M193 round condemned as an illegal weapon of war--til they found their 7.62mm variation of the NATO round did the same sometimes...



Actually the round was picked when it was discovered that some U.S. infantry units were losing small-unit firefights because their M-14's couldn't keep up with very well equipped NVA/VC units carrying numbers of AKM's...

5.56 rounds tumble. They are designed to do that so they create a bigger WOUND channel. They don't explode. They may fragment when they hit bone. Again, the round isn't a good round to kill people. That is why there has been discussions about other rounds and us moving to them for about 5 to 7 years.

I was speaking about the 30-06. We used it in WWII and Korea. The US went to the 5.56 because it functioned in a jungle environment. M-14 were scraped due to the weight and length issues in a jungle environment when compared to the new plastic toy gun the military was working with and the ammo weight issues. The M-14 is an excellent rifle on the right battlefield.

[knuckleboner]

As a matter of fact, we don't appear to have this gruesome market cornered, not by a LONG shot.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Spree_killer

Damned if I don't see the UK, France, Germany, Japan, Sweden, China, South Korea, Australia, New Zealand, Switzerland, South Africa, Finland, the Netherlands, Norway and a few more on that list.

But it's just ignorant Southerners and the NRA Nazis, right?

of course, the U.S. homicide rate is HIGHER than all of those countries. so, sure, many countries have isolated incidents of gun massacre violence. but you're far more likely to be murdered in the U.S.:

homicides per 100,000 people:

uk: 1.2; france: 1.3; germany: 0.8; japan: 0.5; sweden: 1.0; china: 1.9; south korea: 2.8; australia: 1.2; new zealand: 1.5; switzerland: 0.7; south africa: finland: 2.3; netherlands: 1.1; norway: 0.6

U.S.: 5 homicides per 100,000 people.

in other words, you're more than twice as likely to be murdered in the U.S. than in any of the countries you named. and you think the far greater accessibility of firearms in the U.S. has no effect on that?

oecd country homicide rates china homicide rate

[Nickdfresh]

5.56 rounds tumble. They are designed to do that so they create a bigger WOUND channel. They don't explode. They may fragment when they hit bone. Again, the round isn't a good round to kill people. That is why there has been discussions about other rounds and us moving to them for about 5 to 7 years.

Largely a myth, and certainly they were never "designed" to tumble. It was thought the high velocity of the round would compensate for lessor mass causing hydro-shock in the human body. In any case, small caliber ammo at a high velocity can cause massive ballistic damage. The Carcano rifle Oswald used to kill Kennedy is a pretty good example of this....

I was speaking about the 30-06. We used it in WWII and Korea. The US went to the 5.56 because it functioned in a jungle environment. M-14 were scraped due to the weight and length issues in a jungle environment when compared to the new plastic toy gun the military was working with and the ammo weight issues. The M-14 is an excellent rifle on the right battlefield.

The M-14 is an excellent arm and it never should have fully been removed from service, but the wood swelled in the jungle humidity and the fact that few were full auto due to lack of controlability hastened its demise. The military simply needed a match for the AK...

[BigBadBrian]

uk: 1.2; france: 1.3; germany: 0.8; japan: 0.5; sweden: 1.0; china: 1.9; south korea: 2.8; australia: 1.2; new zealand: 1.5; switzerland: 0.7; south africa: finland: 2.3; netherlands: 1.1; norway: 0.6

U.S.: 5 homicides per 100,000 people.

in other words, you're more than twice as likely to be murdered in the U.S. than in any of the countries you named.

I wonder what the US homicide rate is when certain "cultural" aspects are taken into account?

[Nitro Express]

The 5.56 NATO round is actually different than the .223 Remington round the movie joker shooter dude used. The NATO round has a heavier bullet and has a faster velocity than the .223 Remington. Of course with the .223 Remington there are all different types of bullets and bullet weights it can be loaded with. The round is used for small game hunting and target shooting. I would say the shooter ordered up a bunch of the cheap steel cased Russian made stuff looking at the number of rounds he purchased. It probably was full metal jacketed stuff but not military spec ammo. Why the military went to smaller rounds is a soldier could carry more ammo and it's easer to control on full auto as Nick has said.

I believe some of the US Marines special forces have used the M-14 in the middle east theater. All you would have to do is replace the wood stock with a modern polymer one. The M-14 is basically an improved M1 Garand with full auto capability. The Garand had the problem of ejecting the clip and that made a noise alerting the enemy you were out of ammo. The M-14 has a box magazine. I believe the gas actuator and bolt are very similar to a Garand.

The Israelis used the FAL which is another excellent 7.62 NATO weapon but they had the same problem. It was uncontrollable on full auto and it was clear the enemy using the Kaloshnikov design had an advantage. So they came out with the Galile rifle based on the AK and firing a smaller round. Most fire fights happen at closer range and a smaller round is adequate. Plus, a shorter rifle is nicer to go in and out of vehicles with. Then some nations like the UK and France have even shortened their rifles even more by going to a bull pup design which puts the receiver in the buttstock. Since units are motorized and fighting takes place at shorter ranges the rifles have gotten shorter.